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Thread: Lets talk FFB PC, PS4, XBox1

  1. #2131
    Superkart Pilot PureMalt77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiden View Post
    Yeah... Go ahead and sign me up. I'll deal with the first two cars. X-Bow isn't that bad, but the BMW is just no joy, but I'll deal.
    What's ur PSN? or add me and I include u in the group later...
    PSN: PureMalt77
    "If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
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  2. #2132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woffu View Post
    These are the settings I'm using from morpwr. I'm using FFB 45
    ffb master 45-65 or whatever you like
    tf 75
    drr .07
    drf .019 ( put slider full left then 19 clicks right )
    rag 1.50
    rab .02
    rac .85
    sk .77
    sr .20
    str gain 1.00
    anything not here is default. Let me know what you think your opinions always welcome.

    Morpwr's settings on that web site need updating as he has made a few changes.
    So let's say I wanted to run more tf. I like at 100, I can't feel alot of the tire detail when I lower. I guess I got used to it. I was lowering rag and sg to compensate but now that sg is at a 100 where I ran it so should I just lower the rag or will that jack the signal up? I already have ffb at 45. I could go lower there also though if that's better than rag.

  3. #2133
    Superkart Pilot tennenbaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimeyDog View Post
    Come on tennenbaum it will be be fun... ya gotta let loose some time.
    ok! count me in! I'll send Pure Malt a sign up post. I don't even know how to spell Bannochbrae... never tried it, neither the BMW M1... it will be a disaster But it will be a lot of fun to meet you guys finally on the track...
    T300RS EVO599, T3PApro, TH8shifter, Win 10, Strix Z270E, 2x8 GB DDR4-2666, CPU i7-7700 4.200 (oc 4.800), EVGA GPU 1080ti (oc 1.920), Rift, SimCommander4, BK Gamer 2, Sony 4K A1 65", playseat challenge, PS4pro, PSVR, & a 50+ cables mess
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  4. #2134
    Superkart Pilot tennenbaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureMalt77 View Post
    I'm working like a dog these days and that help me turn it off for a while!
    Anyway, let me know whenever you wanna try! Will be a pleasure to measure the best FFB setting in the track! LOL
    OK i'm in! Just beam me up, scotty! My PSN: miraculix99
    T300RS EVO599, T3PApro, TH8shifter, Win 10, Strix Z270E, 2x8 GB DDR4-2666, CPU i7-7700 4.200 (oc 4.800), EVGA GPU 1080ti (oc 1.920), Rift, SimCommander4, BK Gamer 2, Sony 4K A1 65", playseat challenge, PS4pro, PSVR, & a 50+ cables mess
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  5. #2135
    GT3 Pilot GrimeyDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennenbaum View Post
    ok! count me in! I'll send Pure Malt a sign up post. I don't even know how to spell Bannochbrae... never tried it, neither the BMW M1... it will be a disaster But it will be a lot of fun to meet you guys finally on the track...
    Tennenbaum you wont be alone!!! 1 guy running a 2:17.xxx the other 2:15.xxx im 10 secs off the pace!!! Never driven that track but the first day it released just to see it and Never with that car... Car Feels good but Very Tricky Track...10 secs off the pace!!!!
    OS: Win 10/64bit| Mobo: MSI Z170A-M5 | CPU: i7-7700k | Cooler: Corsair H90 | RAM: 32GB DDR4 | GPU: Asus Strix 1080ti-OC Edition | PSU: CX 750M | Storage: Samsung SSD 250GB +4TB HD +1TB Media HD | PC Case: Corsair 760T | Display: QLED 55in Curved TV / VR: Oculus Rift | Rig: RSeat N1, Fanatec DD2, CSP v3i , CSS SQ v1.5, CS HB, XB1 Hub/Forza Rim w/APM shifters, Formula Black F1, Astro A40 TR*, 3x Buttkicker Gamer2. Lets Talk FFB thread PC,PS4,XB1
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  6. #2136
    Superkart Pilot PureMalt77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tennenbaum View Post
    OK i'm in! Just beam me up, scotty! My PSN: miraculix99
    Cool, signing u in!

    Guys, please post on the league's thread and don't spam this one!
    PSN: PureMalt77
    "If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
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  7. #2137
    Superkart Pilot PureMalt77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimeyDog View Post
    Tennenbaum you wont be alone!!! 1 guy running a 2:17.xxx the other 2:15.xxx im 10 secs off the pace!!! Never driven that track but the first day it released just to see it and Never with that car... Car Feels good but Very Tricky Track...10 secs off the pace!!!!
    this is what I like in our league and left others before: we try lots of things: some will be very comfortable, others not, making it a good mixture and giving each one a chance to excel in the combos they see best...
    Last edited by PureMalt77; 05-03-2016 at 17:26.
    PSN: PureMalt77
    "If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
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  8. #2138
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woffu View Post
    These are the settings I'm using from morpwr. I'm using FFB 45
    ffb master 45-65 or whatever you like
    tf 75
    drr .07
    drf .019 ( put slider full left then 19 clicks right )
    rag 1.50
    rab .02
    rac .85
    sk .77
    sr .20
    str gain 1.00
    anything not here is default. Let me know what you think your opinions always welcome.

    Morpwr's settings on that web site need updating as he has made a few changes.
    Sorry guys I wasn't sure how they were going to workout so I didn't post them yet. Ill try to get the site updated today.
    MOBO: asus rog maximus x hero / CPU: intel i7 8700k 5.1ghz / RAM:corsair platinum 32GB DDR4 3866-ocd4000 / COOLING: thermaltake floe 360 / GPU: asus GeForce RTX2080ti oc / PSU: evga super nova 850g2 / STORAGE: Samsung evo 500gb- Samsung evo 1tb / CASE: thermaltake core x71 / RIG:Gt omega /SimRacing Bay 30nm OSW / Heusinkveld pro pedals / Fanatec shifter /VR:rift / BACKUP: ps4 http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/

  9. #2139
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrimeyDog View Post
    Tennenbaum you wont be alone!!! 1 guy running a 2:17.xxx the other 2:15.xxx im 10 secs off the pace!!! Never driven that track but the first day it released just to see it and Never with that car... Car Feels good but Very Tricky Track...10 secs off the pace!!!!
    The corner after the bridge gets me everytime.lol Worst part is i know its coming and still do it.
    MOBO: asus rog maximus x hero / CPU: intel i7 8700k 5.1ghz / RAM:corsair platinum 32GB DDR4 3866-ocd4000 / COOLING: thermaltake floe 360 / GPU: asus GeForce RTX2080ti oc / PSU: evga super nova 850g2 / STORAGE: Samsung evo 500gb- Samsung evo 1tb / CASE: thermaltake core x71 / RIG:Gt omega /SimRacing Bay 30nm OSW / Heusinkveld pro pedals / Fanatec shifter /VR:rift / BACKUP: ps4 http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/
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  10. #2140
    Superkart Pilot tennenbaum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGETI View Post
    Glad you find the statement valid. Can you do me and maybe a few other a favor and translate the statement into something that will be easily understood. thanks.
    Casey Ringley: "They are very different things. Fy depends on lateral force and mechanical trail. Mz is primarily driven by pneumatic trail, what is going on within the contact patch and tire carcass. Important to remember that mechanical trail =/= pneumatic trail. The former is variable with car setup (caster angle, etc.) and steering angle while the latter is dynamically variable with what the contact patch is doing at that instant. Mz tends to peak right around peak slip angle and then fall off rapidly to even go negative as you pass peak. Fy is far less temperamental. It might fade slightly past peak slip angle, but since the force is still in the same direction and only slightly lower in magnitude, the effect on total FFB signal is largely the same."

    Briefly:

    Check out the little Pajecka magic formula graph picture: Mz (that Casey refers to) is the green line, and Fy is the red graph. It explains why Mz - when peaking - tells you that the tire is close to develop less cornering force, meaning Fy is close to pass its peak and decreases, which leads to less cornering force... meaning the tire looses grip and you're getting closer to understeer. In other words: Mz peaks earlier than Fy.



    In detail:

    That's why in reality as with the game the driver is looking for settings (mechanical steering geometry, and FFB Setting) that makes him sense Mz, so gets a pre-warning shortly before the tires loose maximum grip. The catch is: Mz (here meant as the tire's Mz) creates less torque (to the steering) than Fy (translated to steering torque through caster, that defines the mechanical trail). That's why most common FFB settings here around work with reduced Fy and relatively increased Mz settings. Though, since most people are not aware of Mz very specific behavior (see green line: it can even go "negative") and that it only builds up around the slip angle, they can't really read it in the FFB mix. Example: The long sweeper curve after the bus stop of Watkins Glen Short. If you isolate Mz (by turning the other forces Fxyz off, you can feel that Mz builds up and disappears quickly (almost leading to rattling wheel) while you steer "around" the most efficient steering angle that grants you the best grip.


    thanks to Ermo (at racedepartment forum) here the basics to its all:
    Per definition, Mz* = (mechanical trail + pneumatic trail) * cos(caster angle) * Fy

    see my explanations below...

    it looks a bit scary, but is quite simple if you imagine a leverage that has a certain length (both trails summarized) and with Fy (lateral force) you push or pull on that leverage like on a longer or shorter door handle... the longer the door handle the more torque that rotates the kingpin you achieve...

    Important: Mz* (above in the formula)) describes the torque that rotates kingpin, thus the steering wheel. The "Mz" we refer to in the game (FxyzMz) and to which Casey refers to is the torque that happens directly at (or with) the tire's contact patch, due to the tire's specific construction and and thus deformation during cornering. This is the complicated part: The Mz setting (Casey refers to) that we can adjust in the in car FFB settings describes how much "Tire-Mz" comes into effect (in the FFB mix) depending on the specific pneumatic trail of a specific tire. Instead the Mz* above results from the Mz (from tire) plus the Mz that results from caster and kingpin inclination (which creates the mechanical trail.)

    Frankly, it took me quite a while until i really understood it... Because the entire finesse of it can be only understood when you get a deeper understanding how that "forms" the scrub radius. And depending on the scrub radius you start to understand why more or less tire-load (thus more or less friction/resistance, due to weight shifts, or aquaplaning, or ackermann angle, or one tire on the green and the other on the track... and so on) effects FFB so much. Even with effects that be can be very counter-intuitive!

    Another thing that is often overlooked is that the left and the right front tire build up individually different pushing and pulling forces from both sides of the steering rack (toothed rock that moves the pinion). So the one tire from both tires that develops a stronger torque to its kingpin than the tire on the other side dominates the steering, thus not even your steering wheel but also whats happening to the tire on the other side. That's also the reason why changes of the ackermann angle lead to very complex effects that are hard to predict...

    Elmo also contributed this great expanation of pCars FFB fundamentals
    http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...thread.105466/

    here my explanations:

    "trail" can be understood as leverage.

    mechanical trail = the distance between the point on the road surface when you lenghten (in your mind) the kingpin virtually where it would hit the tarmac and the middle of the tire contact patch. Since the geometric orientation of kingpin depends on caster angle and kingpin inclination, the mechanical trail depends mainly on caster and KPI (which both can be influenced additonally by toe and camber).

    pneumatic trail = distance between middle of the contact tyre patch and where the highest Fy will be created due to the tire's deformation of its contact patch, see little picture.

    So the core of what Casey says is that the game's Mz (of FxyzMz) is derived from the pneumatic trail (not from the mechanical!). I did some lengthy Q&As with other guys in other forums to research what's officially confirmed now by Casey just recently.

    It's actually great that pCars does it as Casey described it, because it shows that he and AJ (the devs for physics and FFB) did a great job: this way its totally logical: each tire model has its specific pneumatic trail, plus each car's steering geometry adds its individual mechanical trail to it (that you can manipulate by your car set ups caster camber toe...), and both together "translates" Fy into a torque to kingpin that moves the rack which turns the pinion which finally makes your (FFB-) wheel turn...

    You get the entire picture when you google "Pajecka's magic formula". When you wanna dig deeper check out my former posts, or -for the hardcore enthusiasts- google Brian Beckmann The Physics of Racing... have fun!

    here some more references

    http://white-smoke.wikifoundry.com/p...ering+Geometry

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_trail

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    Last edited by tennenbaum; 03-05-2016 at 09:31.
    T300RS EVO599, T3PApro, TH8shifter, Win 10, Strix Z270E, 2x8 GB DDR4-2666, CPU i7-7700 4.200 (oc 4.800), EVGA GPU 1080ti (oc 1.920), Rift, SimCommander4, BK Gamer 2, Sony 4K A1 65", playseat challenge, PS4pro, PSVR, & a 50+ cables mess
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