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Thread: [Post #6] Can someone explain dampers...

  1. #31
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    I get your frustration but don't know what to say. If you want a true sim then this complexity comes along for the ride. The default setups help a lot along with the calculators. They can't do everything as you obviously know since it's all driver dependent. Other than some super Engineer AI it seems the choices are 1) dumb it down or 2) suck it up.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Ringley View Post
    The big new addition for PC2 in this area is the setting for transition force. This essentially controls the valve which sets when the damper moves from slow rates for bump/rebound to fast rates. What this does is give you better control over the damper tune for what you want out of the setup. (it also lets us get a much closer match to real damper adjustments for many cars) Showing some damper dyno plots from the Clio Cup below as it's a good example matched to real data where the compression damping does rate change at constant transition force while rebound damping changes both the rates and transition force by a large amount.

    Orange line shows increasing bump stiffness of the front damper. Note how the kink in the force line happens at the same vertical position for all settings. So we've gone up 5x in slow bump damping rate (something you would definitely feel in steering response!) but overall force from the damper at typical shaft velocity only goes up by 40-50%, meaning it won't be a huge difference for high speed bumps like kerb strikes and such.
    Say you have a car that handles pretty well overall but you want a bit sharper input from small steering inputs. This would be one way to approach this would be tuning for that situation. Conversely, say you like the initial steering feel but find the car moves too much after that input, the outside front compresses too much and then has to spring back. In this case, you might want to keep rates the same but increase transition force for a damper with the same basic properties while being stiffer overall.
    Attachment 242582

    The rebound damping, however, increases the slow rate by almost 9x while also stiffening the blow-off valve that controls bypass flow to the fast damping circuit. You can see that the slope of each segment of the yellow line increase, and the transition knee also rises vertically on the plot significantly from softest to stiffest settings. This side of the damper isn't just changing feel of one particular area but stiffening the whole damper by 150% or more.
    Attachment 242583

    Could you make an easier explanation? What u said looks very important, but it's overmind and i'm not really understanding. Could u do some examples, showing us some practice applications? Like what should happen if i increase the transition force at a gt3 car in a corner. Hope u see this.

  3. #33
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    I just HAVE to ask this question.........WHAT did you think you were getting, when you purchased this game? How could you not love it?

  4. #34
    Handling QA Lead Jussi Karjalainen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos Riffel View Post
    Could you make an easier explanation? What u said looks very important, but it's overmind and i'm not really understanding. Could u do some examples, showing us some practice applications? Like what should happen if i increase the transition force at a gt3 car in a corner. Hope u see this.
    This will depend on what the car is doing now (since most cars have the transition in a different spot). Basically increasing the transition force value will usually* increase the overall damping force, especially for cornering, braking, accelerating etc., since what it does is increase the effect of the slow setting, and the slow setting is usually stiffer.

    The best way to visualize this is probably to use my calculator, where you can see the effects of all the settings in graphical form. Links are in my signature.

  5. #35
    Superkart Pilot AEIDOLONE's Avatar
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    Sorry if this has been answered somewhere, been searching, but can someone explain WHAT is happening when the suspension bar+travel flashes red???

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I mean, even Yorkie in his Insider's Guide video wasn't 100% sure what's it about...
    The following 2 users likes this Post: Gav88888, Ryori San


  6. #36
    Superkart Pilot Albertsen's Avatar
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    Someone please stick this thread.
    Project Cars 2 - The Great Aquaplane Simulator

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AEIDOLONE View Post
    Sorry if this has been answered somewhere, been searching, but can someone explain WHAT is happening when the suspension bar+travel flashes red???

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	maxresdefault.jpg 
Views:	161 
Size:	10.4 KB 
ID:	249149

    I mean, even Yorkie in his Insider's Guide video wasn't 100% sure what's it about...
    When the suspension bar flashes red, it indicates your springs are reaching maximum compression.

  8. #38
    Handling QA Lead Jussi Karjalainen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaky View Post
    When the suspension bar flashes red, it indicates your springs are reaching maximum compression.
    Or at least that you're touching the bump stop. And touching the bump stop isn't necessarily a big deal. =)
    The following 2 users likes this Post: AEIDOLONE, leaky


  9. #39
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    I always wondered about the suspension when it flashes red, thanks. As for dampers, I leave them as standard...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Ringley View Post
    The big new addition for PC2 in this area is the setting for transition force. This essentially controls the valve which sets when the damper moves from slow rates for bump/rebound to fast rates. What this does is give you better control over the damper tune for what you want out of the setup. (it also lets us get a much closer match to real damper adjustments for many cars) Showing some damper dyno plots from the Clio Cup below as it's a good example matched to real data where the compression damping does rate change at constant transition force while rebound damping changes both the rates and transition force by a large amount.

    Orange line shows increasing bump stiffness of the front damper. Note how the kink in the force line happens at the same vertical position for all settings. So we've gone up 5x in slow bump damping rate (something you would definitely feel in steering response!) but overall force from the damper at typical shaft velocity only goes up by 40-50%, meaning it won't be a huge difference for high speed bumps like kerb strikes and such.
    Say you have a car that handles pretty well overall but you want a bit sharper input from small steering inputs. This would be one way to approach this would be tuning for that situation. Conversely, say you like the initial steering feel but find the car moves too much after that input, the outside front compresses too much and then has to spring back. In this case, you might want to keep rates the same but increase transition force for a damper with the same basic properties while being stiffer overall.
    Attachment 242582

    The rebound damping, however, increases the slow rate by almost 9x while also stiffening the blow-off valve that controls bypass flow to the fast damping circuit. You can see that the slope of each segment of the yellow line increase, and the transition knee also rises vertically on the plot significantly from softest to stiffest settings. This side of the damper isn't just changing feel of one particular area but stiffening the whole damper by 150% or more.
    Attachment 242583
    Congratulations for your rich post. There is some place where i can find the calculator? thanks

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