Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 88

Thread: Competitive Racing License Infographic - Feedback requested

  1. #1
    GT5 Pilot
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,181
    Platform
    PS4

    Competitive Racing License Infographic - Feedback requested

    I created an infographic that explains the basic of the Competitive Racing License. I'm looking for feedback in the following areas:

    * Is there anything that is unclear?
    * Is there anything that is misstated?
    * Is there anything missing?



    Rating System FAQ

    What is the rating system?

    ProjectCARS 2 rates drivers in two main aspects: safety and skill. See the competitive racing license infographic above for an overview.

    How does the skill rating system work?

    We don't have specific implementation details, but we know the system is based on the Elo rating system. This same system is used in chess, baseball, and basketball. For example, FiveThirtyEight (a notable statistics based blog) applied Elo rating to basketball, starting back in 2015.

    How might an Elo rating system work in pCARS 2?

    Elo rating systems assign a rating to players based on their performance against other players in matches. The key thing to remember is that the result is a player's rating relative to other players, not a game score, and definitely not a traditional championship points system.

    Because this is an Elo rating system, we can state some basic things about the system:

    1) For a given round, there is a set maximum number of points that can be acquired.

    2) Placing better than players that have a higher rating will earn you more points.

    3) Placing better than players that have a lower rating will earn you fewer points.

    4) Placing worse than players that have a higher rating will cause you to lose fewer points.

    5) Placing worse than players that have a lower rating will cause you to lose more points.

    6) In a given round, your finishing position will be compared to all players in a lobby, which will result in a net impact to your rating.

    How is my rating affected, based on my finishing order

    Keeping in mind all six of the points above, this matrix reflects how your rating will be impacted by finishing better or worse than higher/lower rated competitors. Keep in mind that you are compared to all players in a lobby, so just because you beat a single high ranked player doesn't mean you get ++points.



    Does my finishing order impact my safety rating?

    Safety rating is separate from skill rating. You can finish last place in ever race and still have a good safety rating. Your safety rating is impacted by things like contact with other racers and going off-circuit.

    Can you show me what a typical Elo rating would look like for a race?

    Sure! Elo rating systems are pretty well established, but there's quite a bit of math involved. If you get bogged down, just keep going and try to follow the main steps involved.

    Example Rating Outcome

    Because Elo rating systems work by comparing individual players, your finishing position will be compared to all players in a lobby. This means that for any given race, there will be N-1 comparisons made, where N is the number of players in the lobby.

    For example, let's look at a hypothetical race finish for the following players:

    1st - John 900
    2nd - Zed (you) 1,200
    3rd - Jane 1,300

    This finishing order presents an interesting conundrum. Zed has finished better than a higher rated player, but worse than a lower rated player. How should Zed's rating move, up or down? Let's do the comparison.

    In this scenario, there are three players in the lobby, so there will be two comparisons (N-1 = 2).

    Elo Overview
    Before we do the math, let's briefly discuss how Elo rating systems work. In an Elo rating system, comparisons are performed between two players. The system "expects" the player with the higher rating to win. The difference in their ratings represents the probability that the higher rated player will win. Put another way, the higher the spread, the greater the expectation that the higher rated player will win.

    The outcome of an Elo "game" comparison is a new Elo rating for each player. When making this comparison, we must decide the absolutely maximum number of points that any player will be awarded for winning. This number is called the K-factor.

    On to the math!

    Reference: How to Calculate Elo-Rating

    K-Factor
    Caveat: we don't know this number for certain, but we think it's 12.

    K = 12 / 2 (divide by two because we want to spread out the points awarded over both comparisons).

    Caveat: we don't know for certain if the K-factor is divided up like this.

    Zed vs John
    We start by assigning our player's ratings to a Rating variable.

    Ra (Zed) = 1,200
    Rb (John) = 900

    Step 1: Transform the ratings for comparison (this makes the comparison math simpler).

    TRa = 10^(Ra/400) = 1,000
    TRb = 10^(Rb/400) = 177.8279410039

    Step 2: Calculated the Expected rating.

    ERa = TRa / (TRa + TRb) = 0.8490204428
    ERb = TRb / (TRa + TRb) = 0.1509795572

    Step 3: Calculate net change in Elo rating.

    John gets S=1 because he is the winner; Zed gets S=0
    SRa = 0
    SRb = 1

    (Ra + K (SRa - ERa)) - Ra = -5.0941226567
    (Rb + K (SRb - ERb)) - Rb = 5.0941226567

    Step 4: Review impact to Zed's rating.

    Zed loses -5.0941226567.

    Zed vs Jane

    Ra (Zed) = 1,200
    Rb (Jane) = 1,300

    Step 1: Transform the ratings for comparison (this makes the comparison math simpler).

    TRa = 10^(Ra/400) = 1,000
    TRb = 10^(Rb/400) = 1,778.2794100389

    Step 2: Calculated the Expected rating.

    ERa = TRa / (TRa + TRb) = 0.3599350002
    ERb = TRb / (TRa + TRb) = 0.6400649998

    Step 3: Calculate net change in Elo rating.

    Zed gets S=1 because he is the winner; Jane gets S=0
    SRa = 1
    SRb = 0

    (Ra + K (SRa - ERa)) - Ra = 3.8403899988
    (Rb + K (SRb - ERb)) - Rb = -3.8403899988

    Step 4: Review impact to Zed's rating.

    Zed gains 3.8403899988.

    Total rating impact

    If we sum up the impact to Zed's rating, we see that the result is a net loss of points: -1.2537326579.

    Caveats

    There are a couple of things we don't know for certain:

    1) What is the K-factor used? (K-factor is the theoretical maximum possible points to be a won/lost) We feel pretty confident this is 12.

    2) When computing the result for a single race how are multiple players compared? Specifically, is the K-factor treated as fractional, or is the total K value used for each comparison? Most Elo systems treat the K-factor as the maximum points for a "match", so I would assume this is a fractional value, otherwise winning in a large lobby could net you HUGE points... or cause a HUGE loss of points if you finish poorly.

    Elo Calculator

    You can use an online calculator called Turo.io to perform the Elo Math yourself. Just remember:

    - Perform the comparison once against all competitors.
    - Remember to set the player count.
    - Set the S variable accordingly based on finishing position (win/loss)

    ELO Calculator

    Updates

    2017-10-31 Update: Changed color of +/- symbols to match color of rating type.
    2017-11-13 Update: Added rating system details.
    2017-11-29 Update: Added calculator
    Last edited by bradleyland; 29-11-2017 at 20:37. Reason: Added calculator
    COMPETITIVE RACING LICENSE Infographic | FFB INFO | SAFE IS FAST
    PS4 | FANATEC CSL Elite | FANATEC ClubSport Pedals v3

  2. #2
    GT5 Pilot rich1e I's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    1,319
    Platform
    XBOX1
    Nice one. This would've helped understand the system before launch. There was some confusion, at least on my side.
    Last edited by rich1e I; 17-10-2017 at 17:16.

  3. #3
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    125
    Platform
    PC
    For clarification:
    Can you somehow drop back to U if you achieved F? or is that the bottom and is U only for unclassified?
    And if someone starts at U1500 and constantly crashes.. do they stay in U or do they get an F, to distinguish unclassified new players from wreckers? thanks
    Last edited by wadafaka; 17-10-2017 at 17:39.

  4. #4
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    5
    Platform
    PC
    This was great! Really helped me understand because I had no idea and found it extremely confusing to try to rank up and not knowing what was dragging me down in skill as I try to drive as clean as I can.
    Just to clarify then, skilled opponents = higher rated opponents? since losing to lower rated opponents is the next..? I would love some kind of indication as to the amount of "hit" you take on the various actions. Example - contact (high), - losing to higher rated opponent (low).
    Last edited by neotronis; 17-10-2017 at 17:41.

  5. #5
    GT4 Pilot AbeWoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,583
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by wadafaka View Post
    For clarification:
    Can you somehow drop back to U if you achieved F? or is that the bottom and is U only for unclassified?
    And if someone starts at U1500 and constantly crashes.. do they stay in U or do they get an F, to distinguish unclassified new players from wreckers? thanks
    Yes
    ***ALL MY TIRE RELATED DISCUSSION ARE REFERRING TO MODERN GT/LMP TIRES***
    PC Rig: intel i7-6700k @ 1.21 gigawatts of electricity | Gigabyte Z170X G1 Gaming | EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Gaming | Fanatec CSL Elite Base | CSL Elite Load-Cell Pedals | Formula F1 2018 Wheel
    Other endeavours: lacrosse, hockey, snowboarding, DCS F/A-18C

  6. #6
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    125
    Platform
    PC
    ok then I assume that wreckers will stay in U (unclassified).. bit weird imho I expected them to be classified as wreckers (F), not unclassified
    The following 2 users likes this Post: RookieRaceline, roseberrya


  7. #7
    WMD Member g33k hack3rs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    172
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by wadafaka View Post
    ok then I assume that wreckers will stay in U (unclassified).. bit weird imho I expected them to be classified as wreckers (F), not unclassified
    Maybe U with different skill and/or experience is supposed to indicate wreckers. Or we can have a W safety rating for those that don't even belong in F.
    Steam: DuskyDemon
    | Intel i7 7700K @ 4.20 GHz | 32GB DDR4 3200 | GeForce GTX 1080 Ti | Thrustmaster TX Ferrari GTE Wheel | Fanatec Clubsport V3 Pedals | Oculus Rift |

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    905
    Quote Originally Posted by g33k hack3rs View Post
    Maybe U with different skill and/or experience is supposed to indicate wreckers. Or we can have a W safety rating for those that don't even belong in F.
    I think the system works great. If I see a guy that's U980 in ranked I nope right out of there. But if he was B980 I'd go "hmmm" and observe the lobby. You can actually tell a good deal from the combination of skill and safety rating. This guy had to have done enough races to get his score down to 980, and if he didn't make it past U in all those races he probably isn't going to make that leap and all of a sudden have learned racecraft. The guy with the B shows that even when he's losing he's not a bad sport about it and stays clean and finishes races. You don't need to stamp a big W on their head because you can tell anyway. And then if they eventually want to turn their act around they can work their way out of at least their bad safety rating.

  9. #9
    GT5 Pilot
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,181
    Platform
    PS4
    Quote Originally Posted by neotronis View Post
    This was great! Really helped me understand because I had no idea and found it extremely confusing to try to rank up and not knowing what was dragging me down in skill as I try to drive as clean as I can.
    Just to clarify then, skilled opponents = higher rated opponents? since losing to lower rated opponents is the next..? I would love some kind of indication as to the amount of "hit" you take on the various actions. Example - contact (high), - losing to higher rated opponent (low).
    As far as I understand it currently, safety rating and skill rating are completely separate. For example, going off circuit won't impact your skill rating, and winning races won't improve your safety rating.

    However, as you can imagine, going off-circuit is likely to result in a lower position at the finish of the race, so the two are usually correlated.

    It will not be unusual to see low skill rating players with high safety ratings though. If someone races clean, but rarely finishes on the podium, they can have a high safety rating and low skill. For example, I race with a couple of guys who have a skill rating in the 1200 range, but have a safety rating of S.
    COMPETITIVE RACING LICENSE Infographic | FFB INFO | SAFE IS FAST
    PS4 | FANATEC CSL Elite | FANATEC ClubSport Pedals v3

  10. #10
    GT5 Pilot
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,181
    Platform
    PS4
    IMO, it is a little bit disappointing that U isn't its own unique classification for drivers without sufficient racing time to form a rating. As Krus Control points out, it's sometimes possible to distinguish from score, but it's also possible that someone stays close to the 1500 skill rating with a U safety rating due to a "win at any cost" mentality.

    Optimally, U should be a special, distinct class for new racers, but it appears that is not how it works right now.
    COMPETITIVE RACING LICENSE Infographic | FFB INFO | SAFE IS FAST
    PS4 | FANATEC CSL Elite | FANATEC ClubSport Pedals v3

Similar Threads

  1. Competitive Racing License is a joke
    By JimmyBeez in forum Project CARS 2 on Playstation 4
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-10-2017, 21:48
  2. Fast Clean Competitive Racing!!! XBOXONE
    By SIlEnT EsKiMO in forum XB1 - Multiplayer Event Planning
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 21-09-2015, 12:20
  3. Clean and Competitive Racing!!!
    By SIlEnT EsKiMO in forum XB1 - Multiplayer Event Planning
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 16-09-2015, 17:53
  4. 31.7.15 friendly competitive racing
    By odemode in forum XB1 - Multiplayer Event Planning
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 31-07-2015, 14:11
  5. GTLeague Clean & Competitive Online Racing
    By Tensa_Prototype in forum Project CARS on Playstation 4
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-06-2015, 18:48

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •