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Thread: Inconsistent hard tyre behaviour in full lobbies

  1. #1
    Superkart Pilot Ofnir4's Avatar
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    Inconsistent hard tyre behaviour in full lobbies

    I've now done quite a few leagues races in hot conditions (Willow Spring 24 air, 40 track, COTA, 22 air, 45 track temp, two races, Brands Hatch 20 air 32 track, two races, and Sonoma, 30 air, 50 track) and hard tyres simply do not behave the same way every time.

    You can have a normal experience, no lockup, no rear end instability.

    Or you can have a nightmare on your end, no turning ability, frequent lockups (in a GT3 might I add), no rear end stability (like running no wing at the rear) and a handling so bad, it feels like running with 24 AI, the tyre feels like jelly wobbling around under your car, sending you small amount of unwanted steering every time it gets so kind of load.

    And that is when the tyre are in the proper temperature window. At brands hatch it took me 4 laps from the manual formation lap, at the end of which tyres were around 75c, to get them back into any kind of operating window to have some turning ability. (hard on the front only there, I had learnt my lesson already)

    At sonoma from a standing start I couldn't even make it into turn one, the tyre deciding to go straight but then decided mid way through my understeering "off" to give me traction, in the gravel.

    At willow, from pole, barely saved a spin in turn one but that save caused the tyre to overreact and send me in the send on the outside of turn 3, 4 and 5 until I was collected by someone who probably had the same issue.

    We are at a point where scorching your softs is a better alternative to running hards if you know there is a remote chance the game will screw you over with its physics.

    How come running with players have an impact on the physics of the tyre ? My hardware doesn't run other people physics, we do our own and the host make sure they all talk to each other, so there should be absolutely no chance of that happening.

    Some guys have been saying that the grid issue (tyre model going nuts) is hardware limitation on the OG xbox, I believe it not to be entirely hardware and this is the reason : Players impact the tyre model the same way the AI does. Which makes no sense right ? Just like the tyre model shortcoming makes no sense...

    By the way there is no "way around this", the ready screen before the race doesn't change a thing, running lots of practice doesn't either because you can't encounter the issue AND you can't plan for it qualifying either even will 16 players because it doesn't happen (or hasn't so far).

    The only "fix" is not to run 16 spots on lobbies or to make sure the races you set are in cool enough conditions for the soft to be the only sensible tyre choice.

    Cheers, "The guys playing on the forgotten platform, experiencing all possible issues of a badly executed game."
    My body is 40% caustic humor, 40% sarcasm, 20% devoid of any emotion. My gamertag is the same as my username, I'm not that original.

    Delusional : holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument |Deluded : deceived by false beliefs.

  2. #2
    Kart Driver PCARSFFBSADNESS's Avatar
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    The Actrollvision leagues are run in default setups and hot conditions every race, almost always with a full lobby, I/we feel your pain. As you mention, large lobbies, regardless of whether it's AI or online players is a trend that causes strange handling issues that seem to be a physics problem rather than force feedback problem. It is pot luck as you say, sometimes a full lobby is fine, sometimes not.


    " You can have a normal experience, no lockup, no rear end instability.

    Or you can have a nightmare on your end, no turning ability, frequent lockups (in a GT3 might I add), no rear end stability (like running no wing at the rear) and a handling so bad, it feels like running with 24 AI, the tyre feels like jelly wobbling around under your car, sending you small amount of unwanted steering every time it gets so kind of load.

    And that is when the tyre are in the proper temperature window. At brands hatch it took me 4 laps from the manual formation lap, at the end of which tyres were around 75c, to get them back into any kind of operating window to have some turning ability. (hard on the front only there, I had learnt my lesson already)"
    - Firstly this sounds like you have steering assist on, I only say that first as since patch 5 I have been driving with this on by accident, and of course I could be wrong. Secondly this sounds like the same issue we have had for bloody ages, big lobby's break the tyre models for certain cars, my experience with this was the Cayman GT4, but I don't really get it online any more, not to say it's not fixed, I just haven't found a broken-car-when-in-a-full-lobby-sometimes in a while. It is also worth noting that we have a player in our league who describes the same issue where the handling seems fine at one corner then throws you right off on another, he also had steering assist on by error

    "At sonoma from a standing start I couldn't even make it into turn one, the tyre deciding to go straight but then decided mid way through my understeering "off" to give me traction, in the gravel.

    At willow, from pole, barely saved a spin in turn one but that save caused the tyre to overreact and send me in the send on the outside of turn 3, 4 and 5 until I was collected by someone who probably had the same issue."
    - Now this one I can really relate to, before patch 5 it was worse(?), now not so bad. My experience with this is that you can get a really good feel in quali, then for the first 3 or 4 laps of the race it feels like low FFB and low grip, I've put this down to a green track or something. But again though, sometimes it will feel like my feedback is dramatically lighter and wouldn't be because of a green track, I have a keypad assigned to the FFB volume to adjust mid race, but once you get this odd feeling it's never the same until a fresh race or fresh lobby. Its such an inconsistent bug.

    I've tried to do a cheklist/procedure to reduce your chance of having issues:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's all so vague though, if the issue was permanent or the same each time it would be easier to diagnose, but there is so much going on, with the corrupt setup glitch and different fuel every race glitch how the hell are you meant to know what is or isn't wrong.

    We are the worst console, I never thought I'd admit it bit the PS4 guys and PC guys only get half the problems we do. I'm getting a PC together ASAP but it's confusing and expensive. Crazy huh? The game is broken on xbox and I'm so angry I bought the same game again for a different platform. Hey, let's buy the DLC too! I heard the Porche pack has some good glitches to explore. Sweet deal , great fantastic, loving life, who needs to go outside anyway, much competition, very competative A;RG;IUDF;LBFVALIURFGVB;afelibarfglsarlalrfgbalkrfgblarfliaueallrgbsad;adurg;liesrg

    -LewisNE

  3. #3
    Superkart Pilot Ofnir4's Avatar
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    I don't run steering assist. But if I was, why on earth would an assist designed to help newer player be safer, make them a lot more dangerous ? The logic here is mind boggling don't you think ? We have steering assists that kill you, counter steering that wants to kill you, next we will have braking assists that pushes the throttle pedal.
    My body is 40% caustic humor, 40% sarcasm, 20% devoid of any emotion. My gamertag is the same as my username, I'm not that original.

    Delusional : holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument |Deluded : deceived by false beliefs.

  4. #4
    Superkart Pilot Ofnir4's Avatar
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    Part II of the tyre handling in lobbies chronicles :

    Long beach : Coudn't drive. These were softs, multiple people reported heat wasn't getting into their tyres, depending on the car it was either understeer or oversteer.
    I was driving the AMG, again the same feeling of not having any rear wing, which, funny enough did happen in the second race and DID NOT make the handling any worse, which is saying a lot when a fully damaged car handles the same way as the pristine car. Pitted for damage : Glitch went away.

    Race two : To prevent anyone from suffering that glitch again we tried two formation laps where we all pitted in the hope of fixing it and getting some real racing, it did not change anything, it also made it worse for some people as tyres started to behave like hards again (no heat going into the tyres), I was one of them. So unless you have existing damage, pitting does nothing to fix the glitch it seems.

    I was a bit angry to say the least, I lost two "easy" victories in my league because of these massive issues.

    But it's not over, Nurb combined : This one is the strangest yet. Lap one from pole, going fine, I have a 20 seconds lead. Lap two the physics take a nap and abandon me, tyres do what they did at long beach, I'm catching every steering input I make, I do a 8:54... 34 seconds off my race pace. My car is also quite dirty, figures...
    And then for lap 3 the physics gods grant me a one lap rest from my troubles : The physics are back ! The lap goes fine. I soon as I cross the line and brake for turn one, I can feel like it's my car again, I do a decent lap as we are laughing about how bad the lobbies are from lap 2 onward.

    I don't how long this can keep going until I snap, at some point some aspect of the game has to work for everyone in it. It's not going to be the career, not solo races, not TT evidently, so it has to be the multiplayer.
    For me at least this is now an issue big enough to warrant a hot fix, if you have any fix for that, deploy it as soon as you can.
    Last edited by Ofnir4; 12-05-2018 at 11:04. Reason: grammar
    My body is 40% caustic humor, 40% sarcasm, 20% devoid of any emotion. My gamertag is the same as my username, I'm not that original.

    Delusional : holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument |Deluded : deceived by false beliefs.
    The following user likes this Post: Asturbo


  5. #5
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    Is it possible to get confirmation that this issue is known AND reproducible to the dev team? As it's worrying the amount of responses to when this issue is brought up by others seem to make light of this as a tyre pressure issue!! Having raced against ofnir4 I can confirm that he knows how to drive a car, fast enough to clearly have an understanding of car dynamics, and everything he has said is 100% accurate. SO please please please is this issue properly known/ is it possible to be fixed, or is it too built into the game to warrant fixing?

  6. #6
    WMD Member Asturbo's Avatar
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    Very interesting observations.

    I've the same feeling of physics gone and after a few laps they are back (not rubbering effect, please). Looks something like wings effect or tire grips disappearing and you gets an undrivable car. I think that sometimes looks we drive with damage (or wings effect no applied), even we didn't see any anormal thing in our panel of damage of tire temps. And then randomly or after a pit stop everything gets normal again, like the wings effect or mecanical grip gets active. It's a major problem because it makes you distrust everything. I've the hunck that if we damage the car in practice i.e., the physics are wrong for the rest of the sessions (looks that you still carry damage), even if you change the session or repairs. And then randomly even during the race, the car looks repaired and drivable again.
    Last edited by Asturbo; 12-05-2018 at 11:03.
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  7. #7
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    I haven't thought about damage carrying over, definitely something i'll try and keep an eye on next time! I have a hunch that the preheating of the tyres may have an effect - due to this only appearing during the race sessions - and the speeds at which its an issue; I couldn't make it around turn 2 of brands hatch at below 30mph makes me think its more of a tyre physics issue in some way as downforce shouldn't have any part to play at those speeds. Maybe something with the tyre flex? As the tyres take on a very plastic, dare I say almost forza feel to them!

  8. #8
    Superkart Pilot Ofnir4's Avatar
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    I don't know if there is any link between the two, but since the patch rear wings looks to be held on to the car by duct tape and nothing more, even the slightest of touch will rip it straight off, like it was barely hanging on to the car before the impact. Weird thing, you may not have the grip level that coincide with any wing level, but you don't have the top speed of someone who has no rear wing.

    I fear you may be right about carrying damage over the the next session. The thing is, unless you really damage your car in the current session and have it repaired, it's probably going to stay. And even if it gets repaired, that is only one aspect of the issues you have, the tyres are still going back and forth, now you have a "stable" unstable car instead of "unstable" unstable car.

    We have a 24h of the Nurburgring today, I'll probably have report a lot of stuff again, it's a long track and judging by loading time the game will not handle it.
    Maybe someone at SMS will have a "eureka" moment reading this, that's the hope at least.
    My body is 40% caustic humor, 40% sarcasm, 20% devoid of any emotion. My gamertag is the same as my username, I'm not that original.

    Delusional : holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument |Deluded : deceived by false beliefs.
    The following user likes this Post: Asturbo


  9. #9
    Kart Driver PCARSFFBSADNESS's Avatar
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    Ok reading though all this i realise i havent had this specific glitch but know of it from other drivers. The "fine one corner, u driveable the next" bug. Its worth noting i have like over 200 hours and never had this.

  10. #10
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    Do you mind telling us your game options, or anything you think may be different in settings? Just to see if there are any differences that may have saved you haha. I assume your on an X?

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