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Thread: On the topic of AI

  1. #21
    Kart Driver Stonecutter's Avatar
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    Has anybody else had issues with AI in multiclass races?

    It seems like they don't realize that you are in a considerably faster/slower car and race you like you are in the same class.

    I have only done 2 multiclass races (TCR/TC1 at Watkins Glen and LMP1/LMP2/GT3/GT4 at Imola) and both times have had the AI in other classes try divebombing, block me or just plain rear end me.

    I have also had the AI speed issues, hopefully that gets patched sooner rather than later as it would put a damper on career mode having to constantly try practice races just to get the AI settings right for 1 career race.

  2. #22
    Kart Driver
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    Quote Originally Posted by BYF View Post
    Getting AI pace consistent across all tracks for every car at every skill level is going to take an age. Maybe be best to focus on the career events first.

    Need a very quick driver to do all events and log time difference per track, so each event can have AI tweaked to give consistency across one skill level e.g 100. Obviously you would expect a little variance per track for different AI drivers, as in real life, but 2 seconds a lap faster on one event/track to 2 seconds slower at the next track ruins things, and makes running championships with AI pointless.

    Also ideally you want some quicker AI drivers to be strong across all rounds with the odd bad race so there is a championshio challenge, not a driver that comes 1st, 16th, 10th, 2nd, 11th etc. In most Motorsport series, that don't have reverse grids that doesn't happen.
    You make very valid points.

    We need to define a base, ideally set by someone quick. But how and where should that data be logged? I think SMS needs to set up a database in which we can enter the data. It's the least they can do considering we end up testing their game.
    They could also use the leaderboard times. They could log the times done by people in the carreer events, use the top 100 or so, and define max, min and median times.

    Or they could use adaptive AI, like Raceroom does, which is pretty awesome by the way.

  3. #23
    Superkart Pilot Trippul G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcx View Post
    Or they could use adaptive AI, like Raceroom does, which is pretty awesome by the way.
    I was just thinking the same thing. I'm not a programmer, so I can only imagine the complexity of such a system. But wouldn't it be wonderful if, rather than having to manually futz around with moving a difficulty slider up 10 points for this race, or down 15 points for that race, the game could, through analyzing laptime data, determine an optimal difficulty setting for us and either recommend this to us, or change it itself on the fly? The more you race, the more it learns about your style/skill, and the more likely that the AI will be a better match for you.

    In an ideal world you could have this, but also a means to adjust things manually for those times when you just wanna blow through certain events to pick up your trophies/achievements. (Not that I would ever do that, of course.)
    The following 2 users likes this Post: gcx, Luke Townsend


  4. #24
    Kart Driver SreRacha's Avatar
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    So far I've found the AI to be a blast to drive against. Not trying to disregard the OPs issues just saying.

  5. #25
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    I have my own little AI problem to report so I'll do it just here.

    How epic this experience was, as equally unepic was the race itself that followed that qualifying.

    My AI settings were 20% difficulty, 25% aggression. I started eagerly at 50%/50% a few days ago but already had to drop it lower (not all AI fault, also my driving style and still finding my way with the controller and car settings).

    Anyway you start that race with warm tires. I started in 5th and the AI starts so slow I easily beat them all into the first corner. The entire first lap is just easy, the first AI stays at a respectable distance. The second lap he closes in and near the end of the second lap he passes me (I struggle a bit with that last turn of Snetteron, never been my thing).
    Anyway what is really cool about these conditions is that your tires start to loose temperature and they go from green to blue-ish, especially the rear. I like that setting. The qualifying conditions were epic as well starting with stone cold tires.
    So from lap 3 on the grip is diminishing each lap. That wolf pack of AI just come closer and closer and doesn't seem to get bothered by the grip reductions. One AI (albeit my own team mate - I want some team orders patched in! :P) already passed me.

    Somewhere between the end of lap 3 and laps 4, 5 or 6 the frustration really kicks in. My lap times get longer and longer, I simply CANNOT maintain that initial speed when my tires were all warm. That AI doesn't seem to be affected by it either. I did about 5-8 restarts because either all the AI catch up with me, or I try to stay ahead of them but loose grip in a corner and spin off the track.

    Again, I absolutely love the setting of these conditions! But I feel the AI's lap times are not affected by it, or at least not to the point I am.

    Not sure what to do now to be honest. I don't want to humiliate myself by doing singleplayer with 10% AI difficulty or lower. I mean I should be able to take on 30% with ease. I did a quick race at Texas road course with the default AI difficulty (60% I think?) in the Toyota GT-86 and I won it with ease. Granted that's a slower class but it's not that GT5 is superfast either.

    I think I'll just focus a bit on time trials and community events for now. I hope AI difficulty problems will be looked at with high priority.
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  6. #26
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusN View Post
    Yeah, with the Ginetta career it's balanced from me being dead last to being ahead with ease(rain). All on the same setting. And they can also be a lot slower in the race than in Q(without skip to end mind you) But still I love how these guys race now. They really feel alive and willing to fight, while keeping very fair. IMHO more fun than online!
    I did the Ginetta Junior career as well and I absolutely agree with both! Yes AI behavior is great! But yes they are so inconsistent in difficulty it's just not fun trying when you want to do a challenging career mode. Indeed sometimes they are hard to beat in qualifying (without skipping to end!) but then during the main race they seem to be far weaker.

    I do understand with livetrack 3.0 the complexity of this game has grown exponentially so problems like this might occur. I just hope they get fixed soon.

    I already wasted so much time this weekend with restarts it's not even funny anymore. Will put career on the side for a while but this was the main feature of the game I was looking forward to.

    Anyway I'm also glad other people experience similar AI difficulty issues, already thought this was all me struggling with the new game (would be weird since it handles so much better ;p)
    enjoying the best of both worlds in my living room - XBox One X SE (+ Elite controller) & PS4 Pro (+ GT:Sport DS4)
    Samsung UE65JS8500L 65" 3D 4K HDR SUHD LED TV ~ Denon AVR-X1300W + 4x Canton CD1090, Canton CD1050, Canton Sub600 ~ Apple TV 4K ~ comfy sofa
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusN View Post
    Yeah, with the Ginetta career it's balanced from me being dead last to being ahead with ease(rain). All on the same setting. And they can also be a lot slower in the race than in Q(without skip to end mind you) But still I love how these guys race now. They really feel alive and willing to fight, while keeping very fair. IMHO more fun than online!
    Im doing the Ginetta Jr Races now and if i start at the back at launch ill over take most of them at green light, the ai launch and acceleration needs adjusting.

    Also i feel that none of the AI have there own personal race styles, they seem to all race in a line, at times it feels like im playing gran turismo 3/4 again.
    The following 2 users likes this Post: Anke, Satchel_Charge


  8. #28
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    Agreed as well, I don't really see AI battling much with each other. But their behavior towards the player is really nice, they fight and go for gaps!
    enjoying the best of both worlds in my living room - XBox One X SE (+ Elite controller) & PS4 Pro (+ GT:Sport DS4)
    Samsung UE65JS8500L 65" 3D 4K HDR SUHD LED TV ~ Denon AVR-X1300W + 4x Canton CD1090, Canton CD1050, Canton Sub600 ~ Apple TV 4K ~ comfy sofa
    The following user likes this Post: APR193


  9. #29
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    Another issue I found today....

    Brands GP in the clios at 95% difficulty, 50% aggression

    Qualified 12th after giving it all I had in the lap

    I start the race and I'm up to 8th by druids. By the end of the lap I'm up to 4th. The AI seem so conservative in the braking zones but there is a marked difference in their pace from qually to the race itself.

    Worse still. Half the cars pitted for no reason after lap 1!

    I can see if you hit the sweet spot in difficulty and aggression that you can have a good race but there are still a number of issues to be fixed here SMS!
    The following user likes this Post: gcx


  10. #30
    Moderator Sankyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trippul G View Post
    I was just thinking the same thing. I'm not a programmer, so I can only imagine the complexity of such a system. But wouldn't it be wonderful if, rather than having to manually futz around with moving a difficulty slider up 10 points for this race, or down 15 points for that race, the game could, through analyzing laptime data, determine an optimal difficulty setting for us and either recommend this to us, or change it itself on the fly? The more you race, the more it learns about your style/skill, and the more likely that the AI will be a better match for you.
    The problem is of course: what is "optimal"? The setting where with a bit of concentration you win every race, i.e. everyone is an instant champion? Or that you end up mid-pack with your current best lap time? Or at the bottom, so you're forced to improve?
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