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Thread: About the change on GT car slicks behaviour

  1. #1
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    About the change on GT car slicks behaviour

    Well I think it is pretty obvious at this point that the main change in the slicks behaviour, for both hards and softs lie in the fact that we have to turn the wheel less now as it the flex point would have been decreased by a good margin, but at the same time you can recover the car (on slicks, which doesn't feel natural) with more ease than even before once they are up to temp by the third lap more or less.

    Slicks for GT cars (GT3, GTE GT1 etc) now feel as broken and unnatural as FA/FC/FR3.5 slicks are, but with the addition of extra chances for correcting the always skidding car regardless how soft you are on the throttle. I don't think this is realistic by any means regardless it may be that fun correcting your spin on a GT car at higher speeds and angles, something that reminds me of GTSports where you can do this too. But the problem, the actual one, not only lies in these skidding tyres but in...

    ... the usual changes you made in the differential before, specially on the acceleration diff to deal with excessive wheel spinning on slicks (by opening the accel diff and increasing preload for instance) have been rendered useless now, even pointless, because these new slicks are all about skidding around and correcting the car regardless your diff setting.

    Fortunately, the amazing gorgeous pireli street tyre model seems to be working as always, and I can't feel these last changes on the GT slicks have affected them in any form, so street cars specially of course Road A continue to be the actual blast in this game.

    I guess it is time now to dive into the rallycross section of the game and the continue to set fast laps times on the Mercedes Ice track (both categories which still have amazing physics and thank God haven't been touched in this patch I can confirm) for the next three months..., until you again change the tyre physics.

    I'm seriously getting tyred of the changes in the handling. Could you please return to something like patch 2.0 GT slicks and leave them as that?, you can not pretend by doing a dramatic tyre change in every patch that the game is a sim or that it tries to mimic reality, because which of the three handling models for slick tyres that we have gone through since the game was released is the closest to real life?, I tell you that if you continue down this road then the answer will be none of them at all, because if you say that one thing is realistic and then proceed to change it then there's something wrong here, which is, exactly, what happened to assetto corsa, game that began featuring a very refined handling model and ended up being completely bollocks.

    Please stop with these dramatic changes on the tyres. Please devs choose one of the three we have already gone through, and let it stay..., but please not this last one lol.

    Just an honest opinion on these absolutely awful new slicks for GT cars. This can not be the real thing. No way.

  2. #2
    Superkart Pilot rich1e I's Avatar
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    I'm on console so I can't comment on the tyre model change but if you say road A continues to be the actual blast in this game I'm not too concerned about the changes. I'd be more concerned if there weren't any changes at all and development just stopped after patch 2.
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  3. #3
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    As a console user I've never dreaded an update as much as I am now.
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  4. #4
    Superkart Pilot APR193's Avatar
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    I'm also on console and am curious to exactly what the issue is, especially as you say the FA/FC/F3.5 tyres are broken. I don't use any of the modern single seaters but have just driven the FA/FC and F3.5 to try and find out what the GT tyres may become in the next patch and can't find a problem. The FC is awful in my opinion at least with default setups but the FA and 3.5 felt brilliant.

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    WMD Member cluck's Avatar
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    Regardless of whether or not the current tyres are 'correct' (I have no idea, let me get that out of the way first and foremost - as well as pointing out that I haven't driven any of the GT3 cars since Patch 5 came out), every racing sim changes the tyre model over time. Lessons are learned from whatever the existing model is and new theories are worked out on how to do it better. To think that a tyre model is "done" is to misunderstand how tyre modelling is crafted. At each point in time, the tyre modellers will feel that they have things 'nailed' but then find something they've missed, or can tweak, to make it more accurate. So, at any given point in time, they are correct when they say it's realistic .
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    Superkart Pilot MaXyM's Avatar
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    @richie, I'm looking forward for your opinion once you get this updated. IMO hardcore simracers (PC mostly) can live with iceracing physics. But what about casual/console player base?

    BTW OP is not expressing his objection to improvements. The point is, those changes are so drastic that they look like random change rather than improvement. By going the 'more accurate' path I understand tune up/make tiny changes which follow the same direction. You cannot create loose tire, then sticky one, then loose again saying that it's continuous improvement.

    Also add completely missing documentation of those changes and impact on current game modes (TT).

    I'm for improvements too. But completely changed tires behavior should take a place in the game successor, not in already released title.
    Last edited by MaXyM; 09-04-2018 at 12:31.
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  7. #7
    WMD Member cluck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    I'm looking forward for your opinion once you get this updated. IMO hardcore simracers (PC mostly) can live with iceracing physics. But what about casual players?

    BTW OP is not expressing his objection to improvements. The point is, those changes are so drastic that they look like random change rather than improvement. Also add completely missing documentation of those changes and impact on current game modes (TT).
    I'm for improvements too. But completely changed tires behavior should take a place in the game successor, not in already released title.
    Even if something is fundamentally wrong with the existing model? Of course, yes, without knowing what was changed (and/or why), we don't know but to flatly state that things shouldn't change at all is not the right path, IMHO.

    And in case my post was misinterpreted somehow, I'm not having a go at the OP, I'm simply pointing out that tyre modelling is never "done". It is always a work-in-progress thing, in every sim out there (at least, all those that I'm aware of, that are still being supported). Sometimes those changes reveal something amazing and work perfectly, sometimes they don't. I genuinely have no idea if this is the former or latter, I don't drive the GT3 cars enough to dare to comment. What I will say, though, is that the tyres won't have just been changed for a laugh and dumped on us, the public, there will have been a perfectly good reason behind any change.

    All of this is assuming, of course, that something didn't go wrong somewhere. That's always a possibility.
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  8. #8
    Superkart Pilot rich1e I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaXyM View Post
    @richie, I'm looking forward for your opinion once you get this updated. IMO hardcore simracers (PC mostly) can live with iceracing physics. But what about casual/console player base?

    BTW OP is not expressing his objection to improvements. The point is, those changes are so drastic that they look like random change rather than improvement. By going the 'more accurate' path I understand tune up/make tiny changes which follow the same direction. You cannot create loose tire, then sticky one, then loose again saying that it's continuous improvement.

    Also add completely missing documentation of those changes and impact on current game modes (TT).

    I'm for improvements too. But completely changed tires behavior should take a place in the game successor, not in already released title.
    Shouldn't be too long until Microsoft gives us green light for the update and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the changes affect the handling.
    Last edited by rich1e I; 09-04-2018 at 12:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1e I View Post
    Shouldn't be too long until Microsoft gives us green light for the update and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the changes impact the handling.
    if you are on a wheel and always using your fine setups having loose as the base, then you're not gonna believe it.

    I'll try to explain it quick. Wet tyres on wet tracks continue to be the blast they've always been, as long as of course you go on heavy downforce setting. Anyway, please note that before 5.0 you could also go fast on lowdownforce settings on GT cars too as long as you increased the preload and opened the deceleration diff by good margins. This needs ot be noted, because the differential settings continued to be the decisive factor in project cars 2, which was amaaaaaaazingggg stuff, seriously. Well, no longer. Diff settings mean nothing now, and i explain.

    On slick tyres, either hard or soft then handling is now about skidding around but with sublime precision, but the tyres slide so much that it renders your open differential settings with combined high preload copmpletele pointless, even useless , which before something basic in order to run the car steady enough on very low downforce settings. You did that to prevent wheel spinning when exiting corners. Well, it doesn't matter now lol. Set diff as you wish that the outcome shall be the same.

    I mean. Yes sms, it is very fun to recover the car on slicks at impossible angles, like in GTsport (think about this, come on); we may be also doing faster laps too under some particualr circumstances, but..., don't you think slicks, hard slicks precisely were perfect for example in patch 2?

  10. #10
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demand34 View Post
    if you are on a wheel and always using your fine setups having loose as the base, then you're not gonna believe it.

    I'll try to explain it quick. Wet tyres on wet tracks continue to be the blast they've always been, as long as of course you go on heavy downforce setting. Anyway, please note that before 5.0 you could also go fast on lowdownforce settings on GT cars too as long as you increased the preload and opened the deceleration diff by good margins. This needs ot be noted, because the differential settings continued to be the decisive factor in project cars 2, which was amaaaaaaazingggg stuff, seriously. Well, no longer. Diff settings mean nothing now, and i explain.

    On slick tyres, either hard or soft then handling is now about skidding around but with sublime precision, but the tyres slide so much that it renders your open differential settings with combined high preload copmpletele pointless, even useless , which before something basic in order to run the car steady enough on very low downforce settings. You did that to prevent wheel spinning when exiting corners. Well, it doesn't matter now lol. Set diff as you wish that the outcome shall be the same.

    I mean. Yes sms, it is very fun to recover the car on slicks at impossible angles, like in GTsport (think about this, come on); we may be also doing faster laps too under some particualr circumstances, but..., don't you think slicks, hard slicks precisely were perfect for example in patch 2?
    Did you delete your old setups and/or try a new one like Fight-test suggested here?
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