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Thread: G29 Wheel Settings - PS4

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    There is a bug in the FFB, I mentioned it, there is no FFB setting that can fix it.
    That is all that really needs to be said. I didn't buy Ikea software that needs me to finish programming it!
    Also, since FFB is not the only bug the game suffers from -- specific cars or tracks or tyres seem to have unique bugs -- so if you trying to tweak FFB you might also be fighting a handling bug.

    Quote Originally Posted by Civic View Post
    But beyond the bug we are talking about a G29 which is a very weak wheel with very poor FFB resolution. Any realistic representation of FFB on such a wheel will result in very weak feeling FFB. To counter the weak feeling you can use a positive response curve and the G29 has one built in to start with but a positive response curve is counter intuitive in regards to the resolution issues of the wheel. So a compromise must be made.
    There is nothing wrong with the strength of the G29! It feels fine in every other game, right out of the box! My Driving Force GT also worked fine and any game (except it doesn't work on PS4). Maybe my ancient Wingman Formula Force GT was a crap though.


    Edit: I wish were debating merits of different car setups rather than struggling to make the game playable.
    Last edited by SnowLeopard; 27-09-2017 at 16:29.
    The following user likes this Post: Shogun613


  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowLeopard View Post
    That is all that really needs to be said. I didn't buy Ikea software that needs me to finish programming it!
    Also, since FFB is not the only bug the game suffers from -- specific cars or tracks or tyres seem to have unique bugs -- so if you trying to tweak FFB you might also be fighting a handling bug.



    There is nothing wrong with the strength of the G29! It feels fine in every other game, right out of the box! My Driving Force GT also worked fine and any game (except it doesn't work on PS4). Maybe my ancient Wingman Formula Force GT was a crap though.


    Edit: I wish were debating merits of different car setups rather than struggling to make the game playable.
    I guess you don't play iRacing. Their FFB is similar but simpler than PC2. There is no one size fits all setting in iRacing for a G29 because the wheel is too weak for realistic FFB because of the reasons I talked about. In iRacing all FFB adjustment is done in session and iRacing have told people to adjust FFB per car and track combination, every time you change car or track it is suggested you change your FFB.

    The problem with people making comparisons is they don't understand what people are doing. I'm not going to name names but some of the most regarded FFB in certain sims are fake, people like the fake vibration of ripple strips and the fake feeling of the FFB going light when your wheels lock up. People like it when the developer fudges the FFB to just feel immersive no matter what car you select but then when every car feels kind of the same they complain and say arcade and make out that it is a physics issue using cut and paste physics.

    iRacing, PC2 and AC are all using a similar approach to FFB. iRacing is the simplest, rack physics based FFB only, no canned effects and the choice of linear response or a positive non linear response curve and then dampening, spring and gain adjustments.

    AC builds upon this approach but instead of simple rack based there is a non adjustable tyre blend. On top of that Ac offers 3 fake effects that the user can add to the FFB if they wish.

    PC2 is again similar to iRacing with the ability to determine the blend yourself and takes it a step further by offering far more tuning to the user but has simplifed the process with simple sliders that adjust multiple settings based on presets. For optimal FFB all of these sims have in session adjustment. iRacing can only be adjusted from the session. AC can only adjust gain in each session while PC2 once again wins with the ability to adjust everything without leaving the track simply by pausing.

    Out of these 3 with FFB based on realistic forces AC is the most consistent car to car out of the box. But the problem isn't that PCARS2 can't be like that, the problem is PCARS2 has better FFB (other than the bugs for now) and back to back you would not want to use AC's FFB. You can dial in a similar result (again the bug) but the result might be considered inferior on a G29 compared to a more iRacing approach that will require more tuning car to car.

    But if you don't want to believe that you still have your sim of choice.

    FWIW my various FFB settings that plenty of people seem to like were primarily tuned with a bugged car track combo. The tyre heat bug doesn't effect FFB. And doing time trials today in the Caterham and Mclaren felt amazing even with a bugged FFB. I'm pretty sure the bug isn't a bug, I'm pretty sure it is bad settings that we can't adjust. I'm sure a major part of it relates to a vertical load setting. It kind of helps to have experience in lots of sims and understand how to tune each and the foundation for the ideas behind this FFB.

    For me the biggest thing about this game is it is trying to be my dream sim. For a long time I've wanted the modern Simbin game a blend of the series with everything updated and improved. The ISI based FFB in those was terrible and ISI based FFB has come a long way since then. That's been party the foundation to the FFB here but this system we have here really is an effort to reconcile the best of every FFB system out there and again apart from the bugs it does a pretty good job.

    The problem is it's an advanced system that is best suited to an advanced wheel and not the very old and very inferior tech in the G29. I'm a long time Logitech user. I love the value and durability and their wheels are good enough but they really are close to bottom rung these days.

  3. #13
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    Im no expert on FFB but why on earth should you need to change the FFB per car and track? Shouldnt it be a setting thats ideally set by the dev and left alone with slight changes per wheel due to design limitations.

    If the feedback is being modelled at all decently then one size fits all approach should work.

    Not to mention the big massive elephant in the room: How does someone who's never driven a GT3 car at Imola know how the feedback should feel and how strong it should be etc... Thats an absolute pisstake if IRacing tell people to change their FFB per car and track for the best experience. Utter nonsense and if anyone needs to do that on any game then I suggest that sim isnt very good in the first place...

    People keep basing their realism level on other sims like AC and IRacing, that they have played but that doesnt make them an oracle on anything. It just means they've played those games and base their 'realism' on that and how comfortable that feels.

    Ive seen basement dwellers on youtube talk about this certain supercar has "too much grip goin in to this corner", yet this is coming from a douchebag who's never drove anything other than his mums Ford Fiesta to Asda and back. If he's even got a licence.

    Real driver feedback on what does and doesnt feel right should be the only answer and the only one that anyone takes notice of.
    Last edited by solocapers; 27-09-2017 at 17:23.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by solocapers View Post
    Im no expert on FFB but why on earth should you need to change the FFB per car and track? Shouldnt it be a setting thats ideally set by the dev and left alone with slight changes per wheel due to design limitations.

    If the feedback is being modelled at all decently then one size fits all approach should work.

    Not to mention the big massive elephant in the room: How does someone who's never driven a GT3 car at Imola know how the feedback should feel and how strong it should be etc... Thats an absolute pisstake if IRacing tell people to change their FFB per car and track for the best experience. Utter nonsense and if anyone needs to do that on any game then I suggest that sim isnt very good in the first place...

    People keep basing their realism level on other sims like AC and IRacing, that they have played but that doesnt make them an oracle on anything. It just means they've played those games and base their 'realism' on that and how comfortable that feels.

    Ive seen basement dwellers on youtube talk about this certain supercar has "too much grip goin in to this corner", yet this is coming from a douchebag who's never drove anything other than his mums Ford Fiesta to Asda and back. If he's even got a licence.

    Real driver feedback on what does and doesnt feel right should be the only answer and the only one that anyone takes notice of.
    The answer is simple in real life a car with strong power steering can have a maximum force of just a few Nm, a stronger streetcar might be 8Nm, a race car might be 20Nm while the strongest race cars can go over 30Nm.

    If FFB forces were simply calculated realistically and squeezed into a G29 so they all fit then only the 30Nm would feel strong and only at a high load oval. The 20Nm would probably feel good enough. the car with power steering would feel like there was no FFB at all.

    Getting back to the 30Nm when you drove it in tracks that are not ovals it would feel dead and go from feeling strong to feeling off, similar to how it feels in this game no natter what you do.

    Now if you automatically adjust the gain for each car so that every car uses the full range of the wheel only the lower force car will feel good on your wheel.

    You can get every car to feel good if you test and pre program every car and track combo moving the force curve up or down per car so the user doesn't need to but that's an insane amount of work for a developer.

    Or you can just give them something fake that kind of feels good.

    Here is a hint at which one you have been getting. Up until the invention of direct drive wheels many of the fastest guys in the world were still racing with non FFB wheels or Logitech wheels with the FFB turned off and just a spring effect applied because they all said the info they were feeling in their wheel was not accurate and no FFB is better than fake FFB.

    You need absolutely no experience to know if what I'm saying is accurate, you just need to be able to do basic math and read spec sheets or you can use an app to test your wheel.

    Your wheel has an advertised resolution but you can test how it responds to various forces and if you test a Logitech wheel you can see how it will represent multiple different inputs as the same force. You can then test how much force it takes to actually move your wheel and expressed as a percentage that is between 10%-20%. Which means at that force your wheel will feel as weak as it is capable of before feeling turned off. You can look up how much force various cars have at the steering wheel. Why don't you look up Indycars and V8SC. You can see how much force your G29 can produce. Then you can do calculations. Divide the force represented by the resolution to understand the steps. Work out how to fit 30Nm into 3Nm in a way that the 4Nm forces are even felt and don't fall under the minimum force required to move the wheel. Work out how to compress all those forces so that the wheel always feels good to the player and then when you have done your calculations and understand how much information must be sacrificed because the only time you will feel things in that car is when it varies wildly you must them make a decision how to create a FFB that feels good and provides info that helps the user drive the car.

    If there is something people keep doing when talking about sims it is talking without thinking. Math is easy, it is constant, and the math involved in understanding why the stuff most people say is BS in regards to sims is high school math. All you need is a basic understanding of frequency rates, resolution and the specs of your hardware, then look up the performance data of what is being modelled and when you calculate how far your cars wheels move between each physics calculation at speed you will understand why what some sims are feeding your wheel is made up. You might start to ask questions like how does that game calculate those bumps between the 2 calculation if they use such a low frequency to calculate physics? You might then ask if it is a matter of pot luck, the car in front didn't hit that bump but I did even though we both drove exactly the same line. You might realise ripple strips and dirt are impossible because the frequency isn't high enough. You might realise that your steering wheel that cost you hundreds of dollars is just a toy that has been fed fake info all this time.

    And then you might realise that all the fights over Simcade is the biggest load of rubbish and you have been playing car games the whole time. Sorry but the FFB that most people have argued was best all this time was always fake. Only one sim has refused to do fake and I've argued with them that their position is wrong.

  5. #15
    Kart Driver BionicBacon's Avatar
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    Thank you for your informative insights.
    PS ID: KingBukB
    PS4, T300 (Alcantara Edition), T3PA Pro, TH8A

  6. #16
    Kart Driver The Last V8's Avatar
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    so the definitive best set what is?

    post it please and i soon give a try


    many thanks

  7. #17
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    Recently started playing PC1 on ps4 and following this forum with interest to check when all bugs are solved. Playing with G29 so reading through this topic, I was wondering why you would want a realistic FFB in a game? My personal preference would always be to have FFB telling me what the car is doing, due to lack of forces you would experience in a real car. Thus having minimal FFB in game, because a real car doesn't have good wheel FFB is not a good approach for me ( &maybe others). For me FFB shouldn't be Sim like at all.

  8. #18
    LMP2 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prinsmp View Post
    For me FFB shouldn't be Sim like at all.
    Each to their own.
    I like minimal "realistic" ffb, because extra ffb info is confusing for my simple brain.

    Try my settings then just switch flavours to see the difference. Immersive is fun. Informative may work better with higher tone.
    G29 FFB RAW 100-40-5-10

  9. #19
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    Hello guys. This is my first post on the forums but I read them every day. Ordered G29 and waiting to come around new year and I am a little confused about what to expect when it arrives. I used GT Driving force back in ps2 days mostly on Gran Turismo. Played Project Cars 1 and now 2 on controller and decided to buy a wheel. Again after lot of reading bad experiences about Thrustmaster T300 it was luxury to order the wheel and pray not to die becouse Thrustmaster havent official dealer here in Macedonia so all postage payments will be on me if wheel die and for that I ordered G29. I am not pessimist about G29 becouse I am familliar with it becouse I read everything but don`t know what people expect. I am sure that the wheel is good, it`s not 1000$ wheel but even then we have to remember that even the best racing simulation it`s just a game and will never be 100% replica of real racing in detail, it`s impossible to replicate such amount of cars and tracks in terms of physics and weather. I will be happy with not clipping wheel, enough ffb to feel the curves, tyres, under and over steer. I hope that we can get that with this wheel. Maybe strictly in PC2 we have reduced ffb than PC1 but maybe SMS are aware of this issue. Will try setups posted above and maybe until then we can get something even better

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkraft300 View Post
    Each to their own.
    I like minimal "realistic" ffb, because extra ffb info is confusing for my simple brain.

    Try my settings then just switch flavours to see the difference. Immersive is fun. Informative may work better with higher tone.
    Thanks for the tips. I have yet to try PC2, because I am still enjoying PC1 and I am more or less waiting till most bugs are patched.

    However it looks like they are offering both worlds "realistic and informative" FFB so that's definitely a plus.

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