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Thread: Car physics differ between Thrustmaster TX and Logitech G920?

  1. #11
    GT5 Pilot Zaskarspants's Avatar
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    I think the different presentation of forces and feedback by the very different wheels is more likely to explain perceived differences.

    To say the physics is different is a great presumption. I suggest the differences between the wheels will be giving a different driving experience and that this most likely to be the effect observed. If physics were changed by wheel type then there would a very clear evidence of this emerging by now and I am sure we would have people noting that x wheel produces better laps than y wheel or controller. I have not seen any preferential lap times evidence to support this.

    The mechanisms of these wheels is very different. The G920 has two motors, one for high torque effects and one that adds higher frequency detail and gear drive. The t master has one motor and a belt drive along with ( i think) a proper sized rim. That may explain the differences experienced.

    Think of how different music can sound on different hi fi systems or a particular type of loudspeaker as an analogy.

    Trud- On videos - if you don't have an external drive you can record up to ten minutes at lower res.
    Cockpit view. 28 inch distance to 58 inch 4k HDR TV. Proper fov, 84. World movement 30, all other camera movement, 0. G920, shifter, Raw, 100, 50-80, 15-35, 0. Assists, all off. Currently play 90-120/100 AI. 10-20 lap quick races, some tt. Decent hifi, big speakers. Home made rig.
    You Tube Channel, recording my attempts to beat the AI at 120/100.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAW...nmkXnpurVpNxzQ

  2. #12
    Kart Driver Trudd's Avatar
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    Well as I mentioned as a response to Sankyo I really don't think the physics is actually different. I could have written that the car handling differs, but that would not convey what I feel properly either. I don't feel much difference when using the two wheels, but rather that the cars behaves differently when driving them in the same way, e.g. driving the cars up the curbs in the same manner, and with one wheel it spins out, and with the other I just drive along fine. So I thought car physics more correct described the problem, even if it's technically incorrect. Anyway enough excuses :-D

    Yes, maybe it's simply that I unbeknownst to myself drives differently with the two wheels/pedals that it would explain how the cars behaves. I certainly don't feel doing much differently but I hoped perhaps the videos would give some hints? Also I would expect the slight(?) upgrade from the G920 to the TX wheel would make it easier to handle the car though, not harder. Makes me vary of going the direct drive route. What if I become even worse? Realistic? Perhaps. Fun? Not so much. :-P

    Regarding the recording I can choose to record the past 2 minutes at 1080p or up to the last 5 minutes using 720p. No 480p option. However whenever I try to save the last 5 minutes nothing happens. If I then instead chooses the last 3 minutes it saves it just fine. No 10 minutes options, for me anyway.
    Thrustmaster TX 599XX Evo 30 [Firmware V50] + T3PA Pedals || FOV (+-15): 60 (correct ~40) [130cm to 42" screen] | World Movement (+-20): 80
    Patch 5.0 FFB -> Flavour: Raw | Gain (+-20): 40 | Volume (+-10): 50 | Tone (+-5): 50 | FX (+-10): 30 || Steering Sens (+-10): 65 | Brake Sens (+-5): 5 | Throttle Sens (+-5): 5 | Speed Sens (+-5): 5
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  3. #13
    GT5 Pilot Zaskarspants's Avatar
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    ^^^ the ten min option only appears ( i think) for 720p, the lowest, and after pressing xbox button, then press the button on left middle of wheel ( on g920) with two small squares on it. That should give you a ' ten mins from now' recording option.

    As for the differences between the two wheels the g920 is more direct and arguably able to produce more high frequency detail but it is also produces less torque on a 'toy' sized wheel, the tm is much more refined and less likely to clunk and whirr.

    Direct drive wheels are a whole different ball game and deductions about their performance are best not made by comparing two budget priced wheels.
    Cockpit view. 28 inch distance to 58 inch 4k HDR TV. Proper fov, 84. World movement 30, all other camera movement, 0. G920, shifter, Raw, 100, 50-80, 15-35, 0. Assists, all off. Currently play 90-120/100 AI. 10-20 lap quick races, some tt. Decent hifi, big speakers. Home made rig.
    You Tube Channel, recording my attempts to beat the AI at 120/100.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAW...nmkXnpurVpNxzQ

  4. #14
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    The physics definitely are not different between wheels. What is different is the way different wheels reproduce the forces. Fx being too high can cause weird issues. It is not only bump and rumble strip effects! If set way to high it can cause issues when the rear steps out along with other issues. After going from a t300 to a pc-racer to a 30nm osw dd the biggest issue for most of the consumer wheels is fitting everything into a very narrow window. The lower nm range the wheel has the worse the problem becomes. Even the wheel drivers itself can change the way a wheel reproduces effects. Anyone with a tm wheel remembers the huge deadzone we had until a driver update. Anyone that has played with the settings realizes you can make a car feel like it has no grip or mega grip simply with the ffb settings. The physics didn't change but what the wheel is telling you did. So its all about finding a balance for your particular wheel that doesn't cause too much or better yet hardly any saturation in corners while still keeping as many details as possible.
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    The following 3 users likes this Post: Hammerpgh, RobPhoboS, Zaskarspants


  5. #15
    Kart Driver Trudd's Avatar
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    Well if it is just a case of finding the correct ffb I can tell that I'm a out of luck. At least compared to using the Logitech wheel.

    As I mentioned I can use almost any ffb on that wheel and still drive around without any major issues in the handling. This means that I can set the ffb settings once and the drive all the cars decently. On the Thrustmaster wheel I have tried a lot of different settings (and I mean a lot). I have found some that feels great with some cars, and some that feel ok with quite a few cars. But even if it feels great I still end up with a car that I can, if not by much, drive faster than with the Logitech wheel, but also run of the track if I make a slight mistake, that I would not experience with the Logitech wheel/pedals.

    In short a small edge on optimal laps, and quite a large downside on others. I must admit that if I want to race more that time trial I would prefer the other way round, not just for my sake.

    But thanks for the feedback everyone.
    Thrustmaster TX 599XX Evo 30 [Firmware V50] + T3PA Pedals || FOV (+-15): 60 (correct ~40) [130cm to 42" screen] | World Movement (+-20): 80
    Patch 5.0 FFB -> Flavour: Raw | Gain (+-20): 40 | Volume (+-10): 50 | Tone (+-5): 50 | FX (+-10): 30 || Steering Sens (+-10): 65 | Brake Sens (+-5): 5 | Throttle Sens (+-5): 5 | Speed Sens (+-5): 5
    The following user likes this Post: Hammerpgh


  6. #16
    Superkart Pilot RobPhoboS's Avatar
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    I'll give it a try tonight as well, some more tweaking.
    I was at Brands Hatch last night, so with that fresh in my mind I'll be hitting up the Indy circuit a bunch tonight.

    Trudd - Add me on xbox live, maybe we can discuss some settings whilst testing ?
    Last edited by RobPhoboS; 15-05-2018 at 11:22.
    The following user likes this Post: blinkngone


  7. #17
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    I had the same problem and the i found a video on youtube by yorkie065 he does the insiders program im using he settings and it works for me
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  8. #18
    Moderator Sankyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpwr View Post
    The physics definitely are not different between wheels. What is different is the way different wheels reproduce the forces. Fx being too high can cause weird issues. It is not only bump and rumble strip effects! If set way to high it can cause issues when the rear steps out along with other issues. After going from a t300 to a pc-racer to a 30nm osw dd the biggest issue for most of the consumer wheels is fitting everything into a very narrow window. The lower nm range the wheel has the worse the problem becomes. Even the wheel drivers itself can change the way a wheel reproduces effects. Anyone with a tm wheel remembers the huge deadzone we had until a driver update. Anyone that has played with the settings realizes you can make a car feel like it has no grip or mega grip simply with the ffb settings. The physics didn't change but what the wheel is telling you did. So its all about finding a balance for your particular wheel that doesn't cause too much or better yet hardly any saturation in corners while still keeping as many details as possible.
    And to prove this, you could set FFB volume and FX to zero and test both wheels back-to-back.
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  9. #19
    Superkart Pilot RobPhoboS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann26 View Post
    I had the same problem and the i found a video on youtube by yorkie065 he does the insiders program im using he settings and it works for me
    It would probably be more helpful to post what settings you mean as well as the video. After all, there are tons of settings!

  10. #20
    Superkart Pilot snipeme77's Avatar
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    Honestly this doesn't surprise me, SMS has had to rework the FFB and Tire model half a dozen time on standard Xbox trying to get this to work, so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a slight code difference between wheels...

    I do recall Ian Bell talking about changing the Controller input Filtering at one point, mainly to help oval racers, I wonder if the thustmaster was negatively effected by this change? Isn't it more precise then the Logitech?

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