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Thread: 1988 McClaren MP4/4 or similar mods?

  1. #1
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    1988 McClaren MP4/4 or similar mods?

    I've just driven around classic Hock, in the MP4/4 released today for Assetto Corsa. And... Well... It was incredible!

    Will we EVER see mods like this come to PCars, or even a legit classic F1 (FA) style DLC?

    I enjoy PCars, I just wish it was open to mods like AC is. AC is producing some of the most sensational moments in my sim racing experiences.

    So my question:
    Will SMS ever consider open the game up more to modders, to keep interest over the years?
    Will SMS perhaps add classic F1 (FA) DLC?

    Will modders consider adding cars like this to the game, or porting them over?
    Can cars be ported to PCars in the same sense that cars can be ported rot AC?

  2. #2
    WMD Member Shinzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreamyDischarge View Post
    I've just driven around classic Hock, in the MP4/4 released today for Assetto Corsa. And... Well... It was incredible!

    Will we EVER see mods like this come to PCars, or even a legit classic F1 (FA) style DLC?

    I enjoy PCars, I just wish it was open to mods like AC is. AC is producing some of the most sensational moments in my sim racing experiences.

    So my question:
    Will SMS ever consider open the game up more to modders, to keep interest over the years?
    Will SMS perhaps add classic F1 (FA) DLC?

    Will modders consider adding cars like this to the game, or porting them over?
    Can cars be ported to PCars in the same sense that cars can be ported rot AC?
    ....Modders are already in the process of adding cars to Pcars...

    There's already a very high quality 2015 R8 LMS mod :\
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzah View Post
    ....Modders are already in the process of adding cars to Pcars...

    There's already a very high quality 2015 R8 LMS mod :\
    Yea, I know. But there have only ever been 2 cars added to PCars via external mods, and they were both variations of cars already in the game.

    Yet there have been literally hundreds created and/or ported to AC as its so easily done.

    My point was/is will we see cars like this in PCars via ports etc, will SMS open the game up to mods like AC or are we still having to use unlockers to activate mods etc..

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    SMS wont open up the game for modding because the game isnt designed from ground up to be mod friendly. Similarly for R3E and AMS despite all are based on ISI Motor that was the engine used for rfactor.

    AC had hundreds of mods but the problem with it is, there are only a handful are good. Mak Corp did really well with MP4/4 while there are literally dozens of really awful open wheel mods out there.

    I still rather see SMS add these content via official DLC than depending on modders.
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  5. #5
    WMD Member Shinzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreamyDischarge View Post
    Yea, I know. But there have only ever been 2 cars added to PCars via external mods, and they were both variations of cars already in the game.

    Yet there have been literally hundreds created and/or ported to AC as its so easily done.

    My point was/is will we see cars like this in PCars via ports etc, will SMS open the game up to mods like AC or are we still having to use unlockers to activate mods etc..
    I have to side with Cheesenium above. 90-95% of mods I've driven in simulators have been absolutely trash. Some of the cars I've driven in reality are modded in ways that they feel nowhere near accurate at all, and as someone who also has worked and continues to work in creating graphics assets - Maybe a half of a percent of the models modders use are legally theirs to use in the first place. Many models are stolen from other sources or authors, or ripped from other titles.

    This is a nightmare for developers and for car manufacturers and as Pcars is a multi-platform title, SMS probably wants to keep solid relationships with manufacturers and many of them will not, or will charge exuberantly for licensing fees if they know the platform is moddable.

    Will you see hundreds of car mods for Pcars? No. Probably not. But when a nickle on the dollar are even worth driving to someone remotely interested in simulation - that's a good thing. Not having an easily moddable platform means that those who do make the effort will put in much more diligent work in their creations opposed to ripping off someone elses model and some physics that don't represent the car at all and flogging it up on some site with a few dozen of the same clones.

    Also, the 2015 R8 LMS is next to nothing like the one SMS created. The cars leap from 2014 to 2015 and 2016 was massive in technology and driving style.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzah View Post
    I have to side with Cheesenium above. 90-95% of mods I've driven in simulators have been absolutely trash. Some of the cars I've driven in reality are modded in ways that they feel nowhere near accurate at all, and as someone who also has worked and continues to work in creating graphics assets - Maybe a half of a percent of the models modders use are legally theirs to use in the first place. Many models are stolen from other sources or authors, or ripped from other titles.

    This is a nightmare for developers and for car manufacturers and as Pcars is a multi-platform title, SMS probably wants to keep solid relationships with manufacturers and many of them will not, or will charge exuberantly for licensing fees if they know the platform is moddable.

    Will you see hundreds of car mods for Pcars? No. Probably not. But when a nickle on the dollar are even worth driving to someone remotely interested in simulation - that's a good thing. Not having an easily moddable platform means that those who do make the effort will put in much more diligent work in their creations opposed to ripping off someone elses model and some physics that don't represent the car at all and flogging it up on some site with a few dozen of the same clones.

    Also, the 2015 R8 LMS is next to nothing like the one SMS created. The cars leap from 2014 to 2015 and 2016 was massive in technology and driving style.
    I'm sorry, but the "let's make it hard to mod so that the only mods created are real quality stuff" reasoning is ridiculous. First because despite that, you can already find "trash mods" (new cars with stolen model and bad physics) out there. Secondly because it also make it unnecessarily harder to make good mods, as evidenced by the fact that it took 9 fucking months (!) to get an easy-to-use Custom Liveries + Custom Grid tool. That is very bad for the modding scene in pCars, and the reason why there is only one top-quality modding team in pCars atm, and while I love their work I have a hard figuring out why they went for pCars instead of AC or another sim (as they say themselves on their site : "We're setting out to the pretty much impossible at the moment. Create new content for free for Project CARS."). Thirdly because I don't the issue with having a lot of shit mods and a few good ones : that's the law of the market, eventually people only play the good mods. Finally because by making modding hard SMS is alienating the PC users, and since pCars doesn't nearly have the size, fundings, and legitimacy to compete in the GT/Forza category, this is a bad decision to make (just look at all the comments on RaceDepartment when something pCars-related is released).

    I think it'd be nice to get real and just admit that the reason pCars is so hard to mod is the consequence of a voluntary and rational decision by the devs, who wanted to make it impossible to mod. As expected, no game is impossible to mod.

  7. #7
    WMD Member T0MMY's Avatar
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    I think getting it to be as mod friendly as AC needs a whole engine rewrite, the one pCARS has now works just fine and I don't think pCARS need mods as much as AC when it first released. Getting an engine like this at this stage to be moddable is not really possible or financially possible as well, Saints Row IV was announced to have SDK and be moddable but the game engine was designed to be not moddable in the first place. Almost 2 years since the game release, the only modding tool the dev manage to push out is replacing existing in game gun models.

    It is nice to have mods but finding good mods alone is a problem, having them kept updated and not conflict to each other is another fuss. I still remember the boring nights I have to test each and every mod I downloaded for Skyrim just hoping it doesn't screw up the whole thing. Being able to mod is just a nice option to have, it won't break the game if it doesn't have mods.

    Having it hard to mod won't really stop people, SHIFT 2 uses the same engine and it has a huge pile of poor mods and only a small amount of decent ones.
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    I think 95% of the so-called "mods" in Assetto Corsa are any conversations. But no real mods. All driving is similar.
    In Project Cars is mostly about selling licenses. I think WMD does not want an open modding culture. You can see that already in mind that you only have 1 Cutomer Skins per car. With the Audi R8 LMS Mod but you can see that it is possible to add more skins.
    The McLaren and Senna rights have been granted exclusive.

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    WMD Member T0MMY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedracer1893 View Post
    I think 95% of the so-called "mods" in Assetto Corsa are any conversations. But no real mods. All driving is similar.
    In Project Cars is mostly about selling licenses. I think WMD does not want an open modding culture. You can see that already in mind that you only have 1 Cutomer Skins per car. With the Audi R8 LMS Mod but you can see that it is possible to add more skins.
    The McLaren and Senna rights have been granted exclusive.
    Having multiple custom skins was one of the feature that was discussed and planned for pCARS 1 post release but probably something happened (like custom championships) and it never came back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otherworld View Post
    I think it'd be nice to get real and just admit that the reason pCars is so hard to mod is the consequence of a voluntary and rational decision by the devs, who wanted to make it impossible to mod. As expected, no game is impossible to mod.
    SMS first started as a modding team so why would they want to prevent modding when modding is part of what "trained" them into professional developers? If they are preventing modding, they wouldnt have release UDP streaming for apps or close off the "loop holes" that allowed custom grid and custom liveries which they did nothing about it. Heck, even in the R8GT3 thread, Ian Bell did said that they do not mind modding but they will not support it because of lack of resources to create the tools and expose the codes for modding. I dont know where did you get that SMS deliberately discourage modding.

    We, WMD, we wanted modding since day 1 where both SMS and WMD had agreed on that we wont get modding as the engine needs an overhaul to officially support modding. Modding isnt only open up the code and let anyone tweak it, you need to create tools and expose internal workings of an engine to allow it to happen that will take money and man power to do so. In the mean time, obtain the license or permission to release some of their licensed developer tools(like Scaleform in some games) to the public. At the end, it is more of a matter of lack of time to do so than SMS disallow modding. AC made some good decisions in their engine by building it moddable from ground up but not every developer could do the same to their engine.

    Heck, even games like AMS and R3E that shares the core customisable engine as rfactor and pcars did not officially support modding. R3E is literally impossible to mod till now while AMS is dropping official modding as they are updating some core engine functionalities that will close off modding.

    Modding is a nice to have feature that adds longevity, I wont count on it for more consistent content as most mods never made up to release or they are poor quality as developing a car is a lot more complicated than it was 10 years ago. AC has a lot of good mods, there are even more mods that are either dead such as Ginetta G55 GT4 and Honda NSX or they take ages to release such as Mazda 787B, Nissan Primera BTCC or Camaro GT3. I bought AC since early access, the amount of mods I am still using now are extremely little because most of them are awful or rarely updated. More importantly, even a lot of the high quality mods isnt even close to the quality of official content by Kunos because most modders does not have access to the manufacturer data to the point that MP4/4 is literally a creative expression of that car due to lack of actual data.
    Last edited by Cheesenium; 21-02-2016 at 12:13.

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