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Thread: Camber. What's the deal?

  1. #1
    Superkart Pilot
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    Camber. What's the deal?

    Why are you encouraged to run minimum camber in this game?






    Positions 1-12 on the Bugatti circuit TT are all from my league.
    http://cars-stats-steam.wmdportal.co...cle=2588707625

    The setups we are using.

    Camber F: -1.0 R: 0


    Camber F: 0 R: 0



    Camber F: 0 R: 0



    How is this a thing?
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  2. #2
    Kart Driver Ptyochromis's Avatar
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    More camber doesn't always equal more grip. It depends a lot on the tire, suspension of the car and track. IRL more camber doesn't automatically give you faster lap times.

    Giving only 2 different lap times with 2 different alignments doesn't really say much. It would say more if you showed many consecutive and consistent (within 0.01 sec of each other) laps and the splits with each alignment.

  3. #3
    GT3 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptyochromis View Post
    ...
    Giving only 2 different lap times with 2 different alignments doesn't really say much. It would say more if you showed many consecutive and consistent (within 0.01 sec of each other) laps and the splits with each alignment.
    That's a tough ask! It's hard enough to lap consistently on the limit within 0.2 second even for a professional on a simulator rig.
    I agree a fairer comparison would be average lap times, maybe with and without tyre wear (off vs 3x maybe to accelerate the process?).

    This does highlight an issue present for TT.
    Which I care 0 about.
    No evidence but just personal preference: I tried the minimum/0 camber exploit and found I'm less consistent in it over a series of laps. Synystr is probably a much better driver than me so: video request! How's a race car go over a stint with and without camber
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  4. #4
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    Weird, I find it really easy to lap consistently in pCars.. perhaps not going 100% balls out but that's never a good strategy anyhow in a longer race. You drive for consistency and having each lap within 0.2 seconds is not at all uncommon, definitely not for real professionals (which I am not haha).

    As for the Camber thing, it used to be a big exploit, that you got a lot more speed on straights but that was fixed. It may still be a tiny bit faster (so that it makes a difference) but I find it much easier to drive with quite a bit of camber. There's more "bite" to the tire through corners when I have proper camber setup. This is especially noticeable in some of the single seaters like Formula C and Formula B. I've tried to use the exploit myself but I just can't seem to be consistent with no camber.
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  5. #5
    Kart Driver Ptyochromis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkraft300 View Post
    That's a tough ask! It's hard enough to lap consistently on the limit within 0.2 second even for a professional on a simulator rig.
    I agree a fairer comparison would be average lap times, maybe with and without tyre wear (off vs 3x maybe to accelerate the process?).

    This does highlight an issue present for TT.
    Which I care 0 about.
    No evidence but just personal preference: I tried the minimum/0 camber exploit and found I'm less consistent in it over a series of laps. Synystr is probably a much better driver than me so: video request! How's a race car go over a stint with and without camber
    Yeah, it is a tall order but without getting an idea of where the performance is; 2 different laps mean little. (not to mention we don't even know what car it is).

    I'm not even sure that what Pcars has isn't real world modeling of tire behavior. I know games like forza have exaggerated the effects that camber has on cornering speeds.

  6. #6
    GT3 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Most definitely. 2 laps is not representative.
    10 laps should give a better idea. You can average the lap times and what not. Tyre wear off would give a good indicator or lap time performance and consistency.
    I'd be interested to see how the tyre wear fares too. I wonder if the drop off in lap times/consistency is greater with 0 camber.
    Then different cars is a factor too: something like a BMW 320 TC can get away with high camber with little regard for tyre wear because It's a sprinter. GT3 and LMP cars have fat tyres and run endurance.
    Also high speed vs low speed, soft springs vs stiff you'd want different camber again.
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
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  7. #7
    Kart Driver
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    I tried lowering it to 0.0 on both ends for my Bentley Continental gt3 setup @ Catalunya.
    Instantly went within 1 second of the alien WR after a few laps (instead of within 2s). Traction in acceleration and braking zones was definitively improved, but I didn't feel too much deterioration in the drivability in high load corners.
    Hope this kind of exploits are no longer a thing in pCars 2.

  8. #8
    GT3 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Depending on suspension design you get +/- camber through suspension travel. So some cars will benefit more from it than others.
    Maybe the low cap on flash heating and tyre wear is making it easy to run 0 camber?
    I'm hoping to see the "exploit" gone too.
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
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  9. #9
    Superkart Pilot
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    I don't know if there is a camber exploit anymore, some car/track combinations can just utilize camber adjustments more.Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #10
    GT3 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    That's true.
    The original camber exploit was that the rolling resistance parameters were wrong in the tyre model. Too low resistance at 0 camber or too high with camber. One or the other. That got an adjustment in an early patch.
    Can't imagine it's an easy thing to get right or test.
    "Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."
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