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Thread: Lotus 98T [Case Study][Tune Guide] on Zolder & Sakitto GP

  1. #1
    Kart Driver Xraider's Avatar
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    Lotus 98T [Case Study][Tune Guide] on Zolder & Sakitto GP

    Hi! I'm here to shed some light on how to tune the fearsome monster that is the Lotus 98Twin Turbo - Senna's Legendary Vehicle. Not too long ago, I could barely beat the AI at 50%, but with this tune 100% is easy and record lap times are possible (I'm a terrible driver). So, I decided to write this up to help out.

    This will be a case study that will describe problems with the car on the track followed by tuning solutions. The goal is to demonstrate not only how to tune this turbo car, but a general approach to all tuning.


    Objective: Fast and Consistent lap times on track Zolder with Lotus 98T Turbo.
    Personal Record: 1:17:445 with 26L of Fuel(fuel consumption off) & 4.7 Wastegate Pressure.
    This would be #5 on Time trial (top 4%), but they use 5L of fuel and likely full 6.0 Wastegate. We're making a tune for longer races capable of not blowing the engine.
    Physical Input: PS4 Controller (tapping type player style)
    Setup: http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/74470224

    1st DRIVE: You take your default tune of the Lotus and take a drive (enough to gain some heat in tires). Set the weather to whatever you will be racing. I start with Clear Skies and 12pm (sunlight) during September(personal choice).
    Observations:
    • Front Tires are too cool (far from 100C). Brakes are strong, the back doesn't give out when hard braking without turning (you would normally strengthen brakes if the back is fine on straight braking.). The brake duct seems a bit too hot (reaching 700C fast).

    Response:
    • Lower Front tire pressure, Symmetrically. Lower the rear slightly.
    • Open the brake duct to 70%.


    2nd DRIVE: We want to drive, because a major change like tire pressure demands test drives.
    Observations:
    • When you punch the throttle, the car starts to push toward left or right; then the front doesn't respond for a very short amount of time to your input. The result is that you keep turning to correct, then the car oversteers...you move the wheel toward opposite side...and cause a complete spinout.

    Response:
    • You can try changing the weight bias toward the front, since it's losing traction.
      This however does little to solve your problem and causes the entries of turns to feel worse with oversteer.
    • Limited Slip Acceleration Lock comes into play. (My final value was 5%, extreme because of controller input. Choose your own.)
      What is it? So, at 100% wheels spin at the same speed, which ends with inner-wheels losing grip on turns causing power oversteer, which is why drift cars have high diff slip. (link)
      What about no lock? If your left wheel have little grip (puddle) and your right wheel has all the grip, then the differential will put all the power into the left wheel. It thus means that a differential ensures that the drive of the engine takes the path of least resistance, so it drives what is easiest. So, basically the exact opposite effect. I think this opposite effect works for us because of the body lean; the engine power is transferred more toward the loose gripped wheel and less on the gripped wheel. Thus, less oversteer is created from the high gripped wheel.


    3rd DRIVE: We need to drive, because we changed the Acc. Lock.
    Observations:
    • Things seem better. However, we generally lose the front.

    Response:
    • We loosen the front spring to 45.
    • We could also tighten the rear (reasoning will be clear in next section), but after lots of drives you might notice that the back doesn't get the best traction up on the hill section of Zolder.


    4th DRIVE: Spring changes warrant more driving. Watch out of bottoming out, chassis hitting the road? Fine on my end.
    Observations:
    • Things should seem better. However, we're not getting enough traction in the front wheel fast enough on acceleration. The car seems to be automatically commiting to either left or right and then pushing that way if you hold throttle (of course you can drive better to correct, but we can tune better also).

    Response:
    • This one is a bit complex. Bear with me, it'll be worth it.


    Consider the following chart of Velocity vs. Time through Gears (of some unknown car).
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I don't have a chart of Acceleration vs. Time, but you can imagine what it would look like (1st derivative/tangent line). The acceleration in the first gear would start very HIGH from 0, then it would plummet right near gear shift up. These huge differences in acceleration can be called "Jerks" in physics. Which can be considered like burst G's on the car.
    So, imagine being in this car accelerating from 0 to 60. You get pushed back into your seat from the burst of acceleration, then there is this huge release of G-force on gear shift. The car does a similar motion, it pushes back on the back spring; and then, it pushes forward on the front spring.
    No Acceleration:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Strong Acceleration (Pushed into seat):
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Acceleration Pauses (Release of Pushed-into-seat):
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    The opposite would happen on hard brake. Think of when you drive a car...hard brake (pushed into seatbelt)...and release the brake when the car is at full stop...you fall back into your seat. So, the pictures would be in opposite order for braking.

    Now, back to our Lotus98T problems. Acceleration focused.

    In the second picture, we're getting too much Spring Compression in the rear and losing traction in front.
    • Solution: Slow Rear Bump (Compression) RAISED to 6400 from 5400.
      There is a finer detail here. The car is compressing the rear, but also having some wheel spin toward 1 side (some left over g-force from recent turn, soft swaybar) - that spin creates a chassis bias to 1 side because of the soft original setting (You end up flicking the steering wheel to opposite side to fling the chassis straight). So, by stiffening the rear like this, we lessen this bias.
    • Solution: Slow Front Rebound (Expansion) RAISED to 4400 from 3800.
      This creates a slower expansion rate in front.

    In the third picture, we're not getting enough traction from the front. Remember the car is rear biased, and really tends to stick to the back on huge acceleration. Also, note that this third picture is what the car would be experiencing during Braking.
    • Solution: Slow Rear Rebound (Expansion) RAISED to 8200 from 7600.
      Rear expands at a slower rate than before. Smooth transition.
    • Solution: Slow Front Bump (Compression) LOWERED to 3100 from 3500 (Fights rear bias & better turn-in on brake).


    5th DRIVE: Lots of changes, need to feel them. Again, pay attention to chassis hitting road. If you do AND spinout, then you need to tighten some springs/dampers (maybe we went overboard)
    Observations:
    • We're losing traction on high speed turns.
    • There is oversteer at neutral (No throttle or brake).

    Response:
    • Traction at high speed is directly linked to your front and rear wings. I chose to raise them to 8.0 both (might be controller related), the balance between the two seems fine so there is no variation (if you feel understeer: higher front value/lower back value).
    • Oversteer at neutral is related to Limited Slip Preload. To fight oversteer, we raise the value to 120.


    6th DRIVE: Drive some more to feel things out. Touch kerbs a bit (legally) and hit some bumpy areas of the track.
    Observations:
    • Some of the kerbs really cause some difficulty, maybe even some spintouts. We need consistent lap times!

    Response:
    • Fast Front Bump LOWERED to 1360 from 1440. This will definately help.
    • Fast Rear Bump LOWERED to 2800 from 2880 (not too much, because we've had traction loss in front before).
    • Fast Front Rebound LOWERED to 1840 from 1960 (gets front back faster).
    • Fast Rear Rebound RAISED to 4160 from 3920 (smooth transition).


    Final Adjustments/Thoughts:
    I changed the Final Drive to 3.09 (max speed) because of all the straights and the overwhelming acceleration power of this car.

    Why didn't you change Swaybars?
    Tight sway bars increase the frequency, and hence make your car respond to your turning inputs faster (near maximum lateral G-force areas) - making it more jittery. I felt the last thing this car needed was to become more responsive to my micro adjustments when driving (Controller players constantly do micro adjustments).
    I think some people thought tightening the back sway bar and softening the front sway bar would help them fight that over-commitment to turning on acceleration (in terms of fighting the weight shift). Maybe I'm wrong, but it would seem adjusting the dampers is the more pertinent choice.

    What about Limited Slip Dec. Lock?
    This only applies when we break and turn into a corner - specifically if you're beginning to lose traction in the back. This wasn't observed.

    What about alignment?
    I have limited success with these on a PS4 controller at this time. Hope to get better in the future. Based on other guides, these don't matter as much as other settings in Project Cars (not including Steering Ratio, mine was set to Fastest for gamepad here).

    If you got this far, thank you for reading! Happy driving!
    Last edited by Xraider; 13-07-2016 at 05:59. Reason: Adding some finer points.
    The following 5 users likes this Post: beetes_juice, Diamond_Eyes, F1_Racer68, foxx76, spacepadrille


  2. #2
    Kart Driver Xraider's Avatar
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    By request, I decided to do this type of case study for the track Sakitto. It's a track with lots of curves of varying speeds. We will build upon our setup from Zolder, and perhaps learn more in the process. Let's drive!

    Objective: Fast and Consistent lap times on track Sakitto with Lotus 98T Turbo.
    Personal Record: 1:24:791 with 26L of Fuel(fuel consumption off) & 4.7 Wastegate Pressure. [Beat AI 100% fairly easily. Again, I'm not a good driver. I touched sand twice btwn Turn 8 and Turn 9.]
    This would be #16 on Time trial (top 10%), but they use 5L of fuel and likely full 6.0 Wastegate. We're making a tune for longer races capable of not blowing the engine.
    Physical Input: PS4 Controller (tapping type player style)
    Setup: http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/166015265

    First, let's take a look at the map. Turns are noted in blue as "T#" and end of sectors as T1, T2, and finish line.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Track Breakdown:
    Some important notes about key Turns that we want to accomplish (some of these I learned as I was tuning, this is like a cheat sheet):
    T2 - This right turn has a lateral incline, like an oval track though the degrees are fairly low.
    T6 - Goes up a hill and to the left with some incline. Elevated with incline. (Try lowering throttle, to stop turbo, if you know you're being pushed off from body roll for just a few milliseconds)
    T8 & T9 - make sure you touch kerb here, go straight on throttle asap. So, have to be agile to do this. Some correcting needed on exit of T9 if slightly off.
    T10 - Very fast and rough turn into left with elevation. Elevated with lots of G-force right This turn is a big opportunity against AI, if you can get your car to push into the left kerb/border asap (AI tend to go wide).
    T12 & T13 - This is basically one big turn. You have a period of neutral to 25% throttle here.
    T14 & T15 - Very high speed turns. If you get off throttle here, you lose time. Braking certainly doesn't help.
    (Everything underlined here is meant to suggest that this is key to tuning.)

    Side-Note about Turbo: High RPMs push turbo higher. So, if you feather throttle around 25-70%, you basically operate without turbo. Useful on T6, T10, T12, and T13.

    1st DRIVE: Take the default car setup for a drive. Set weather of race. Mine was 12pm Clear skies in early July.
    Observations:
    • We got the same kind of problems we saw at Zolder. The car is over-committing to the left or right, losing traction on one of the wheels in the rear then power oversteering.
    • Tires are very cold.

    Response:
    • Front Tire pressure to 0.95. Rear Tire pressure to 1.30.
    • Slow Bump Damper: LOWERED at FRONT from 3500 to 3100. RAISED at REAR from 5400 to 7000.
      The reasoning is the same as Zolder. We're fighting the rear's body slanting/tilting to a particular side as well as trying to get the front more sensitive. Only difference is, I tried increasing the stiffness of the back's compression. It feels better, more predictable car.
    • Slow Rebound Damper: LOWERED at FRONT from 3800 to 4400. RAISED at REAR from 7600 to 8800.
      Same as above.
    • Springs: Front to 45, Rear to 72.
      Mostly same reasoning as Zolder. We need the front to be closer to the ground in general with the rear biased car and torque output. Plus oversteer balance helps. (more on this later)
    • Fast Bump Damper: LOWERED at FRONT from 1440 to 1360. LOWERED at REAR from 2880 to 2800.
      Not a lot of reasons to change Fast Damper behavior. These worked great on hard connects with chicane kerbs at Zolder.
    • Fast Rebound Damper: LOWERED at FRONT from 1960 to 1840. RAISED at REAR from 3920 to 4100.


    2nd DRIVE: Things feel better with the car. We're still having trouble with spins on corner exits.
    Observations:
    • Spin on Corner Exit, but already did Dampers and Spring.

    Response:
    • Lower Acc. Lim. Slip to 5% like at Zolder. (We could use swaybars to battle this type of spin. Stay tuned.)


    3rd DRIVE: Car doesn't spin out much. Time to pay attention to corners.
    Observations:
    • Managing the car coming into and out of T9, particularly if you get T9 exit slightly wrong (and need correcting), is very difficult with a swaybar at 50. The chassis is pushing us roughly into on side waits almost a whole second, then violently flings to the other side from opposite steer.

    Response:
    • Our swaybar's frequency is not matching our steering input. We need to stiffen the both swaybars first. Raise both to 70 (balance later).


    4th DRIVE: Body roll has been reduced. More responsive on T9. Pushing limits more.
    Observations:
    • T14 and T15 are hit and miss - too inconsistent. Our rear is getting wheel spin, and our steering is often late and requires laser like precision.
    • T12 & T13 require a good amount of oversteer to do right.

    Response:
    • Rear definitely needs stronger Aero, raise rear wing to 9. Since, we're not robots and need consistent turn hits, raise front wing to 8.
    • Set pre-load to 40, different from Zolder's 120.


    Experimental Side-DRIVE I've done close to 200 laps with this car on this circuit, testing the validity of the values I chose. Something interesting occurs when I tried a looser rear spring.
    If you notice, the telemetry tells us that the front spring suspension travel is 4.2cm and the rear one is a mere 1.7cm (rear bias squeezing spring). Ok, interesting...so what? Well, if you come out hard on T2 with a stiff rear swaybar, your car will "hug" the road very strongly because of the lateral G-force. Then your swaybar will overtake the spring's suspension travel on the rear right. This appears to happen on exit, as your front is basically not on any incline.
    If you imagine your car had no suspensions at all, then your front is on plane zero (at sea level/no variation of z-axis on front right or left) and your rear left is about the same level of z-axis or slightly higher...but your rear right has the lower z-axis...so it's hanging. If it doesn't have the suspension travel distance necessary to reach the road, it has no grip. At the very least, it would have very loose grip.

    For those struggling to understand swaybars:
    Swaybar is basically a bar that functions like a lever connected to both axle's either in the front or the rear as well as the chassis. When the body rolls toward left, the suspension contracts...the distance between the chassis and road shrinks(or axle). The swaybar turns like a lever when this happens on its left side in response to the contraction, then that causes the same contraction to occur on right(the bar is symmetric)...now instead of the spring forcing the swaybar to turn, the swaybar's turn (smaller distance) is forcing the distance between the right axle and chassis to shrink...spring contraction...anti-roll. So, the entire chassis gets closer to the road (hugs the road), and there is less body roll. Keeping all that in mind, watch this youtube It's live swaybar in action(it's the blue bar attached to body and axles).

    5th DRIVE We're looking for any and all improvements
    Observations:
    • We don't know our final drive or gears.
    • Air and Water temperatures are low.
    • Brake temperatures are low.

    Response:
    • Final Drive set to 3.87 and no change in gears (just hot lap testing).
    • Close Radiator air duct completely. Temps remain safe under 100C.
    • Close Brake Duct completely. Temps are safe under 700C (use Project Car's coloring system as a guide, Green=Good).


    6th DRIVE At this point our lap times are close to 1:26:200 or so. Good, but not enough to beat AI 100% comfortably like we did in Zolder. Now, looking for anything to improve. Even though Car drives fine.
    "The whole point of racing is to charge all the time." - Gilles Villeneuve
    Observations:
    • We're struggling to push the car on T6 and T10. On T6, the rear left tire is losing grip on an elevated right turn with a slight incline. Then with T10, if we want to touch the left kerb early and push throttle nearly maxed (limiting some turbo), we're getting understeer.

    Response:
    • For T6, consider that the front spring suspension travel distance is more than twice than that of the rear. When the body rolls right on the fast inclined and elevated turn left, the back hugs the road again but runs out of suspension travel distance in the rear left...and since the road has an incline...this is similar to our experimental drive. We lose grip on the rear left. One solution is to reduce the body roll in the front: Set front swaybar to 80.
      We could also increase the suspension travel distance by strengthening the rear spring. When I drove the stiffer rear spring, the car slid a lot more; for me, that's a difficult car to control...so, I chose the tighter front swaybar solution.


    7th DRIVE Test driving some more.
    Observations:
    • That swaybar adjustment just created more understeer. Not good.

    Response:
    • We can fight back with an even softer front spring. Set front spring to 39.
      An alternative to this could be raising the Rear Ride Height by 5mm. You'd get more aero as a result, so you would correct for that (it's because of rake. More here. Think upside down jet wing, for those who know lift and bernoulli principle.)


    8th DRIVE Final adjustment testing.
    Observations:
    • Can make the final T14 and T15 with less downforce. Maybe an aftereffect of more oversteer added.

    Response:
    • Front wing adjusted to 7, and Rear wing set to 8. ....AND...WE're done tuning!


    Final Notes:
    Lap Time ranking was basically 5th on Zolder and 16th here. Big difference. Why?
    I think the tune is actually fine. Not a lot of time to be gained, without creating an unstable car(for my driving, see more below). The reason the Time Trials are much faster is because 5L of fuel creates less lateral G's effect during turns(I remember reading Project cars models this), and most importantly a stronger Turbo setting which cranks at higher RPM's would benefit more on this acceleration focused track as compared to Zolder. That's what I think anyway. If you have a way to gain time, please write here. I'm always interested in learning more.
    Alignment?
    My Steering ratio is 14.5:1, but that's preference. Caster made straight line steering too slow for me, default seems fine. Camber didn't help much in understeer.
    Increasing Toe-out does seem to help at first glance. You get faster response on slow to medium-high corners, but we lose stability. While I did get a higher lap time by 0.1s, I didn't feel that I could maintain this over 10+ lap races. Just feels like traction is gone, perhaps because of too much forced oversteer from the increased sensitivity to my rough turning.
    What can Wheel/Pedal players do to drive faster?
    Raise the Acc. Lim. Lock and Traction Control. I've seen people drive this car on default with wheel/pedals, that's barely possible for me against 50% AI.
    Last edited by Xraider; 04-07-2016 at 07:08. Reason: Details/Links
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  3. #3
    Superkart Pilot Diamond_Eyes's Avatar
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    Nice post and observations thanks for sharing....

    Jerk: the third derivative of the position vector with respect to time.

    Position > speed (position') > acceleration (position'') > jerk (position''') > jounce (position'''') [using Leibnitz notation]

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The equations of motion. Oh, I love a bit of math
    Last edited by Diamond_Eyes; 28-06-2016 at 13:05.
    We'll grind that axe for a long time... Darrell "Dimebag" Lance Abbott, August 20 August 1966 8 December 2004
    Chi Ling Dai Cheng, 15 July 1970 13 April 2013
    Henry John Surtees, 18 February 1991 - 19 July 2009
    PSN: DiamondEyes179

  4. #4
    Kart Driver Xraider's Avatar
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    Thanks, I've actually never seen jounce. Nice, hehe. I do love me a bit of math, but I was just obsessed with getting this car to drive for me. Such a legendary vehicle.


  5. #5
    Superkart Pilot Diamond_Eyes's Avatar
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    I can see that you really like that 98T beast. Since there is plenty of tumbleweed blowing around this forum at the moment, plz post us another setup diary for another track that is not stop-start. How about Brno, Sakitto or Spa i.e. where you have some more corners. If you have the time of course. Would be interesting to see your observations.
    We'll grind that axe for a long time... Darrell "Dimebag" Lance Abbott, August 20 August 1966 8 December 2004
    Chi Ling Dai Cheng, 15 July 1970 13 April 2013
    Henry John Surtees, 18 February 1991 - 19 July 2009
    PSN: DiamondEyes179

  6. #6
    Kart Driver Xraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond_Eyes View Post
    I can see that you really like that 98T beast. Since there is plenty of tumbleweed blowing around this forum at the moment, plz post us another setup diary for another track that is not stop-start. How about Brno, Sakitto or Spa i.e. where you have some more corners. If you have the time of course. Would be interesting to see your observations.
    I might do Sakitto. Since, it was another one of Senna's good ones. Spa is one of those tracks I'm not particularly good at. I do want to tackle it later on.

    When will I do this? Ehhh, not sure. I haven't beaten career mode yet. Giving it a general drive with this setup soon. I imagine swaybars and pre-load will be my point of interest. Maybe caster angle for turn ability. Tempted to lower the ride as well...Zolder had a big hill...I don't remember a big z-axis thing on Sakitto (at least not as rough as Zolder), that would change everything. Intriguing.
    Will probably post it as a reply in here, don't want to clog up forum..then maybe delete my own filler replies/posts. Keeping the juicy stuff.

    Lotus 98 was also one of those cars that I wanted to get right, but immediately had massive trouble. It kind of forced me to learn tuning. If i come across another car that I like but have lots of trouble controlling, I'll do that as well.
    Last edited by Xraider; 30-06-2016 at 10:13.

  7. #7
    Kart Driver Xraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond_Eyes View Post
    I can see that you really like that 98T beast. Since there is plenty of tumbleweed blowing around this forum at the moment, plz post us another setup diary for another track that is not stop-start. How about Brno, Sakitto or Spa i.e. where you have some more corners. If you have the time of course. Would be interesting to see your observations.
    Ok, deleted the second post. Now, it has the Sakitto write-up.
    Last edited by Xraider; 04-07-2016 at 07:05.

  8. #8
    Moderator F1_Racer68's Avatar
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    Great write ups!

    I really appreciate seeing the thought process others put into their tuning approaches.

    Thanks for sharing.
    CanAm Virtual Racing League - League President Twitter: @canamvrl @F1_Racer68
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  9. #9
    Kart Driver Xraider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1_Racer68 View Post
    Great write ups!

    I really appreciate seeing the thought process others put into their tuning approaches.

    Thanks for sharing.
    Thank you. Good to see people are getting through these big posts. Hehe. I was kinda worried it was getting viewed, but not being really read.

    I think it's pretty amazing how tunes can transform these cars. The car will either fight with you or against you.
    The following user likes this Post: F1_Racer68


  10. #10
    Superkart Pilot Diamond_Eyes's Avatar
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    If I get opportunity at weekend i'll sit down next to your posts and go through your tunes step-by-step. You seem to have a logical & seasoned approach and I can learn a lot so thx for posting. I live here in Maidenhead, UK and literally just down the road are Hewland Engineering who made the gearbox for this car....
    We'll grind that axe for a long time... Darrell "Dimebag" Lance Abbott, August 20 August 1966 8 December 2004
    Chi Ling Dai Cheng, 15 July 1970 13 April 2013
    Henry John Surtees, 18 February 1991 - 19 July 2009
    PSN: DiamondEyes179
    The following user likes this Post: Xraider


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