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Thread: Project CARS 2:What we are 99%-100% certain about.

  1. #241
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmitrych View Post
    RF2 calculates the tire more than 24 hours, because it reproduces the power of a supercomputer on home computer. Totally in real time on a computers the current level does not make a powerful simulation.
    The full complex model, the Quasi-static model is something in the order of 2 million times slower to run than the real-time lookup table. Some people seem to be of the opinion that lookup tables themselves are somehow inferior, but every tyre model in the world compasses some elements of a lookup table, because no tyre model can possibly simulate things at an atomic level. Even then, you would still be implanting some human derived numerical values from somewhere. Until computers reach speeds an order of magnitude higher than we have now, no such models are feasible.
    http://isiforums.net/f/entry.php/18-...e-%28Part-I%29
    This similar situation has been discussed over in the virtual instrument world as well.. a "look up table" in this case is a sample, a recording. Yet there are companies who make great sounding products without "simulating" the whole experience down to the atomic level. It's all about making clever compromises and selecting what is truly important. It also shows that there are real benefits in running real time models instead of look-up-tables/sampled instruments, even if the actual fidelity is lower.

    Check out https://www.pianoteq.com/ as an example. Granted, there are situations where this simulation doesn't quite come as close as a sample based solution but in other situations it is more realistic.

    My point being: Even if real time solutions are technically not as detailed as a look-up-table based solution, it's benefits outweigh the negatives due to it's flexibility. For instance, a look-up-table solution is a real nightmare if you want to have a properly simulated real-time weather system that is as detailed as we have now in pC2 where puddles and dirt/mud are happening. Just simulating "every possible scenario" that a tire can go through is a monumental task in a look-up-table based solution. ISI conveniently haven't discussed the real downsides of their solution.. luckily Niels Heusinkveld discusses some of these issues on his youtube channel and basically comes to the conclusion that the rF2 tire model system is unnecessary complex considering it's limitations. Then again, he may be just making excuses as Reiza are stuck using the old system (albeit a heavily modified one).

    EDIT: oh and one more benefit with the real time model is that SMS get "true" Research & Development information from this and it's going to scale very well with future hardware and software advances. In short, it's just simply smarter to do it this way when you look at it as an investment of R&D.
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  2. #242
    Moderator Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmitrych View Post
    Even then, you would still be implanting some human derived numerical values from somewhere. Until computers reach speeds an order of magnitude higher than we have now, no such models are feasible.
    Mostly true.. However, if one physics engine has 50% less static data; does that make it 50% better than the others?
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  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Bell View Post
    Weeks not months. So as per our tweets, very soon now

    The ancient screenies are killing me BTW. It looks so much better now with more to come until beta.
    So 4 weeks is usually one month so therefore 8 weeks will be 2 months, so im guessing something official will appear in less than an 8 weeks otherwise the weeks will turn into months lol
    The hype has well and truly started now I keep seeing all these 'guessing games' coming up on twitter and fb about when Pcars2 is gonna arrive lol AWESOME!!!
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  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
    ISI conveniently haven't discussed the real downsides of their solution..
    It would be interesting if Michael Borda and someone from pcars engineers to debate about this, not just users. But for rF2 there is some information from the blog of engineer Michael Borda. There are some known technical facts: the tire model is made up of real-time section and the quasistatic sample that can be used in calculations of 2 million times more than just real-time model. Of course you can fully translate and calculations in real time, but in the foreseeable future computers of ordinary users are not ready for it. In general, the new owners plan to add to rF2 the ability to connect different tire models. They will start with rf1 model, later, perhaps, add some other models. It is difficult to say which approach is better, pcars2 or rf2, without all of the information)

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Bell View Post
    Your English is fine. You're looking at replays and we do have fidelity issues there. We are working on them. What you watch in replays isn't what is happening real time. It's an abstracted 'capture'.
    Ian,

    thank you for your quick answer! But what i mean is not only the Replay,
    i mean the live cam to.

    In the near future for a real E-Sport Racing Simulation, and i promise pCars2 can
    get this status and titel, the Quality of the Live Cam, Stream, Live TV, is a great
    point. And in this area, pcars still has some improvements to do.

    Look live Streams or Replays from title like iRacing, RRE, Assetto or the Replays
    from Forza on PC. All the Cars have still a verry smooth, realistic and naturally
    Movement.

    When i switch in pCars to a another car and switch to TV Cam, the car
    movements do not look natural and realistic, too stuttering and mechanical,
    sorry ian, One sees simply too much different.

    This makes the other titles just better. And I am writing this here, in the hope
    that you and your whole Team, focus on this area again in pCars2. Also in the
    Multiplayer Online Code, to make a big step forward in prof. Online Racing.

    Thank you for your attention good succeed!
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  6. #246
    WMD Member Sampo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfscastle View Post
    When i switch in pCars to a another car and switch to TV Cam, the car
    movements do not look natural and realistic, too stuttering and mechanical,
    sorry ian, One sees simply too much different.
    The AI cars don't use the same physics engine as the player car.
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  7. #247
    WMD Member MaximusN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampo View Post
    The AI cars don't use the same physics engine as the player car.
    I think they look fine when you drive near a car, so that shouldn't be the reason. And it's mostly the tires that are dumbed down, so that shouldn't cause too big of a difference in how the driving looks from the outside.
    If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.

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  8. #248
    Superkart Pilot DreamsKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfscastle View Post
    Ian,

    thank you for your quick answer! But what i mean is not only the Replay,
    i mean the live cam to.

    In the near future for a real E-Sport Racing Simulation, and i promise pCars2 can
    get this status and titel, the Quality of the Live Cam, Stream, Live TV, is a great
    point. And in this area, pcars still has some improvements to do.

    Look live Streams or Replays from title like iRacing, RRE, Assetto or the Replays
    from Forza on PC. All the Cars have still a verry smooth, realistic and naturally
    Movement.

    When i switch in pCars to a another car and switch to TV Cam, the car
    movements do not look natural and realistic, too stuttering and mechanical,
    sorry ian, One sees simply too much different.

    This makes the other titles just better. And I am writing this here, in the hope
    that you and your whole Team, focus on this area again in pCars2. Also in the
    Multiplayer Online Code, to make a big step forward in prof. Online Racing.

    Thank you for your attention good succeed!
    i agree and it's my hope too. i see lot of people having great fun with horrible mods in other titles just cause the netcode and side by side racing is better.
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  9. #249
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmitrych View Post
    It would be interesting if Michael Borda and someone from pcars engineers to debate about this, not just users. But for rF2 there is some information from the blog of engineer Michael Borda. There are some known technical facts: the tire model is made up of real-time section and the quasistatic sample that can be used in calculations of 2 million times more than just real-time model. Of course you can fully translate and calculations in real time, but in the foreseeable future computers of ordinary users are not ready for it. In general, the new owners plan to add to rF2 the ability to connect different tire models. They will start with rf1 model, later, perhaps, add some other models. It is difficult to say which approach is better, pcars2 or rf2, without all of the information)
    You make it sound like ISI are doing something "unique" and new. They aren't.. perhaps in the field of tire modeling but in other fields this is a debate that has been going on for decades.
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  10. #250
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    I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, and if it isn't I apologize, but do we know if pCars 2 will have independent triple screen rendering like AC ? I have to admit that my time spent on AC has severely gone up since I switched to triple monitors, simply because of the proper triple screen management of AC, and that has been at the expense of pCars.

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