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Thread: UDP Broadcasting into complete LAN? Are you shure to want this?

  1. #1
    WMD Member Snoopy's Avatar
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    UDP Broadcasting into complete LAN? Are you shure to want this?

    Hi,

    UDP Streaming was realizied in pCARS in order to give a second possibility like the "Shared Memory" to collect Data out of pCARS.
    Good intention, nice attempt, but...

    I don't know why those UDP Output broadcasts are going into the complete Network?

    I call something like that Broadcast-Flooding, others maybe call it DoS.
    If someone sets his UDP Sending into fastest Mode, some Devices in the Network will fail, because of Traffic-Flooding.

    Noone can tell Users to create VLANs in his LAN in order to keep the Network Traffic down or calm.
    This cannot be the solution SMS...

    Force the users to set IP Adresses in pCARS, which devices should receive Data (and only those!).
    Make the UDP Stream configure-able to 3-5 Devices and everything is good.
    The traffic should only go to those Devices (configured by IP), not more or less.

    Don't yell everything into the complete Network, like a LAN-UDP-Broadcast-Monster...
    Nothing else is pCARS if someone enables this Option...
    Last edited by Snoopy; 15-12-2015 at 14:23. Reason: Typos...
    Best regards,
    Andreas

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  2. #2
    WMD Member Snoopy's Avatar
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    *push
    Best regards,
    Andreas

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  3. #3
    IT Manager Vittorio Rapa's Avatar
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    The traffic impact on the network is negligible even at the fastest rate, there won't be any device flooded by the UDP packets because those devices won't reply with a ICMP on the 5606 port (that is a prerogative to have a such flood having any effect at all): you're applying the theory of a UDP attack to the wrong scenario.
    Is it yours just a theory based on a wrong assumption, or do you really had issues because of it? If so, I'm curious to see the bad effects you may have noticed and we can discuss about it.
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  4. #4
    Superkart Pilot graveltrap's Avatar
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    I experienced both my phone and laptop being unable to connect to my Wireless network when I had the UDP set to 1, in game, I am also experiencing some lag when playing online since I started using the feature (currently at 5).

    I will turn it down to 7 (as advised by another forum user) and try again to see if it improves matters...

    I am on a Virgin media connection in the UK, using the router they provide (no idea if that information is of use).

  5. #5
    IT Manager Vittorio Rapa's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how the UDP traffic could affect the capability of a device to connect via WiFi (if anything it could affect the traffic, not the connection to the router), and even if it affects the router (ie: the router software can't handle the stream), those devices aren't connected to the network at all, so the cause couldn't be them being "flooded" by some UDP traffic.
    On the other side, it will certainly affect the same PC where PCARS is running (it would be the same if you stream the traffic to a single IP), that's indeed normal and it depends by your specs, if your PC (our your router) can't handle the load, I recommend to lower the update frequency.
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  6. #6
    Superkart Pilot graveltrap's Avatar
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    I have no idea how this stuff works, I can only report what I have seen.

    My PS4 that is running the game is hard wired to the router, so I guess the problem is with that device.

  7. #7
    IT Manager Vittorio Rapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graveltrap View Post
    My PS4 that is running the game is hard wired to the router, so I guess the problem is with that device.
    Probably the router cannot handle the speed of the data sent by the PS4, but that's another issue (related to router), it's not because of a traffic sent on the broadcast address rather than a specific IP, in other words it's not related to this thread (or the concerns of the OP).
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  8. #8
    WMD Member ermo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio Rapa View Post
    I'm not sure how the UDP traffic could affect the capability of a device to connect via WiFi (if anything it could affect the traffic, not the connection to the router), and even if it affects the router (ie: the router software can't handle the stream), those devices aren't connected to the network at all, so the cause couldn't be them being "flooded" by some UDP traffic.
    On the other side, it will certainly affect the same PC where PCARS is running (it would be the same if you stream the traffic to a single IP), that's indeed normal and it depends by your specs, if your PC (our your router) can't handle the load, I recommend to lower the update frequency.
    Can we agree that e.g. WiFi is Carrier Detect Multiple Access with Collision Detection (CDMA/CD), right? So in theory, it is possible for the PS4 to hog the carrier media if you broadcast continuously onto a WiFi network, such that other WiFi devices connected to the AP will trigger the exponential backoff algorithm in their network stacks when they try to connect and find the media occupied by the UDP packets?

    It wouldn't surprise me to hear that this was an issue to people who have no clue how a WiFi network works on a technical level (and why it is essentially the worst possible form of networking equipment -- hello BNC 10base2 thin ethernet). It's completely different if you have a wired and switched network, of course!
    Last edited by ermo; 18-12-2015 at 14:04.
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  9. #9
    IT Manager Vittorio Rapa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vittorio Rapa View Post
    I'm not sure how the UDP traffic could affect the capability of a device to connect via WiFi (if anything it could affect the traffic, not the connection to the router), and even if it affects the router (ie: the router software can't handle the stream), those devices aren't connected to the network at all, so the cause couldn't be them being "flooded" by some UDP traffic.
    On the other side, it will certainly affect the same PC where PCARS is running (it would be the same if you stream the traffic to a single IP), that's indeed normal and it depends by your specs, if your PC (our your router) can't handle the load, I recommend to lower the update frequency.
    Can we agree that e.g. WiFi is Carrier Detect Multiple Access with Collision Detection (CDMA/CD), right? So in theory, it is possible for the PS4 to hog the carrier media if you broadcast continuously onto a WiFi network, such that other WiFi devices connected to the AP will trigger the exponential backoff algorithm in their network stacks when they try to connect and find the media occupied by the UDP packets?

    It wouldn't surprise me to hear that this was an issue to people who have no clue how a WiFi network works on a technical level (and why it is essentially the worst possible form of networking equipment -- hello BNC 10base2 thin ethernet). It's completely different if you have a wired and switched network, of course!
    It's more likely that the network traffic is hogging that router CPU (it's not uncommon, whenever it normally happens when there's some heavy traffic involved, like p2p applications and such), since he specified that his PS4 is wire connected to the router, the WiFi is not directly affected by the traffic.
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  10. #10
    WMD Member MikeyTT's Avatar
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    So I'm no networking expert by any means, but what you're (OP) suggesting is to go from broadcast to unicast?, i.e. from sending to all devices in the network, to just a list of devices.

    This will potentially increase the traffic on the network. For each slice of telemetry data a broadcast, or multicast for that matter, will send only once for as many clients as you like to consume that on. By targeting specific devices, you are sending that slice of telemetry data to each one. No overhead if you have 1 device, but for every one you add, that's doubling/tripling the traffic on the wire. If you're lucky enough to have a switch segmenting the traffic that's not too bad, other than it's more traffic from the console. But if you're sat on a single wireless segment, as I imagine a lot of peeps will be, then it will just compound the problem.

    Not to mention trying to explain to a lot of non-technical people how to get their devices IP address, put it in the pCars UI, and what happens if the DHCP address changes, etc. That would be a bad solution IMO.
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