Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 37

Thread: AI Level per track?

  1. #21
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Leipzig
    Posts
    8,439
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    so you're setting it at 120% and hope to catch them one day?

    My idea is to eliminate the tedious and long process of fine tuning the AI to have a race like you want

    In carreer for example, one race I had the AI at 105% and won by a little margin
    the next race after that with the same Ai % I was last by a good 5 seconds...
    set a lower %
    load the race
    make some laps
    still not where I want to be
    quit the race
    adjust %
    re-load
    and so on....
    and so on....

    Like I said:
    1- it would be optional (so people like you could set the % exactly how they like)
    2- it would be only in practice/qual, and not in race, as to not have rubberbanding
    I'm reading this kind of posts quite often but I have yet to experience this myself.
    I've raced quite a lot career series already and not once have I seen such huge variance between different tracks in one championship.
    Yes, I've raced on unfamiliar tracks and was quite shocked that I was suddenly 4-5 seconds behind the AI although I've won the race before.
    But after ~2 hours of practice and good setup work my performance was good enough to be competitive again.
    Main Rig: CPU I7 4790K@Stock | GPU Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB | RAM 16GB DDR3 1866Mhz | MB Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 3 | SSD Samsung 850 EVO 120GB | HDD Seagate SATA 1TB | O.S. Win 10 Pro 64bit | Wheel Logitech G27
    Second Rig: CPU Q6600@2,80GHz | GPU Nvidia GTX 460 1GB | RAM 4GB DDR2 800Mhz | MB ASUS P5Q SE2 | HDD WD SATA 320GB | O.S. Win 7 64bit
    STEAM ID: Bealdor

    The forum search is a powerful tool, if you know how to use it...

    Please check out our Project CARS 2 FAQ and Tips

    PCARS 1 Known Issues threads: PC / PS4 / XB1

  2. #22
    GT3 Pilot Schnizz58's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Duchy of Grand Fenwick
    Posts
    4,111
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    so you're setting it at 120% and hope to catch them one day?
    No, I set it a little bit better than I am and when I can beat them, I set it a little higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    My idea is to eliminate the tedious and long process of fine tuning the AI to have a race like you want
    Yeah I get that but it really isn't that tedious. With my method I can converge to a number in a handful of races.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    In carreer for example, one race I had the AI at 105% and won by a little margin
    the next race after that with the same Ai % I was last by a good 5 seconds...
    Well that's a problem of consistency. So SMS need to get the AI to a fairly consistent level before we can do anything else, which Doug and team are working on.

    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    Like I said:
    1- it would be optional (so people like you could set the % exactly how they like)
    2- it would be only in practice/qual, and not in race, as to not have rubberbanding
    If it's optional I wouldn't be horribly opposed to it but if it doesn't apply to races then I don't quite see the point.
    "You need a good bra in the Karussell." -- Sabine Schmitz
    ASUS GL702VI-MH72 | Thrustmaster TX Wheel | Thrustmaster VG Ferrari 599XX EVO Wheel Alcantara Edition
    Thrustmaster T3PA Pro Pedals with Ricmotech Load Cell Mod | Wheelstand Pro v2

  3. #23
    WMD Member GenBrien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Québec, Canada
    Posts
    546
    Platform
    PS4 Pro
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnizz58 View Post

    If it's optional I wouldn't be horribly opposed to it but if it doesn't apply to races then I don't quite see the point.
    because, by the time you've done the practice + qual, then the AI would be set to the correct %


    I've raced quite a lot career series already and not once have I seen such huge variance between different tracks in one championship.
    mostly the differences are from dry to wet/ vice-versa
    XBL/PSN/others: genbrien
    CPU: i7 2600k@ 4.8Ghz GPU:GTX 980 Strix Mobo: Asus P8P67 deluxe RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb ddr2 9-9-9-24 @1600mhz SSD: Intel X25m 80gb
    Keyboard: Logitech G15 Monitor: Lg 24'' 1920*1080 Mouse: G700s PSU: Corsair TX750w Gaming Devices: Logitech G27, TrackIr5
    Case: Cooler Master 690

  4. #24
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    40
    Platform
    PC
    This is a never ending topic.

    I think that AI level per track is an almost lazy approach to the problem, but it's one that could work, for very cheap (implementing this should be easy). But that doesn't solve the issues with track conditions (wet, cold, hot).

    Having AI balanced across the board with global settings is the more courageous approach (it's what SMS is doing), as it requires tweaking the AI for all possible conditions, which must be thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of possibilities.
    We can see how this can fail unless the AIs are using the exact same physics as the players.
    I don't buy the argument of simplified physics for AI being the problem (although it must be a challenge).
    Teaching the AIs to drive like humans using real conditions seems like an incredible technical feat, I'm sure that AI research on the subject isn't that advanced yet (Doug can, and probably will, correct me).

    Having a system that tries to challenge the player based on scenarios and adapts in real time seems smart, but it poses many game design issues. How do you reward a player who wishes to win no matter what?

    What I would like to see is a big data approach. Store as much data (splines with velocity key frames...? Probably many other variables) as possible from real players (online races, single player races, leaderboard times), for all track/car/condition combinations and extrapolate a difficulty from that. It's the Google approach, it's working quite nicely for them. Sadly, they don't make racing sims.
    If there is no data, then your race will be weird. The nice thing is, the more you try, the better the AI will get.

    As for aggression, I think that it's pretty great with patch 4. Doug (and his team...?) delivered on that subjet. It's the best racing AI behaviour I've tried so far. It's just speed balancing that needs work (and I'm afraid it will never be good enough, but no other sim is). All the aggression problems I've encountered at 75 aggressivity were caused by the AI being too fast compared to me (damn you first corner on Daytona road course!!!).

    Lastly, I find the argument of AIs being rabbits at the dog track to be nonsense, as they can go quicker than is physically possible. The real rabbits are on the leaderboards.
    The following user likes this Post: Mahjik


  5. #25
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Leipzig
    Posts
    8,439
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    because, by the time you've done the practice + qual, then the AI would be set to the correct %



    mostly the differences are from dry to wet/ vice-versa
    That's basically the same IMO. How long are you typically practising a particular track in the rain compared to dry conditions?
    Main Rig: CPU I7 4790K@Stock | GPU Nvidia GTX 1060 6GB | RAM 16GB DDR3 1866Mhz | MB Gigabyte GA-Z97X Gaming 3 | SSD Samsung 850 EVO 120GB | HDD Seagate SATA 1TB | O.S. Win 10 Pro 64bit | Wheel Logitech G27
    Second Rig: CPU Q6600@2,80GHz | GPU Nvidia GTX 460 1GB | RAM 4GB DDR2 800Mhz | MB ASUS P5Q SE2 | HDD WD SATA 320GB | O.S. Win 7 64bit
    STEAM ID: Bealdor

    The forum search is a powerful tool, if you know how to use it...

    Please check out our Project CARS 2 FAQ and Tips

    PCARS 1 Known Issues threads: PC / PS4 / XB1

  6. #26
    WMD Member GenBrien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Québec, Canada
    Posts
    546
    Platform
    PS4 Pro
    Quote Originally Posted by Bealdor View Post
    That's basically the same IMO. How long are you typically practising a particular track in the rain compared to dry conditions?
    what I meant is I can race for example 4 different career races @70% dry and finish top 3, but on wet I need to set it to 90% to get the same result
    the problem perse is not me/the player but the differences in time from the AIs

    Mind you, I dont have patch4, so I dont really know if its ok now

    My point was that I can spend about 1 hour/ race to fine tune the strenght % to get them like I want, and its long
    XBL/PSN/others: genbrien
    CPU: i7 2600k@ 4.8Ghz GPU:GTX 980 Strix Mobo: Asus P8P67 deluxe RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb ddr2 9-9-9-24 @1600mhz SSD: Intel X25m 80gb
    Keyboard: Logitech G15 Monitor: Lg 24'' 1920*1080 Mouse: G700s PSU: Corsair TX750w Gaming Devices: Logitech G27, TrackIr5
    Case: Cooler Master 690

  7. #27
    GT3 Pilot Schnizz58's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Duchy of Grand Fenwick
    Posts
    4,111
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by GenBrien View Post
    because, by the time you've done the practice + qual, then the AI would be set to the correct %
    The way I do it, the AI would be set to the correct % before the practice.
    "You need a good bra in the Karussell." -- Sabine Schmitz
    ASUS GL702VI-MH72 | Thrustmaster TX Wheel | Thrustmaster VG Ferrari 599XX EVO Wheel Alcantara Edition
    Thrustmaster T3PA Pro Pedals with Ricmotech Load Cell Mod | Wheelstand Pro v2

  8. #28
    WMD Member GenBrien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Québec, Canada
    Posts
    546
    Platform
    PS4 Pro
    Quote Originally Posted by Schnizz58 View Post
    The way I do it, the AI would be set to the correct % before the practice.
    -GroupC @ Lemans /2hours / clear skies

    - GTE @Watkins Glenn/ 30min / light rain

    - FR @ sneterton 200 / 20min / overcast than rain

    how would you set the %, wihout doing any practice, and not be the 1st nor the last ,and having to fight for the whole duration of those races
    Just for fun

    I would like to have your trick because I would not know
    XBL/PSN/others: genbrien
    CPU: i7 2600k@ 4.8Ghz GPU:GTX 980 Strix Mobo: Asus P8P67 deluxe RAM: Mushkin 2x4gb ddr2 9-9-9-24 @1600mhz SSD: Intel X25m 80gb
    Keyboard: Logitech G15 Monitor: Lg 24'' 1920*1080 Mouse: G700s PSU: Corsair TX750w Gaming Devices: Logitech G27, TrackIr5
    Case: Cooler Master 690

  9. #29
    GT3 Pilot Schnizz58's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Duchy of Grand Fenwick
    Posts
    4,111
    Platform
    PC
    I already explained that.
    "You need a good bra in the Karussell." -- Sabine Schmitz
    ASUS GL702VI-MH72 | Thrustmaster TX Wheel | Thrustmaster VG Ferrari 599XX EVO Wheel Alcantara Edition
    Thrustmaster T3PA Pro Pedals with Ricmotech Load Cell Mod | Wheelstand Pro v2

  10. #30
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    286
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by gelfie View Post
    Be cool if you based AI lap speed on a players qualifying speed. Perhaps make the AI range +5% and -5% (or user adjustable %) from the players qualifying time on each track to sort of "Auto balance" the AI.

    If no qualification is done, just use the current AI strength setting.
    If they went for that though it would always put the player at a huge disadvantage if they sold out during qualifying. Either that or the player could take advantage and sand bag in qualifying for easy wins.

    Honestly adaptive AI always sounds great on paper, but look at RaceRooms adaptive AI. You literally have to train the AI for each and every car/track combo. It becomes a huge chore and if you don't do it properly the game will just shoot the AI difficulty to the max and you'll have zero chance and competing unless you're an alien.

    I'm not saying SMS have a perfect system, I actually think the skill gap from track to track is still too great even after patch 4, but I don't think an adaptive AI is the answer unless they find new ways to have the AI adjust to you.

    I've taken the approach that some tracks I'll dominate and some I won't. Hopefully future updates will make the AI behave more consistently from track to track in the future.

    Having said all that I think the AI is actually pretty good compared to some of my other favorite titles to play. I had some tight racing with them yesterday at COTA and Road America in the Formula C. Fingers crossed the AI continue with this upward trend.
    Ryzen 1700 @3.8ghz|16GBs RAM @2933mhz|EVGA SC2 Hybrid 1080ti|1TB Samsung 960 EVO|250GB Samsung SSD|480GB SanDisk SSD
    1TB WD HDD|750w 80+ gold EVGA G3 PSU|Dell 27" 1440p 144hz G-Sync monitor|Thrustmaster TX| 599XX Evo Alcantara|TP3A Pedals|TH8A Shifter|Fanatec Handbrake

Similar Threads

  1. grip level of ai
    By deadly in forum Technical Help & Support (PC)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-10-2017, 08:24
  2. CRL Level
    By Stewy32 in forum Multiplayer
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 27-09-2017, 17:52
  3. Hud level don t save
    By Fre.Mo in forum PS4 - Technical Help & Support
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 26-07-2015, 23:42
  4. AI level changes according to the race?
    By jhonatas in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 20-07-2015, 14:26
  5. AI Difficulty level ?
    By Ixoye56 in forum Project CARS on Xbox One
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-05-2015, 21:40

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •