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Thread: TM 300 disconnects.....

  1. #1
    Kart Driver
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    TM 300 disconnects.....

    When I turn the FFB up to 100 from the default 75, the wheel disconnects after about 5 min of driving. I put all FFB settings back to default and it didn't do this once. Put it back to 100 and ... disconnect every time. Help. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Superkart Pilot
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    That sounds quite similar to the "FFB Fade" due to overheating motors.

    Is the fan still working?

  3. #3
    GT5 Pilot chig88's Avatar
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    Yep, definitely sounds like it's overheating. The wheel shuts itself off if temperatures get too high to avoid damage to the internals.

    Try leaving the FFB at 100 but turning the Tire Force down to avoid stressing the wheel too much. I currently have mine at 65 - gives good FFB & I'm not having any overheating so far.
    Wheel: Thrustmaster T300RS with Ferrari F1 Rim
    Pedals: G27 Seat: Playseat Revolution GT PSN: chig88

  4. #4
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    There is really no reason to ever turn the FFB control up to 100 on console versions of the game. The suggestions to set FFB at 100 came from guys playing on PC, but for them, it is a secondary, redundant in-game master prior to the final master in their wheel's driver Control Panel in software. Their Control Panel masters default to different setting per wheel, eg, 60 for the T500 and 75 for the T300. We need to look at our single FFB master as being like that master control panel setting, because in both cases, it is the final output to the wheel. It needs to be set relative to the wheel being used. This was confirmed recently in a conversation I had with Tim Mann, Console Lead for SMS. I asked about the nature of the FFB control on consoles, and this was his reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Mann
    Hi, there is only the one control on PS4 which covers the entire range from off to full, you should set it appropriately for your device.

    Tim
    It would be safe to assume that the default setting for the T300 is considered the appropriate output level to the wheel, as is also the case with the Control Panel master for guys on PC.

    The other issue with boosting the FFB master is that it sits after the telemetry in the signal chain, which means there is no way of monitoring the effect it is having on the final output to the wheel. If your telemetry is showing signals close to clipping, boosting the FFB substantially past its default setting of 75 (for a T300) will almost certainly be sending the wheel into clipping at the output. Since all of the dynamic range is calculated prior to the FFB master, there is no advantage in setting it higher than its default. If you want stronger or lighter overall FFB output, then the Steering Gain control is the final output stage of the calculated forces prior to telemetry.

    The problem with lowering Tire Force is that it is at the front of the chain, and should therefore be looked at as an input control between the tire physics model and the in-car spindle scales and SoP. Lowering the TF is simply starving the rest of the system of information, and will therefore effect how the compression/expansion controls (Relative Gain, Scoop, Soft Clipping) function. The in-car masters and individual scales are probably the best place to attenuate specific forces, giving you the chance to use Jack Spade's settings, or your own mix of forces, on a per car, per track basis. It should be noted that all of Jack's setups are calculated on his own global Tire Force setting of 100.

    Ultimately, we are free to set our FFB however we like, but cases like the OP's, along with a long list of cooked T300s, are a good reason why we should understand the differences in how the game works on consoles, and why some of the advice given to players on PC does not apply.
    T300 RS, TH8A, G27 Pedals with GTEYE Progressive Brake Spring Mod, GTEYE Clutch and Throttle Spring Mods, Ricmotech pedal adapter, Speedmaster V2.0 Sim Cockpit, PS4
    The following 2 users likes this Post: falm, Vennt


  5. #5
    WMD Member falm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahwah View Post
    There is really no reason to ever turn the FFB control up to 100 on console versions of the game. The suggestions to set FFB at 100 came from guys playing on PC, but for them, it is a secondary, redundant in-game master prior to the final master in their wheel's driver Control Panel in software. Their Control Panel masters default to different setting per wheel, eg, 60 for the T500 and 75 for the T300. We need to look at our single FFB master as being like that master control panel setting, because in both cases, it is the final output to the wheel. It needs to be set relative to the wheel being used. This was confirmed recently in a conversation I had with Tim Mann, Console Lead for SMS. I asked about the nature of the FFB control on consoles, and this was his reply.
    So 75 should be better value for the T300? Never had this problem, but then a few days ago it started to happen also with my T300.
    My first thought was that it was related to the PS4 Beta 3 Firmware which I also started running a few more days ago.

    Will adjust to 75 next weekend and give the feedback if this solved the problem for me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahwah View Post
    There is really no reason to ever turn the FFB control up to 100 on console versions of the game. The suggestions to set FFB at 100 came from guys playing on PC, but for them, it is a secondary, redundant in-game master prior to the final master in their wheel's driver Control Panel in software. Their Control Panel masters default to different setting per wheel, eg, 60 for the T500 and 75 for the T300. We need to look at our single FFB master as being like that master control panel setting, because in both cases, it is the final output to the wheel. It needs to be set relative to the wheel being used. This was confirmed recently in a conversation I had with Tim Mann, Console Lead for SMS. I asked about the nature of the FFB control on consoles, and this was his reply.



    It would be safe to assume that the default setting for the T300 is considered the appropriate output level to the wheel, as is also the case with the Control Panel master for guys on PC.

    The other issue with boosting the FFB master is that it sits after the telemetry in the signal chain, which means there is no way of monitoring the effect it is having on the final output to the wheel. If your telemetry is showing signals close to clipping, boosting the FFB substantially past its default setting of 75 (for a T300) will almost certainly be sending the wheel into clipping at the output. Since all of the dynamic range is calculated prior to the FFB master, there is no advantage in setting it higher than its default. If you want stronger or lighter overall FFB output, then the Steering Gain control is the final output stage of the calculated forces prior to telemetry.

    The problem with lowering Tire Force is that it is at the front of the chain, and should therefore be looked at as an input control between the tire physics model and the in-car spindle scales and SoP. Lowering the TF is simply starving the rest of the system of information, and will therefore effect how the compression/expansion controls (Relative Gain, Scoop, Soft Clipping) function. The in-car masters and individual scales are probably the best place to attenuate specific forces, giving you the chance to use Jack Spade's settings, or your own mix of forces, on a per car, per track basis. It should be noted that all of Jack's setups are calculated on his own global Tire Force setting of 100.

    Ultimately, we are free to set our FFB however we like, but cases like the OP's, along with a long list of cooked T300s, are a good reason why we should understand the differences in how the game works on consoles, and why some of the advice given to players on PC does not apply.
    Thanks a lot for clarifying! Very helpful, also for a better understanding of the entire chain of signals. Especially since many PCars "gurus" stressed (wrongly) the issue to set the FFB to 100 - implicating the (wrong) idea that this keeps the signal-dynamic to its highest possible range. Instead, as you said, the FFB value (default 75 for the T300 wheel) defines the absolute output signal strength (that can indeed fry the wheel.)

    Though there is still a question (among many more ;-) I always read SoP (Seat of Pants), but I (PS4) can't find any input parameter related to "SoP". (Or does "SoP" refers to the Fx,Fy,Fz,Fm forces?). Where a are the SoP settings?

    BTW: Why don't the developers publish a proper explanation/guide, what the terms and parameters stand for?! It's such a waste of time for so many forum contributors to figure out all that stuff based on try and error, happy guessing, and finding the very rare 5% relevant knowledge among 95% wrong assumptions cluttering the forums.

  7. #7
    GT5 Pilot chig88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miraculix99 View Post
    Though there is still a question (among many more ;-) I always read SoP (Seat of Pants), but I (PS4) can't find any input parameter related to "SoP". (Or does "SoP" refers to the Fx,Fy,Fz,Fm forces?). Where a are the SoP settings?
    If I recall correctly you need to set the SoP for each car. In the car setup menu press R1 (I think) to get to the FFB settings & the SoP settings are at the bottom of the 2nd page.
    Wheel: Thrustmaster T300RS with Ferrari F1 Rim
    Pedals: G27 Seat: Playseat Revolution GT PSN: chig88
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by miraculix99 View Post
    Thanks a lot for clarifying! Very helpful, also for a better understanding of the entire chain of signals. Especially since many PCars "gurus" stressed (wrongly) the issue to set the FFB to 100 - implicating the (wrong) idea that this keeps the signal-dynamic to its highest possible range. Instead, as you said, the FFB value (default 75 for the T300 wheel) defines the absolute output signal strength (that can indeed fry the wheel.)

    Though there is still a question (among many more ;-) I always read SoP (Seat of Pants), but I (PS4) can't find any input parameter related to "SoP". (Or does "SoP" refers to the Fx,Fy,Fz,Fm forces?). Where a are the SoP settings?

    BTW: Why don't the developers publish a proper explanation/guide, what the terms and parameters stand for?! It's such a waste of time for so many forum contributors to figure out all that stuff based on try and error, happy guessing, and finding the very rare 5% relevant knowledge among 95% wrong assumptions cluttering the forums.
    Don't get me wrong, the gurus know what they're talking about, it's just that the system works slightly differently on PC than it does on console, because of the extra attenuation stage that the PC version has because of their wheel's Control Panel. On PC, the FFB master is basically redundant, so it is suggested on PC to leave it set 'wide open' at 100. The signal then goes through their final output, in the software driver for their wheel on the PC. For those of us on consoles, we basically don't have the redundant control, we just have the final output master.

    You will find the SoP settings on the next page to the Master Scale and spindle arm forces (Fx, Fy, etc) in the in-car settings. Press R2 to get to the next page. It's heading is Body & SoP. You can get to these pages either in My Garage or the pit box. When using SoP, it's a good idea to match the master scale to the SoP scale, and then tweak the individual components as you please.

    For reference, the signal chain on console looks like this...

    Car Physics/Tire Model > Tire Force > In-Car Settings (Master Scale, spindle forces, SoP) > Global compression/expansion (Rel Gain, Scoop, Soft Clip) > Steering Gain > FFB Monitor (Telemetry) > FFB Master > Wheel
    T300 RS, TH8A, G27 Pedals with GTEYE Progressive Brake Spring Mod, GTEYE Clutch and Throttle Spring Mods, Ricmotech pedal adapter, Speedmaster V2.0 Sim Cockpit, PS4
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  9. #9
    GT5 Pilot chig88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahwah View Post
    Press R2 to get to the next page.
    Knew it was in that region somewhere .
    Wheel: Thrustmaster T300RS with Ferrari F1 Rim
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chig88 View Post
    Knew it was in that region somewhere .
    Yep, the throttle and brake pedals will get us there, too!
    T300 RS, TH8A, G27 Pedals with GTEYE Progressive Brake Spring Mod, GTEYE Clutch and Throttle Spring Mods, Ricmotech pedal adapter, Speedmaster V2.0 Sim Cockpit, PS4
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