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Thread: Forced race line removal

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3dGenius View Post
    Even playing field?
    I don't think it would even the playing field, since the racing line makes who uses it slower, but I agree with a option to force it off. One thing that could be done is to flag the lobbies that do not allow it, so people who must have it wouldn't join... If not, some would race on the lobby just because they've joined and rear end the other players....
    Last edited by TheReaper GT; 10-08-2015 at 14:44.
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  2. #12
    WMD Member Fong74's Avatar
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    Good to know that Ian has this on his list. I also feel that the host should be able to turn it ON/OFF in a lobby.

    I second the even playing field point, too. The line is a driving aid like others (as stated in the post that convinced Ian to put this on his list), so the host should be able to define if its allowed or not. In training lobbies it can be present. In ranked league races e.g. it would be generally off for higher skilled drivers imo, who would otherwise start using it and get benefits out of it....thats my experience from Forza at least. Those aliens get benefits out of stuff, us human racers will never even think of
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  3. #13
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    It is curious, though... Every discussion I've seen about "the line" going back to Forza 2 has concluded that players who use the line are slower than players who don't. Yet, people talk about forcing it off to "even the playing field."

    If I normally do NOT use the line, forcing it off gives me a distinct advantage over every player who normally DOES use it... Hardly what I would call "evening the playing field."

    Not only that, but if I'm in a race with a bunch of players who normally use "the line," and it's forced off, those players will very likely be (unintentionally) causing crashes.

    Doesn't really sound like an "improvement" to multiplayer to me...
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  4. #14
    WMD Member kjay's Avatar
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    Fast drivers don't use the racing line and really shouldn't fear those that do.
    This is just another 'Control freak' issue.
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  5. #15
    WMD Member Ralph B's Avatar
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    Absolutely agree to the last point. I never use any assist, but don't have a problem ro race against people who do, as long it helps them to drive clean. Mostly those guys, who need to drive with assists are not amongst my real opponents. But when talking about it, I'd prefer an option "force mirrors on". Would help perhaps to stop slower drivers to block and cross the road blindly when a faster cars approaches from behind.
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  6. #16
    Superkart Pilot Flaw3dGenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOi TheReaper View Post
    I don't think it would even the playing field, since the racing line makes who uses it slower, but I agree with a option to force it off. One thing that could be done is to flag the lobbies that do not allow it, so people who must have it wouldn't join... If not, some would race on the lobby just because they've joined and rear end the other players....
    What about at night when you have no headlights while someone that uses the racing line can clearly see where they are going?
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3dGenius View Post
    What about at night when you have no headlights while someone that uses the racing line can clearly see where they are going?
    Well, if you don't have headlights you should go slower to the pits to fix it. But I understand your point.
    Last edited by TheReaper GT; 10-08-2015 at 21:59.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3dGenius View Post
    Never understood the logic of adding a line in racers as it means the people that use it will never learn the tracks.
    Exactly the experience I had using it for like half a hour because I didn't play a racing game in a century. Its ok to learn how the car reacts for your first few laps but you actually not learn the track at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Ente View Post
    If I normally do NOT use the line, forcing it off gives me a distinct advantage over every player who normally DOES use it... Hardly what I would call "evening the playing field."
    Not a smart argument IMO. You could just as well say that forbidding doping in sport is unfair because it gives the athlete that isn't relying on it an edge over one who does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Ente View Post
    It is curious, though... Every discussion I've seen about "the line" going back to Forza 2 has concluded that players who use the line are slower than players who don't. Yet, people talk about forcing it off to "even the playing field."
    My takeaway is that while the braking points and speeds indicated are not optimal if multiple drivers are not well experienced on a given track those with racing line on have a huge advantage. I for example spend last week learning Nordschleife for the community even but struggled to find optimal speed and breaking point for every corner, or more precise struggled to remember it all over those giant laps. With racing line I only would have needed to remember to take a few curves a bit more aggressive. A huge advantage in that situation IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Ente View Post
    Not only that, but if I'm in a race with a bunch of players who normally use "the line," and it's forced off, those players will very likely be (unintentionally) causing crashes.
    There shouldn't be a line in the first place! That aid just isn't designed in a way that it really leads to players over time driving better w/o it (like support wheels do), but forces those to keep on using them (like giving your kid a four wheel bike). The better alternative is to allow the usage of the none dynamic curve warnings including in the game.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Ente View Post
    If I normally do NOT use the line, forcing it off gives me a distinct advantage over every player who normally DOES use it... Hardly what I would call "evening the playing field."

    Quote Originally Posted by xxTheGoDxx View Post
    Not a smart argument IMO. You could just as well say that forbidding doping in sport is unfair because it gives the athlete that isn't relying on it an edge over one who does.
    It is curious, though... Every discussion I've seen about "the line" going back to Forza 2 has concluded that players who use the line are slower than players who don't. Yet, people talk about forcing it off to "even the playing field."

    Quote Originally Posted by xxTheGoDxx View Post
    My takeaway is that while the braking points and speeds indicated are not optimal if multiple drivers are not well experienced on a given track those with racing line on have a huge advantage. I for example spend last week learning Nordschleife for the community even but struggled to find optimal speed and breaking point for every corner, or more precise struggled to remember it all over those giant laps. With racing line I only would have needed to remember to take a few curves a bit more aggressive. A huge advantage in that situation IMO.
    Not only that, but if I'm in a race with a bunch of players who normally use "the line," and it's forced off, those players will very likely be (unintentionally) causing crashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by xxTheGoDxx View Post
    There shouldn't be a line in the first place! That aid just isn't designed in a way that it really leads to players over time driving better w/o it (like support wheels do), but forces those to keep on using them (like giving your kid a four wheel bike). The better alternative is to allow the usage of the none dynamic curve warnings including in the game.
    Your arguments are against "the line" existing at all... which is an entirely different topic.

    SMS included "the line" as part of the game - it's not cheating (like doping in RL sports); it's not unfair - everyone has access to it; it's not "ideal" - so those who have put in enough time and practice to become good enough to play without it will generally be significantly better than those who DO use it.

    Remember - it's a video game. A wide variety of types of players, with a wide range of skill levels, have purchased PCars.

    And while it's certainly one's prerogative to say "I only want to play with people who take this seriously, not people who want to have fun playing a racing game," that just seems a bit... well... off-putting to me.

    I've posted this (or something similar to it) in another racing game forum, because the same topic comes up:

    ----------------------------------------

    Let's look at hypothetical players "Bob" and "Joe"

    "Bob" is, for lack of a better way to put it, a "grown-up." Always uses a mic (and doesn't have kids screaming or music blaring in the background). He has real-world track experience, which he's happy to talk about, and he likes to chat between races, occasionally getting a laugh from some of his jokes.

    While he's not at the very top of the leaderboards, he's reasonably quick and races very cleanly, always aware of traffic around him, waiting for opportunities to pass cleanly instead of making those risky attempts which often result in contact and off-track excursions. His idea of a good race is not "getting the win;" it's having good competition, whether that means finishing first, last or somewhere in between.

    On the occasions when he ends up with a big lead (due to skill levels, off-track incidents, etc) he's been known to drop back instead of "hot-lapping" way out front, because it's more fun to be "in the thick of things."

    In short, "Bob" is EXACTLY the kind of guy everyone wants in their races.

    Except...

    Bob prefers to use Bumper View, because he's been playing racing games since way back - before there were cockpit views - and he's most comfortable with that view. He uses a game-pad instead of a wheel+pedals setup (cost, space limits, wife doesn't want it in the living room, etc). Due to an injury a while back, he has limited dexterity in the fingers of his left hand, so he uses ABS. And... because he doesn't get as much time to play as he would like and thus hasn't been able to memorize every aspect of every track, he uses "the line."

    That means "Joe" - who sets up his game lobby with all assists disabled, forced cockpit view and "no line" - will never meet Bob. Apparently, Joe is more interested in the SETTINGS a player uses, rather than in the ATTITUDE a player brings to the game.

    Personally, I like to race with players who want to have good, clean, competitive and FUN races. I don't care what assists anyone uses. In fact, if a player normally uses ABS and TCS, I'd prefer that he keep those enabled. He's far less likely to inadvertently cause a collision if he's playing in the way in which he is accustomed.

    Of course, Joe is free to set up his game lobby however he wishes. With a minor attitude adjustment, though, he just might end up meeting some good players, and maybe even make some new friends.

    -Don
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  10. #20
    Umer Ahmad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaw3dGenius View Post
    What about at night when you have no headlights while someone that uses the racing line can clearly see where they are going?
    Correct, night racing was the scenario that got Ian to move towards introducing this host disable option
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