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Thread: Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.96

  1. #1
    Handling QA Lead Jussi Karjalainen's Avatar
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    Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.96

    EDIT 3.10.2017: Version 0.96 released, fixing rear 3rd spring functionality (copy error while converting from my internal sheet)
    EDIT 3.10.2017: Version 0.95 released, fixing heave motion ratio issues on various cars

    Here ye, here ye, the preliminary version of the suspension calculator for Project CARS 2 is upon us. I haven't had time to prepare anything for this release other than the calculator itself and some very basic instructions. In the near future I intend to make some videos explaining it a bit more, but those of you familiar with my work on the Project CARS suspension calculator of yore can get a start on it now, as well as those clever enough to figure it out by themselves. =)

    The download link be here:

    Project CARS 2 Suspension Calculator v0.96 for Excel and OpenOffice

    The archive has the calculator in two formats, .ods and .xlms. The ODS version works great in OpenOffice for me, but not in LibreOffice (macros don't work), and the Excel version works in Excel, as you'd expect.

    The calculator has changed appearance somewhat, but the functionality is more or less as before: Use the GREEN cells to adjust values, read the metrics from the top (suspension frequencies) and bottom (critical damping ratios), check the graphs for a general look of the situation.

    Step 1 is to select a car. Do this by selecting the cell with the name of the car and opening up the dropdown list (it's a bit behind the Reset button on OpenOffice since the layering in it is stupid).

    Step 2 you hit the Reset button (as long as your macros are enabled), this will reset all the values to "default" settings (should be the same as Stable, but can be a bit out of date).

    Step 3 adjust springs. See the frequencies to the right of the springs? That's how stiff the car is, no matter what the numbers on the springs are (this has to do with motion ratios and weight distribution). Two cars that have different weight but the same frequency are equally stiff. It's common for racing cars to have at least 10-30% stiffer front end for sharp front end response and good rear traction. Softer increases mechanical grip, harder makes things sharper and more stable aero wise. Non-aero race cars tend to be in the two, three Hz range, med aero cars (like GT3) tend to be in the 2.5-4.0 Hz range, for high aero cars sky is the limit (you want a solid aero platform on them and don't care about mechanical grip as much). Note that in Project CARS 2 some cars have third springs that act only for up and down motion (the opposite to swaybars that only act for roll), so you can differentiate between the two. For example you can make the car softer for cornering by using soft springs in the corners, but still able to support the aero load by adding 3rd springs to stiffen up that side.

    Step 4 adjust dampers. I'll add more to this, but for dead simplicity try to stay between the blue lines in the graph, towards the stiffer side. Below center is bump, above center is rebound. The further away from center you go the stiffer you are. For the "critical damping at 3 in/s" number, something like 70-90% critical for rebound and 40-70% critical for bump is a good range. I usually go with about 80% critical for rebound and 50% critical for bump.

    Rules of thumb:

    Stiffer = less grip, and vice versa, for springs, swaybars and dampers alike. There are exceptions but as long as you're within the guidelines this is generally true. A notable caveat is aero, you want to make sure that works as well as possible.

    For stability, make the front stiffer than the rear in all categories, but don't exaggerate.

    Try to avoid compensating one area with another. If your springs are much stiffer at the rear and you compensate by stiffening the dampers and swaybars at the front, you'll usually create a car that can react unpredictably in different situations. Some cars like road cars though do this by design in many cases, for other reasons. Rarely any need for that in racing.

    Don't go below average of 50% critical on the damping, the car will take a long time to settle down from bumps.

    Going beyond 100% critical on the damping means you're making the suspension slower at getting back to a neutral position. You might want this for a very stable aero platform on an open-wheeler, but it's generally not a great idea for mechanical grip.

    For circuit racing it's common to have the rebound damping significantly stiffer than the bump damping. Exceptions exist though, like some GT3 cars that want to work the tyres hard with stiff bump damping. For rally and uneven surfaces you usually want to go with stiff bump and soft rebound. Experiment with different bump/rebound biases to find your own style!

    Front wheel drive cars are just wacky and have insane setups, don't try to apply rear wheel drive logic to those!

    People have done and continue to do weird stuff in real life, so don't be surprised if a default setup looks odd in the calculator. I talk in generalities and approximations, sometimes a seemingly weird solution can work great.

    The Lotus 38 has a very asymmetric construction, not just asymmetric settings. That's why I split it into two halves.

  2. #2
    Moderator +WMD 1/2 Member Roger Prynne's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your hard work Jussi.
    Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX | CPU: AMD FX-8350 4.0 GHz (4.20 GHz Turbo) 8x Core | CPU Cooler: Cooler Master V8 | Memory: 16GB DDR3 (1600MHz)
    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 2GB GDDR5 - (Driver: 385.69)| Displays: 55" LG 4K UHD TV @ 60Hz - 24" Monitor 1920x1080 @ 60Hz | PSU: Sea Sonic X - 850 Watt
    Storage: SSD 250GB Samsung 850 EVO x2 - 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green Sata III x2 | Sound: X-FI Xtreme Gamer Fatality Pro + 400W Technics 7.1
    Wheel: G25 & Pedals with Nixim mod springs (NO PROFILER USED) | RIG: Playseat Challenge | OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A few helpful links for you


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  3. #3
    Handling QA Lead Jussi Karjalainen's Avatar
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    Sticky, maybe?
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  4. #4
    Moderator +WMD 1/2 Member Roger Prynne's Avatar
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    Done.
    Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-970A-DS3P AMD 970 ATX | CPU: AMD FX-8350 4.0 GHz (4.20 GHz Turbo) 8x Core | CPU Cooler: Cooler Master V8 | Memory: 16GB DDR3 (1600MHz)
    Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 2GB GDDR5 - (Driver: 385.69)| Displays: 55" LG 4K UHD TV @ 60Hz - 24" Monitor 1920x1080 @ 60Hz | PSU: Sea Sonic X - 850 Watt
    Storage: SSD 250GB Samsung 850 EVO x2 - 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green Sata III x2 | Sound: X-FI Xtreme Gamer Fatality Pro + 400W Technics 7.1
    Wheel: G25 & Pedals with Nixim mod springs (NO PROFILER USED) | RIG: Playseat Challenge | OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bit
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A few helpful links for you


    The following 4 users likes this Post: F1_Racer68, Jussi Karjalainen, Mad Al, vegaguy5555


  5. #5
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    This is so awesome!! Your calculator adds a tremendous extra value to the game and even more depth (if that's even possible!). I can't wait to get working with this tomorrow to fine tune my setups and truly explore and understand what's going on.

    Thank you so much. Your work is tremendously valuable and highly appreciated!
    "EA Sports! It's in the crates!" - DammitSinged
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  6. #6
    WMD Member Sessionerror's Avatar
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    Thank you so much Jussi! I wouldn't know how to do a proper setup without your amazing calculator
    a.k.a. "Chief fast sock" // German Project CARS Community: www.pcars-forum.de
    The following user likes this Post: F1_Racer68


  7. #7
    Moderator Aldo Zampatti's Avatar
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    Impressive. Thanks..!
    Systems tested with Project CARS 2:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Core i7 4790K - nVidia GTX 1080ti - 16GB RAM (Desktop)
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    Core i7 7700HQ - nVidia GTX 1050 - 16GB RAM (Laptop)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Core i7 6700HQ - nvidia GTX 980m - 8GB RAM (Laptop)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Core i5 4670K - 2x AMD 7970 - 16GB RAM (Desktop)
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    Core i7 4700HQ - nVidia 970M - 16GB RAM - (Laptop)
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  8. #8
    Kart Driver 4dri3l's Avatar
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    Thank you sir... hope the partnership with project cars setups site happen again...
    Ryzen 1600 + Rx580 + 16g ram + G27 for the win

  9. #9
    Kart Driver
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    Is there a way to download this for Mac please? Not sure if i'm being dim.

  10. #10
    Superkart Pilot
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    Perfect! Thanks!

    I just created my first setup with the calculator and it works great. If you are used to the Pcars-1-suspension-calculator you will get used to this 'new' calculator quite fast.

    There is only one question left for me. Which %-Values should i aim for at 10 in/s.?

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