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Thread: [Post #6] Can someone explain dampers...

  1. #41
    GT4 Pilot AbeWoz's Avatar
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  3. #43
    Superkart Pilot
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    I saw a lot of videos about dampers, read many topics, tried calculator. My problem - I don't feel the difference at all! Maybe there is a good car and track as example to feel? Cause I tried to change dampers in GT3, Ginetta, Touring and nothing for me.

  4. #44
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakiboom View Post
    I saw a lot of videos about dampers, read many topics, tried calculator. My problem - I don't feel the difference at all! Maybe there is a good car and track as example to feel? Cause I tried to change dampers in GT3, Ginetta, Touring and nothing for me.
    Try the Audi R18 2016 (Fuji) @Catalunya with default loose setup first and abuse the kerbs.
    And then try the same with this setup:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    If you still don't feel a difference I don't know what to say.

    Thanks to damper adjustments I could transform that car into a kerb eating monster and this setup isn't even really optimised yet.

    Edit: Set downforce to 7/8 or 7/9 and raise the rear ride height by ~10mm.
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  5. #45
    Superkart Pilot Zeratall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakiboom View Post
    I saw a lot of videos about dampers, read many topics, tried calculator. My problem - I don't feel the difference at all! Maybe there is a good car and track as example to feel? Cause I tried to change dampers in GT3, Ginetta, Touring and nothing for me.
    Lakiboom, what are you trying to "feel"? Are you just driving around to see the difference or are you looking for something specific I.e kurb handling, transient response, etc? When it comes to dampers there are really 2 regions and 2 components for each region. The two regions are:

    High speed, and Low Speed damping what damping setting your in depends on the velocity of the damper, and your transition force. (damper will remain in low speed, until the force of the damper exceeds the transition force, which then causes it to kick into high speed settings.

    and then the two components of the damper are:

    Bound (Compression), Rebound (Extension) Bump controls the unsprung mass, that is the weight that's not supported by the spring (wheel hub, tires, etc). Rebound controls the sprung mass, that is weight that is supported by the spring (chassis,driver,etc)

    From Bealdors example above you can see his bump damping is lower than his rebound damping, this will cause a suspension that will allow bump absorption (soft unsprung) but will have good chassis control (stiff sprung). This is what you call a rebound bias and is very common you just have to be careful with jacking down if your rebound bias is too high.

    OptimumG (IRL Race Engineering Service for hire) recommend the following for a good baseline rebound bias.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Also dampers affect cornering at transient. Transient is the portion of the turn where the chassis is still not set, so essentially corner entry, and corner exit. In the graph below we can see the suspension components of the car and how they contribute to lateral stiffness. The beginning of the turn we can see a damping force (bump) comes into play, then damping cuts out (car is set at mid corner), and then when the car exits we then again have a damping force (rebound). Althought damping doesn't apply the highest force, it does respond the soonest. That is to say, its time constant is significantly less than springs and arbs, this is why if you have adverse transient behavior (corner entry, corner exit), messing with the dampers can be very beneficial.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #46
    Superkart Pilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bealdor View Post
    Try the Audi R18 2016 (Fuji) @Catalunya with default loose setup first and abuse the kerbs.
    And then try the same with this setup:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	R18 Catalunya.jpg 
Views:	2 
Size:	155.3 KB 
ID:	260116

    If you still don't feel a difference I don't know what to say.

    Thanks to damper adjustments I could transform that car into a kerb eating monster and this setup isn't even really optimised yet.

    Edit: Set downforce to 7/8 or 7/9 and raise the rear ride height by ~10mm.
    Thanks. I'll try once more with racing wheel in evening, cause with quick test with gamepad I don't see the difference. Maybe it just a little bit smoother or I just try to find something after setup

    what are you trying to "feel"? Are you just driving around to see the difference or are you looking for something specific I.e kurb handling, transient response, etc?
    When I set rear aero to 0 I have an oversteer. I feel it and I see it. When I set castor to higher numbers - wheel becomes stiffer on high speed, lower numbers - softer and better handling at slow corners. Camber - I always check telemetry and I see temperatures. But with dumpers another story. As I said I tried to set it to min and max and I don't know. I don't feel the effect of this changes while driving. Is it better or worse

  7. #47
    GTE Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Damper adjustment is almost impossible to feel on game pad and difficult to discern on a wheel. The feel will depend on your ffb settings somewhat.
    The spring balance is again easy to feel on game pad and wheel because it directly affects the balance. On a smooth race track it's also hard to feel damping changes because the dampers aren't doing all that much work.

    Dampers act on the rate of spring or wheel movement. That's a very small fraction of time where you turn the wheel and the car leans and compresses the springs, then you straighten the wheel and the car straightens and the springs extend. It's only during that compression and extension period that slow damping (generally) is acting. That's not even including pitch and roll from brake/throttle. You can set springs soft and compare dampers stiff vs soft then take a chicane: you will feel the transition rate is different.
    Good damping will keep the car planted through transitions, kerbs and bumps but it's a small change.
    Small changes add up to that 0.01s gain.
    G29 FFB RAW 70-50-5-10

    What tire compound were you using?
    What was your tire pressure?
    What was the track and tire temperatures?

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