Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 49 of 49

Thread: [Post #6] Can someone explain dampers...

  1. #41
    GT4 Pilot AbeWoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,581
    Platform
    PC
    ***ALL MY TIRE RELATED DISCUSSION ARE REFERRING TO MODERN GT/LMP TIRES***
    PC Rig: intel i7-6700k @ 1.21 gigawatts of electricity | Gigabyte Z170X G1 Gaming | EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Gaming | Fanatec CSL Elite Base | CSL Elite Load-Cell Pedals | McLaren GT3 Rim
    Other endeavours: lacrosse, hockey, snowboarding, DCS F/A-18C

  2. #42
    Kart Driver BionicBacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Western Canada (UTC -6DST/-7)
    Posts
    40
    Platform
    PS4
    PS ID: KingBukB
    PS4, T300 (Alcantara Edition), T3PA Pro, TH8A

  3. #43
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    191
    Platform
    XBOX1
    I saw a lot of videos about dampers, read many topics, tried calculator. My problem - I don't feel the difference at all! Maybe there is a good car and track as example to feel? Cause I tried to change dampers in GT3, Ginetta, Touring and nothing for me.

  4. #44
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Leipzig
    Posts
    9,127
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakiboom View Post
    I saw a lot of videos about dampers, read many topics, tried calculator. My problem - I don't feel the difference at all! Maybe there is a good car and track as example to feel? Cause I tried to change dampers in GT3, Ginetta, Touring and nothing for me.
    Try the Audi R18 2016 (Fuji) @Catalunya with default loose setup first and abuse the kerbs.
    And then try the same with this setup:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	R18 Catalunya.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	155.3 KB 
ID:	260116

    If you still don't feel a difference I don't know what to say.

    Thanks to damper adjustments I could transform that car into a kerb eating monster and this setup isn't even really optimised yet.

    Edit: Set downforce to 7/8 or 7/9 and raise the rear ride height by ~10mm.
    Last edited by Bealdor; 18-09-2018 at 12:01.
    Main Rig: CPU I7 4790K@Stock | GPU Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB | RAM 16GB DDR3 1866Mhz | MB Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 3 | SSD Samsung 850 EVO 120GB | HDD Seagate SATA 1TB | O.S. Win 10 Pro 64bit | Wheel Logitech G27
    Second Rig: CPU Q6600@2,80GHz | GPU Nvidia GTX 460 1GB | RAM 4GB DDR2 800Mhz | MB ASUS P5Q SE2 | HDD WD SATA 320GB | O.S. Win 7 64bit
    STEAM ID: Bealdor

    The forum search is a powerful tool, if you know how to use it...

    Please check out our Project CARS 2 FAQ and Tips

    PCARS 1 Known Issues threads: PC / PS4 / XB1
    The following user likes this Post: VelvetTorpedo


  5. #45
    Superkart Pilot Zeratall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    291
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Lakiboom View Post
    I saw a lot of videos about dampers, read many topics, tried calculator. My problem - I don't feel the difference at all! Maybe there is a good car and track as example to feel? Cause I tried to change dampers in GT3, Ginetta, Touring and nothing for me.
    Lakiboom, what are you trying to "feel"? Are you just driving around to see the difference or are you looking for something specific I.e kurb handling, transient response, etc? When it comes to dampers there are really 2 regions and 2 components for each region. The two regions are:

    High speed, and Low Speed damping what damping setting your in depends on the velocity of the damper, and your transition force. (damper will remain in low speed, until the force of the damper exceeds the transition force, which then causes it to kick into high speed settings.

    and then the two components of the damper are:

    Bound (Compression), Rebound (Extension) Bump controls the unsprung mass, that is the weight that's not supported by the spring (wheel hub, tires, etc). Rebound controls the sprung mass, that is weight that is supported by the spring (chassis,driver,etc)

    From Bealdors example above you can see his bump damping is lower than his rebound damping, this will cause a suspension that will allow bump absorption (soft unsprung) but will have good chassis control (stiff sprung). This is what you call a rebound bias and is very common you just have to be careful with jacking down if your rebound bias is too high.

    OptimumG (IRL Race Engineering Service for hire) recommend the following for a good baseline rebound bias.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	reboundBias.jpg 
Views:	0 
Size:	62.7 KB 
ID:	260117

    Also dampers affect cornering at transient. Transient is the portion of the turn where the chassis is still not set, so essentially corner entry, and corner exit. In the graph below we can see the suspension components of the car and how they contribute to lateral stiffness. The beginning of the turn we can see a damping force (bump) comes into play, then damping cuts out (car is set at mid corner), and then when the car exits we then again have a damping force (rebound). Althought damping doesn't apply the highest force, it does respond the soonest. That is to say, its time constant is significantly less than springs and arbs, this is why if you have adverse transient behavior (corner entry, corner exit), messing with the dampers can be very beneficial.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pic.PNG 
Views:	79 
Size:	87.3 KB 
ID:	260118


    If you have any more questions please feel free to join us over at the RST discord, we have about 400 members dedicated specifically to the science behind car tuning.
    https://discord.gg/w2MeTey
    RacingSimTools.com : Owner
    PC2Tuner, Car Tuning Software - https://www.racingsimtools.com/product-page/pc2tuner
    Tuning Discord :https://discord.gg/w2MeTey

  6. #46
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Moscow
    Posts
    191
    Platform
    XBOX1
    Quote Originally Posted by Bealdor View Post
    Try the Audi R18 2016 (Fuji) @Catalunya with default loose setup first and abuse the kerbs.
    And then try the same with this setup:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	R18 Catalunya.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	155.3 KB 
ID:	260116

    If you still don't feel a difference I don't know what to say.

    Thanks to damper adjustments I could transform that car into a kerb eating monster and this setup isn't even really optimised yet.

    Edit: Set downforce to 7/8 or 7/9 and raise the rear ride height by ~10mm.
    Thanks. I'll try once more with racing wheel in evening, cause with quick test with gamepad I don't see the difference. Maybe it just a little bit smoother or I just try to find something after setup

    what are you trying to "feel"? Are you just driving around to see the difference or are you looking for something specific I.e kurb handling, transient response, etc?
    When I set rear aero to 0 I have an oversteer. I feel it and I see it. When I set castor to higher numbers - wheel becomes stiffer on high speed, lower numbers - softer and better handling at slow corners. Camber - I always check telemetry and I see temperatures. But with dumpers another story. As I said I tried to set it to min and max and I don't know. I don't feel the effect of this changes while driving. Is it better or worse

  7. #47
    LMP2 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, AU
    Posts
    8,039
    Platform
    PS4
    Damper adjustment is almost impossible to feel on game pad and difficult to discern on a wheel. The feel will depend on your ffb settings somewhat.
    The spring balance is again easy to feel on game pad and wheel because it directly affects the balance. On a smooth race track it's also hard to feel damping changes because the dampers aren't doing all that much work.

    Dampers act on the rate of spring or wheel movement. That's a very small fraction of time where you turn the wheel and the car leans and compresses the springs, then you straighten the wheel and the car straightens and the springs extend. It's only during that compression and extension period that slow damping (generally) is acting. That's not even including pitch and roll from brake/throttle. You can set springs soft and compare dampers stiff vs soft then take a chicane: you will feel the transition rate is different.
    Good damping will keep the car planted through transitions, kerbs and bumps but it's a small change.
    Small changes add up to that 0.01s gain.
    G29 FFB RAW 70-50-5-10

    What tire compound were you using?
    What was your tire pressure?
    What was the track and tire temperatures?

  8. #48
    Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2
    Platform
    PC
    This is an awful topic in general, suspension and damping in project cars. I don't mean anyone speaking here. BUT from the 1st Project Cars... suspension and damping tuning would give you Units to work with. N/mm or something like that. In this regard, the game gives you the weight of the vehicle in total minus the driver. What the game doesn't give are mass values in the form of car frame, car body, driver, etc and tire mass. These numbers are sort of important in the suspension and damping.

    I'll explain...

    Slow bump/rebound are for the car body
    Fast bump/rebound are for the tires

    IF you drive from inside the vehicle, and you notice your front end bouncing after hitting a bump on pavement and the pavement is smooth after that bump, but the car still bounces, then you should think about adjusting the Slow Rebound. Slow = Car. The same goes for the rear. Drive in 3rd person POV, if the same bounciness happens Slow Rebound for the rear. It's a smooth road after the bump, the car should not still be bouncing during the smooth pavement. Increase Slow Rebound.

    IF Slow Rebound is TOO STRONG. Depending on the strength of your dampers, it's possible you might think you have a great driving car UNTIL you're in a high speed bend in the road, you need to do some evasive maneuvering, you turn your wheel real fast, the car responds, BUT then you cant correct for your adjustment. Now the dampers are holding the springs compressed longer because the dampers are too strong. Now your in a J turn with no control no matter how you counter steer.

    Fast Bump/Rebound, Haptic feedback of the road in your wheels force feedback.

    Going back to the concepts of Mass with tires and vehicle body. Well.... F=M*V

    The game fuct everyone in this regard.

    EDIT: Watch a replay of one of your drives, watch your car from the side. You can see the car tires moving quite rapidly vertically but the car above the tires doesn't have the same fast vertical motion. Fast vs Slow respectively.
    Last edited by em_t_hed; 18-10-2018 at 17:01.

  9. #49
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    SW Florida
    Posts
    201
    Platform
    PC
    I have been using Koni sport shocks (aka "Koni Yellows") for years on various cars that I compete with. The yellows are simple rebound-adjustable shocks.

    With these shocks, the rebound adjustment is most noticeable when transfering between the front and back end of the car (as apposed to side to side transitions)

    The rears basically control how much weight is initially transfered to the front tires when braking. If my car has trouble turning-in on corner entry, I "soften" the rear shocks' rebound.

    The front shocks' rebound adjustment helps tune rear traction when powering out of a turn. If I feel like I have to wait forever for throttle out of turn or I'll kick the back end out, I soften the front shocks and the rear hooks up better on initial throttle.

    On the flip side, if the car seems to only go straight when I try to throttle out of a turn, I tighten the front rebound and the car is more willing to rotate out of a turn.

    For my specific use (Autocross) The adjustments are more cross-corner weight-transfer adjustments than simple front-rear weight transfer. (I almost never get to transition between brakes and throttle in a straight line)

    My only RL experience with fancier shocks that have more adjustments is limited to co-drives in other people's cars...and I seldom did more than communicate what the car felt like to me and let them make changes as they saw fit.
    Steam name: z1nonly
    Windows 10 / 3770k / GTX 1070 / 32gb DDR3 @1333 / Oculus Rift / GTA-F racing simulator / Fanatec CSL Elite-P1 / CS V3 pedals / CS Shifter SQ V 1.5

Similar Threads

  1. Can someone explain me this
    By havocc in forum Driver Network Community Events & Leaderboards
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 15-02-2016, 12:17
  2. Can some one explain to me this....
    By FasterThenYou in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 31-08-2015, 08:23
  3. No dampers
    By gp20 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 24-08-2015, 02:11
  4. Somebody please explain...
    By Bruusie in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 03-07-2015, 21:09

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •