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Thread: Post 3.0 T300 wheel settings - post you preferred settings

  1. #11
    GT3 Pilot Haiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyoHazukiITA View Post
    About the clipping I have to try with zeroes - right now I tried every car class with my values (Road - GT - Kart - Open - Prototype) and had no straight line whatsoever in the FFB telemetry. Will get a go tomorrow to see if dynamics improve.
    I think you should at least see a somewhat straight line when going down a straight on a smooth track. Not exactly the dead flatline flat, like you see with clipping but fairly straight if there's no tire force or bumps.

    Also, I'll post them tonight. Let me know what you think. It'll be good to hear a comparative opinion.
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  2. #12
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    I'll try them from a T500 perspective as my wheel has felt inconsistent since patch.

  3. #13
    Superkart Pilot Spitfire77's Avatar
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    **** EDIT - I no longer use these settings but they are still pretty good ****

    Ps4 - T300

    FFB = 100

    Deadzone = 0

    Deadzone Removal = .02

    Deadzone Removal Fall off = .01

    Tire Force = 70

    Steering Gain = .75

    Relative Adjust Gain = 1.20
    Relative Adjust Bleed = 0.10
    Relative Adjust Clamp = 1.10

    Soft Clip (Half Input) = 0.80
    Soft Clip (Full Output) = 1.29

    Soft Steering Dampening = off

    For each car - Jack Spades Fy+SoPLateral v2.0 or v1.7 depending on the car. - if the FFB for a specific car feels too strong or too light I adjust the Master Scale and SoP Scale equally to compensate.
    Last edited by Spitfire77; 27-08-2015 at 17:12. Reason: no longer use these settings
    PS4-Pro // T300rs // TH8a // T3PA-Pros // Numpad button box // WSP & Folding Chair
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiden View Post
    I think you should at least see a somewhat straight line when going down a straight on a smooth track. Not exactly the dead flatline flat, like you see with clipping but fairly straight if there's no tire force or bumps.

    Also, I'll post them tonight. Let me know what you think. It'll be good to hear a comparative opinion.
    Oh ya, of course I mean the top straight line that "breaks" the diagram

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiden View Post
    My understanding is that these settings are used to adjust your FFB scale and avoid clipping. They are exactly what they say, representing the Half (.5) and Full (1.0) force levels being sent to your wheel. Whatever value you assign to Soft Clip Half, becomes the new .5 value on the scale. Whatever value you assign to Soft Clip Full becomes the new 1.0 value. So the settings above would cram everything from .1 to 1.10 into your wheel's low range (.1 to .5). Any force above 1.10, but less than 1.20 would then be spread out in the high range (.6 to 1.0), but since there's only a single increment between 1.10 and 1.20, it seems, least to me, that your high range wouldn't be/feel that dynamic. Any forces about 1.20 would be clipped, but that's only a problem if your wheel is receiving forces in that range. With your FF set to 75 and Steering Gain at .75, you're probably okay.

    Since I turned my FF and TF down (80 and 65, respectively) and lowered my Steering Gain to .75, I no longer experience any clipping, so I don't any soft clipping, both Half and Full are now set to 0. Correct: I do see a little clipping while braking hard in high speed corners, but I don't mind it, because as soon as I come off the brake the FFB falls back into the wheel's range. Open wheel and high aero cars are my preference, so it's just initial second or two of hard braking that clips, once I ease off, or trail brake into the corner, the clipping is gone. Again, the above is just my understanding, but it's worked for me and I do have a dynamic range of feel in my FFB.

    Also, I believe the settings you see in the Thrustmaster Control Panel on your PC, are controlling the PC driver. I don't think they have any affect on your console. I used to have my TX set to 360 degrees of rotation as the default (I don't use that anymore), but it didn't matter. Everytime I booted up PCars, the wheel was at the default 900. And regardless what force level I used--higher or lower--it didn't translate to the game.
    I've been reading this couple of times this evening....and maybe just now I got it.
    So you're saying that basically when setting the Soft Clips (half and full) I'm setting the range of frequency that my wheel would register from the game and make me feel trough the wheel? Like when -let's say- I set the frequency of a Woofer telling it to reproduce frequency below 100Hz?

    If that's it of course I'm making a huge mistake...

  6. #16
    GT3 Pilot Haiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyoHazukiITA View Post
    I've been reading this couple of times this evening....and maybe just now I got it.
    So you're saying that basically when setting the Soft Clips (half and full) I'm setting the range of frequency that my wheel would register from the game and make me feel trough the wheel? Like when -let's say- I set the frequency of a Woofer telling it to reproduce frequency below 100Hz?

    If that's it of course I'm making a huge mistake...
    I think that analogy works. Simply put, it’s a conversion method. The values you set for Half and Full are telling PCars what force values to send to your wheel. For example:

    Setting Half to 1.0 means forces between .1 to 1.0 will be converted and output to your wheel in the low range as .1 to .5 (.5 being the Half)

    Setting Full to 2.0, in combination with the above Half setting, means forces between 1.1 to 2.0 will be converted and output to your wheel in the high range as .6 to 1.0. (1.0 being the Full)

    If you leave Half at 0 and only set Full to 2.0, then forces between .6 and 2.0 would be converted and output as .6 to 1.0.

    So if your wheel can’t handle forces above 1.5, and your FFB settings are causing PCars to send signals in the 1.8 - 2.0 range, setting Soft Clip Full to 2.0 will compress all forces between .6 and 2.0 and make them fit into the .6 to 1.0 range. You want to avoid too much compression, though, because packing too much into a range will make it so tight that it will become oversaturated and your wheel will just feel heavy and less dynamic.

    Here are my global settings. I’m using a TM T300. If it’s not listed, I’m using the default setting in the Default profile.

    Steering Deadzone = 0
    Force Feedback = 80

    Tire Force = 65
    Menu Spring Strength = 0.30
    Low Speed Spring Coefficient = 0.75
    Low Speed Spring Saturation = 0.05
    Steering Gain = 0.80 - 0.82 (strangely, an increment or two, makes a noticeable difference for me)

    At the car level, I use Jack Spade's Classic FFB settings. I don't use SoP Lateral, because those forces operate in the same spectrum as the Fy tire forces, and I've found my lap times were always better with the Classic settings. The Classic settings use SoP Differential, and I've found that's all I need.

    I’ve heard some people say that Menu Spring Strength has made a difference for them in game. However, the patch notes and my experience is that this only affects the wheel’s centering pull when you’re in the menu screens. I’ve tested it, and I can feel the difference (wheel heavier or lighter) as soon as I back out of the configuration screen and the settings save. I lowered mine, because I know the T300 wheels can be finicky, and I don’t want the motor working hard for no reason.

    The Low Speed Spring settings are exactly what they says, the centering spring strength at low speeds. The Coefficient is how quickly the force is applied at low speeds. I didn’t change this, because the patch notes recommended leaving it higher than the Saturation, so I just went with the default. Saturation controls how much centering force is applied at low speeds. I set this very low, because, when driving, centering force feels the same as the lateral force from the tires. At high speeds, the lateral tire force overpowers the centering force. But as speed decreases, and the lateral forces drop, too much centering force can give the false impression of lateral tire force. Lowering the Low Speed Spring Saturation will make the wheel feel lighter during low speed cornering. This is a personal preference, and may not feel right to everyone. I like it, because it lets me know when I've got grip to spare, and I take corners tighter. When the centering force is there, it feels just like lateral tire force, and I don't realize I've got excess grip to tighten the turn.

    Steering Gain is a force multiplier. Whatever you set this to, PCars will multiple the steering force by that amount. A setting of 1 produces no effect (4 x 1 = 4). Obviously, a higher setting here can cause clipping. I lowered mine to 0.82, which reduces the force (4 x .82 = 3.28). I felt like this provided me with a good base force that doesn't clip. If the wheel of an individual car feels too light, then I can adjust the Master Scale at the car level. Again, this value is a personal preference. But I do recommend finding your baseline setting for your global values, and then adjusting for individual car mechanics at the car level.

    I don’t use Soft Clipping anymore because with my lower FF, TF, and Steering Gain settings, I only get clipping during hard braking on high speed corners. I’m okay with this, because it’s only for the initial second or two, when I brake hard. As soon as I come off the brake or trail brake through the corner, the force saturation drops back into the wheel's range, and the dynamic feedback returns. Again, it’s preference. And to be honest, I'm not even sure it's clipping. The line doesn't really go clean flat, so it might just be near the top of the range, but still within it.

    Anyway, I hope this helps. If you try it, please let me know what you think. FFB can be highly subjective, and I like to compare preferences. That’s kind of how I’ve gotten to this point. Reading different perspectives and taking what works and discarding the what didn’t.

    One last thing. When I first started playing PCars I was used to and wanted heavy Forza style FFB. But as I played with the different settings and tips, I noticed that my lap times were actually better with lighter settings. Lap times mattered more to me than feel, so I decided to go with the lighter FFB. Funny thing is, now, a few months later, those same lighter settings don't really feel light anymore, and when trying new tweaks and tips, I often find myself quickly saying, "Nope. That's too heavy." I know it's subjective, but IMO, heavy wheels are just a result of oversaturation and don't feel as dynamic. If you're used to heavy FFB, don't reject lighter settings just based on feel. Give them a little time on the track and compare your lap times. Whatever makes you faster is what you should go with. If that turns out to be something your not used to, don't worry. You'll get used to it. And you'll be faster. Heavy FFB can also cause your wheel's motor to burn out faster.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that I add a little smoothing to the Jack Spade settings. Fx Smoothing = 20, Fy Smoothing =10, Fz Smoothing =0, and Mz Smoothing =10. I leave Fz at 0, because that's bumps and road texture. I prefer that force raw/hard. And if for some reason you're adjusting your Soft Clipping Half, but not the Full, you will need to set your Full to 1.0. That won't actually have any effect on the high range, because it basically sets your Full to its default value, but if you adjust the Half and leave the Full set at 0, you won't be able to feel to high range forces. Strangely, it's not necessary the other way around; you can set a Full value and leave Half at 0 with no problem.

    I also recommend that, at the car level, you set your FFB Master Scale (on the first tab) and SoP Scale (on the second tab) to the same increment. These forces often work in the same spectrum. If one is stronger than the other, you'll be getting lopsided feedback.
    Last edited by Haiden; 21-08-2015 at 15:09.
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  7. #17
    rocafella1978
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    maybe finally a T300RS sticky! hope so and about time!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiden View Post
    I think that analogy works. Simply put, it’s a conversion method. The values you set for Half and Full are telling PCars what force values to send to your wheel. For example:

    Setting Half to 1.0 means forces between .1 to 1.0 will be converted and output to your wheel in the low range as .1 to .5 (.5 being the Half)

    Setting Full to 2.0, in combination with the above Half setting, means forces between 1.1 to 2.0 will be converted and output to your wheel in the high range as .6 to 1.0. (1.0 being the Full)

    If you leave Half at 0 and only set Full to 2.0, then forces between .6 and 2.0 would be converted and output as .6 to 1.0.

    So if your wheel can’t handle forces above 1.5, and your FFB settings are causing PCars to send signals in the 1.8 - 2.0 range, setting Soft Clip Full to 2.0 will compress all forces between .6 and 2.0 and make them fit into the .6 to 1.0 range. You want to avoid too much compression, though, because packing too much into a range will make it so tight that it will become oversaturated and your wheel will just feel heavy and less dynamic.

    Here are my global settings. I’m using a TM T300. If it’s not listed, I’m using the default setting in the Default profile.

    Steering Deadzone = 0
    Force Feedback = 80

    Tire Force = 65
    Menu Spring Strength = 0.30
    Low Speed Spring Coefficient = 0.75
    Low Speed Spring Saturation = 0.05
    Steering Gain = 0.80 - 0.82 (strangely, an increment or two, makes a noticeable difference for me)

    At the car level, I use Jack Spade's Classic FFB settings. I don't use SoP Lateral, because those forces operate in the same spectrum as the Fy tire forces, and I've found my lap times were always better with the Classic settings. The Classic settings use SoP Differential, and I've found that's all I need.

    I’ve heard some people say that Menu Spring Strength has made a difference for them in game. However, the patch notes and my experience is that this only affects the wheel’s centering pull when you’re in the menu screens. I’ve tested it, and I can feel the difference (wheel heavier or lighter) as soon as I back out of the configuration screen and the settings save. I lowered mine, because I know the T300 wheels can be finicky, and I don’t want the motor working hard for no reason.

    The Low Speed Spring settings are exactly what they says, the centering spring strength at low speeds. The Coefficient is how quickly the force is applied at low speeds. I didn’t change this, because the patch notes recommended leaving it higher than the Saturation, so I just went with the default. Saturation controls how much centering force is applied at low speeds. I set this very low, because, when driving, centering force feels the same as the lateral force from the tires. At high speeds, the lateral tire force overpowers the centering force. But as speed decreases, and the lateral forces drop, too much centering force can give the false impression of lateral tire force. Lowering the Low Speed Spring Saturation will make the wheel feel lighter during low speed cornering. This is a personal preference, and may not feel right to everyone. I like it, because it lets me know when I've got grip to spare, and I take corners tighter. When the centering force is there, it feelsjust like lateral tire force, and I don't realize I've got excess grip to tighten the turn.

    Steering Gain is a force multiplier. Whatever you set this to, PCars will multiple the steering force by that amount. A setting of 1 produces no effect (4 x 1 = 4). Obviously, a higher setting here can cause clipping. I lowered mine to 0.82, which reduces the force (4 x .82 = 3.28). I felt like this provided me with a good base force that doesn't clip. If the wheel of an individual car feels too light, then I can adjust the Master Scale at the car level. Again, this value is a personal preference. But I do recommend finding your baseline setting for your global values, and then adjusting for individual car mechanics at the car level.

    I don’t use Soft Clipping anymore because with my lower FF, TF, and Steering Gain settings, I only get clipping during hard braking on high speed corners. I’m okay with this, because it’s only for the initial second or two, when I brake hard. As soon as I come off the brake or trail brake through the corner, the force saturation drops back into the wheel's range, and the dynamic feedback returns. Again, it’s preference.

    Anyway, I hope this helps. If you try it, please let me know what you think. FFB can be highly subjective, and I like to compare preferences. That’s kind of how I’ve gotten to this point. Reading different perspectives and taking what works and discarding the what didn’t.

    One last thing. When I first started playing PCars I was used to and wanted heavy Forza style FFB. But as I played with the different settings and tips, I noticed that my lap times were actually better with lighter settings. Lap times mattered more to me than feel, so I decided to go with the lighter FFB. Funny thing is, now, a few months later, those same lighter settings don't really feel light anymore, and when trying new tweaks and tips, I often find myself quickly saying, "Nope. That's too heavy." I know it's subjective, but IMO, heavy wheels are just a result of oversaturation and don't feel as dynamic. If you're used to heavy FFB, don't reject lighter settings just based on feel. Give them a little time on the track and compare your lap times. Whatever makes you faster is what you should go with. If that turns out to be something your not used to, don't worry. You'll get used to it. And you'll be faster. Heavy FFB can also cause your wheel's motor to burn out faster.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that I add a little smoothing to the Jack Spade settings. Fx = 20, Fy =10, Fz=0, and Mz=10. I leave Fz at 0, because that's bumps and road texture. I prefer that force raw/hard. And if for some reason you're adjusting your Soft Clipping Half, but not the full, you will need to set your Full to 1.0, which is basically has no effect, but if you adjust the soft and leave the full set at 0, you won't be able to feel to high range forces.
    Today I'll try for sure and let you know.
    About the settings, I have found too that MENU SPRING does only affect the heaviness of the wheel in the menu: it's pretty straight forward but there was some controversy about whether or not it'd also influence the race feeling. It doesn't.

    About leaving Fz to 0: correct me if I'm wrong but basically here you're telling PjC to send Z FORCE as it is right? Said that when we put in values from 10 to 200....what are we asking? A multiplication/scale of the forces?

  9. #19
    GT3 Pilot Haiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyoHazukiITA View Post
    M

    Today I'll try for sure and let you know.
    About the settings, I have found too that MENU SPRING does only affect the heaviness of the wheel in the menu: it's pretty straight forward but there was some controversy about whether or not it'd also influence the race feeling. It doesn't.

    About leaving Fz to 0: correct me if I'm wrong but basically here you're telling PjC to send Z FORCE as it is right? Said that when we put in values from 10 to 200....what are we asking? A multiplication/scale of the forces?
    Oh, I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I was talking about the Smoothing scales there. Set the actual force scales to whatever the Jack Spade setting is, but I add 20 increments of smoothing to every smoothing scale, except Fz. And yes, that's telling PCars to send the Fz forces raw with no smoothing. I like it that way, because bumps, curbs, and road texture are communicated through the Fz scale. I prefer to keep those hard, gritty, and sharp. But you can smooth them if you want to. Also, you might want to try 10 increments of smoothing on the other forces, instead of 20 to see which you prefer. It will more than likely depend on how strong your FFB settings are. There's also nothing wrong with mixing it up. Your smoothing scales don't have to all be the same value. Personally, I wouldn't recommend going above 20, but you can if it suits you. I just find that above 20, the smoothing starts to cause the forces to bleed into each other and the wheel starts to feel sluggish.
    Last edited by Haiden; 21-08-2015 at 06:34.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiden View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. I was talking about the Smoothing scales there. Set the actual force scales to whatever the Jack Spade setting is, but I add 20 increments of smoothing to every smoothing scale, except Fz. And yes, that's telling PCars to send the Fz forces raw with no smoothing. I like it that way, because bumps, curbs, and road texture are communicated through the Fz scale. I prefer to keep those hard, gritty, and sharp. But you can smooth them if you want to. Also, you might want to try 10 increments of smoothing on the other forces, instead of 20 to see which you prefer. It will more than likely depend on how strong your FFB settings are. There's also nothing wrong with mixing it up. Your smoothing scales don't have to all be the same value. Personally, I wouldn't recommend going above 20, but you can if it suits you. I just find that above 20, the smoothing starts to cause the forces to bleed into each other and the wheel starts to feel sluggish.
    The Smoothing! I get it now

    BTW I wrote a PM to Jack asking to help with clipping and stuff...that's his reply. He confirms the audio analogy we've done

    Soft Clipping can be compared to an audio compressor. Half Input=comp. ratio, Full Output=Makeup Gain. H.I. low value=more comp, F.O. low value=more output
    In general a compressor increases low forces and decreases high forces - result=narrows the dynamic.
    High ratios (H.I.low value) lead to smoothed out FFB effects. F.O should be above 1.0 values below cause clipping.

    Jack


    So basically this tells me that the optimal setting will be achieved maintaining as high (in value) Soft Clip (Half Input) setting as our wheel can sustain without wearing out fast and shit (?)
    Cause he sais "low values of H.I. = more compression" which couldn't be that good....and theoretically speaking I'll prefer lowering the effects than getting them all compressed together, potentially losing dynamic.

    What do you think guys??
    Last edited by RyoHazukiITA; 21-08-2015 at 08:05.

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