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Thread: career mode - missed opportunity

  1. #11
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    So, in his reasoning behind having scripted career weather, Stephen said something to the effect of "because of how we track player progression, it's not really fair if players have vastly different experiences".

    Can anyone explain what he's talking about? Because that really doesn't make any sense to me. I thought the whole idea behind career mode is to have different experiences...to start in whatever discipline you want, progress through the ranks how you see fit, etc? I don't see how having non-scripted weather would compromise someone's experience. In fact, I would imagine it to be quite the opposite. Of course you don't want to have a thunderstorm in Dubai or a blizzard at Laguna Seca, but if it was scripted in such a way that silliness such as that were not allowed to occur, and variation could only occur amongst weather that you might reasonably expect to find in the real world at that location and date, I'm sure I would find that to be a much more enjoyable experience.

    Codemasters does this very well with the F1 series of games...you play the same tracks in the same order every season, but you never know exactly what to expect weather-wise, from one season to the next. This keeps it exciting and breaks the monotony of feeling like you're doing the exact same thing, over and over. Which, in fact, was one of the things I hated most about PC1 Career...doing the LMP1 Championship four times in a row to get the Defending Champ achievement...and knowing exactly what to expect for every single session...it was monotonous to say the least, and felt like a very poor design decision. It's disappointing to me to see that the same decision was made for PCARS2, especially given the fact that I don't have very many online friends that I play with, and tend to stick to single player/career modes with most games.

    I'll still play it of course, but between the scripted weather and how contracts don't really seem to matter (being able to pick absolutely anything you want), it sounds like career still hasn't quite hit the mark.
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  2. #12
    Moderator Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trippul G View Post
    So, in his reasoning behind having scripted career weather, Stephen said something to the effect of "because of how we track player progression, it's not really fair if players have vastly different experiences".
    Probably talking about players getting randomly more rain or other inclement weather than other players (i.e. some players could have a harder time for unlocking achievements than others and achievement hunters are a big thing these days). I don't think it really matters the reasons, it is what it is at the end of the day.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trippul G View Post
    So, in his reasoning behind having scripted career weather, Stephen said something to the effect of "because of how we track player progression, it's not really fair if players have vastly different experiences".

    Can anyone explain what he's talking about? Because that really doesn't make any sense to me. I thought the whole idea behind career mode is to have different experiences...to start in whatever discipline you want, progress through the ranks how you see fit, etc? I don't see how having non-scripted weather would compromise someone's experience.
    Hear, hear

    I don't buy that explanation either - if he'd say something like "we ran out of time", "we had to focus assets elsewhere", "we like it this way", "it introduced too many bugs", that would be believable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trippul G View Post
    one of the things I hated most about PC1 Career...doing the LMP1 Championship four times in a row to get the Defending Champ achievement...and knowing exactly what to expect for every single session...it was monotonous to say the least, and felt like a very poor design decision.
    So much this. Achievements need to mean something. You unlock the achievement and..... and what? nothing? a text box? that's it? This is elementary game design.

    They already have achievements, and these need to unlock something significant within the career mode - like a team in a higher tier that is super picky about who they give contracts to. Be creative.
    Last edited by Javaniceday; 09-09-2017 at 01:36.

  4. #14
    GTE Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trippul G View Post
    So, in his reasoning behind having scripted career weather, Stephen said something to the effect of "because of how we track player progression, it's not really fair if players have vastly different experiences".
    My guess is it's for the "achievements" and "trophies" culture of today's gaming.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    I don't buy that explanation either - if he'd say something like "we ran out of time", "we had to focus assets elsewhere", "we like it this way", "it introduced too many bugs", that would be believable.
    To use F1 as an example again, your goal obviously is to win the championship...but I can't say that I've heard anyone complaining about it having poor and unfair game design because it unexpectedly rained in the final race and they lost the championship as a result. No...you accept that that's racing, and you move on and vow to do better next time. I fail to see why this game should be any different in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    Achievements need to mean something. You unlock the achievement and..... and what? nothing? a text box? that's it? This is elementary game design.

    They already have achievements, and these need to unlock something significant within the career mode - like a team in a higher tier that is super picky about who they give contracts to. Be creative.
    Totally agree. That's kind of the double-edged sword of the "any car, any time, any place" design philosophy. Sure it's great in that you have the freedom to do whatever you want, but in career mode you have to be very careful that it doesn't lead to feeling a lack of achievement or progression because too much is available too easily.

    Do we know for a fact that you definitely have to win a championship in order to progress to the next tier? I didn't get that from the video, but I may have missed it or simply misunderstood. If this is the case, and winning is the only way to move up (as opposed to merely doing well, e.g. placing 3rd or 5th or whatever and being offered less lucrative contracts with perhaps less competitive teams or something along those lines), I feel like this too is a misstep.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkraft300 View Post
    My guess is it's for the "achievements" and "trophies" culture of today's gaming.
    Well, I think if achievements/trophies are really that important to a player, that if they suddenly were blindsided with inclement weather and found themselves having a rough go with it, they'd likely just drop the AI difficulty to a lower level so they can get what they're after.

    Tying everyone's hands by forcing scripted weather on all of us to make it "fair" for those who are more concerned with stats and trophies rather than realism and the excitement of the unknown seems, well...let's just say it's sure as hell not the choice I would've made.
    Last edited by Trippul G; 09-09-2017 at 02:31.
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  7. #17
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    If they are worried about player progression issues, have it as a option before starting a new career. Scripted or Realistic (depending on the date/ season)!
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trippul G View Post
    Do we know for a fact that you definitely have to win a championship in order to progress to the next tier? I didn't get that from the video, but I may have missed it or simply misunderstood. If this is the case, and winning is the only way to move up (as opposed to merely doing well, e.g. placing 3rd or 5th or whatever and being offered less lucrative contracts with perhaps less competitive teams or something along those lines), I feel like this too is a misstep.
    It wasn't confirmed in that video. I have seen other people play the preview builds and this how I've seen them move up a tier - when they win the championship. There's also a line he says "when people beat a tier they move up" or something like that. "beat" a tier? That can only mean winning the championship - it doesn't make any sense otherwise.

    In regards to any car any time design, yeah that's awesome, you can pick any car for multiplayer or single races. Race anywhere, any time. That's awesome. But for career where it simulates real life motorsport? You have to earn being able to move up. They already know this because you have get specific criteria to move up in tiers, except that the criteria logic makes no sense. F12011 did a better job. It make sense when you first start the career to let you start anywhere. But once you've started... if someone starts in formula rookie, it's obvious they want to earn their way up.

    Being able to lower the AI so they can "win" makes no sense.

    So many contradictions.
    Last edited by Javaniceday; 09-09-2017 at 03:20.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    It wasn't confirmed in that video. I have seen other people play the preview builds and this how I've seen them move up a tier - when they win the championship. There's also a line he says "when people beat a tier they move up" or something like that. "beat" a tier? That can only mean winning the championship - it doesn't make any sense otherwise.
    I've watched a number of "career walkthroughs" on YouTube as well, but honestly I'm not sure that I've ever seen anyone NOT come in first at the end of the championship in question, so maybe it IS possible to progress without taking first place.

    Even if they use the term "beat" the tier to move up, the word "beat" to me means doing what is required to achieve success. It may not necessarily mean that winning (finishing in 1st place) is the only way. Maybe. I hope. Can anyone confirm this one way or the other please?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    who knows? Did they?

    And were they overruled by the directors who simply had different artistic goals? I've never read anyone who thought having scripted weather was a good idea.

    And of course, I'll be one of many pitching ideas in WMD, but at least I'll have more of a chance to be an influence than on this forum 4 to 5 months before the game is released.

    Hope springs eternal...
    I did, I did pitched for an alternative randomised and customised career that is similar to Dirt Rally had. You pick the number of tracks you want to race on and what car you want to drive for that season, the game can either randomise one for you or you pick what you like.
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