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Thread: What am i doing wrong in the rain

  1. #11
    WMD Member Leper Messiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav88888 View Post
    I did an Imola race in the rain last night, old school Group 4 cars as part of a career race and the first few laps I made a 3 second lead and managed to hold it for a bit but slowly as each lap passed the AI closed in until 4 laps from the end they over took me and I struggled to get 4th.

    But, what I noticed is, at first there were no puddles and I was setting some good laps, but after a few laps the puddles got bigger and by the end they were massive. All well and good, apart from the AI wasn't fazed by them but even if I went through one slowly the back end stepped out a lot, but following the AI for a few laps they just drove through them like nothing and pulled away each time, I then closed up on the brakes and then went through a puddle and back end come out again...

    This is how it is with puddles and I think this is why the AI are quicker in the rain, as the first few laps I was consistent with my lap times, to the second, and holding a steady gap on the AI. I have noticed this same issue with puddles in other career races as well as ones I have setup.

    I think puddles are awesome and add to the experience, but I wish the AI had the same issues we do...
    I'm certain I've read that the Ai does lift a bit through puddles, I think originally it did lift more but that made it too slow. I'd imagine the issue is balancing it all out and it's erring on the side of not slowing the Ai too much. But I totally agree that the weather is adding a whole new level of complexity for Ai balancing issues and SMS hasn't got it right yet (unenviable task!). Also accelerated time can affect the puddles sizes unrealistically (I really hope SMS can sort that out), i.e. in a time acceleration that SAME amount of rain falls but in a shorter time period and that means bigger puddles than a non time accelerated race.

    In all honesty though until Processing power increases to the point the Ai can have exactly the same physics as the player we will get situations like this.

    Although a lot of these complaints would be moot if weather was selectable in career mode! I still don't understand the logic behind scripted weather in career.
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  2. #12
    Superkart Pilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keena View Post
    Indeed- its a much discussed phenomena. In the meantime try this if you get stuck- http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...nd-exploit-bug

    @ LeCAreJames I had a very quick go before I head out the door this morning. Theres lots to be unlocked in terms of wet weather pace in the car. I let the practice session run for just a few minutes on 100% and the AI posted an initial laptime of 1.55 in the wet. Is this representative?
    Nice one, that will come in handy.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leper Messiah View Post
    I'm certain I've read that the Ai does lift a bit through puddles, I think originally it did lift more but that made it too slow. I'd imagine the issue is balancing it all out and it's erring on the side of not slowing the Ai too much. But I totally agree that the weather is adding a whole new level of complexity for Ai balancing issues and SMS hasn't got it right yet (unenviable task!). Also accelerated time can affect the puddles sizes unrealistically (I really hope SMS can sort that out), i.e. in a time acceleration that SAME amount of rain falls but in a shorter time period and that means bigger puddles than a non time accelerated race.

    In all honesty though until Processing power increases to the point the Ai can have exactly the same physics as the player we will get situations like this.

    Although a lot of these complaints would be moot if weather was selectable in career mode! I still don't understand the logic behind scripted weather in career.
    I actually tested that last night as I was curious, it was a 17 lap race at full distance in career, but I changed it to 3 laps which is the minimum and it went through the full weather cycling and the puddles formed to huge sizes in 3 laps instead of 17... hey ho

  4. #14
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    Well Ive just hammered out a rough setup for the G55 Ginetta that doesn't try to kill you at every corner (as long as you stay out of 1st gear), and I got a high 1.55 with it without a huge amount of running. I think I did about 10 laps total. I qualified 7th at 100/100% difficulty- the trick is to get out on track bloody quick before the rain comes down too much. If you don't get a good lap in first time you can forget it- the track soaking is good for a second a lap so after 3 laps you'll be three seconds down on your best time- not ideal.
    I'll post the settings shortly once I figured out how to- screenshots seem to be too high definition for this. I might have to dig out the crappy iPhone...

    I'll do the race later. Its 15 laps on full so it'll be interesting that's for sure. Patience I think will be absolutely key!!

  5. #15
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    Do a screenshot, then open it in Paint on your PC and then save it. The file size will be reduced massively.
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  6. #16
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    Got a bit of fine tuning then ill do exactly that. Thanks Gav8888
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  7. #17
    Superkart Pilot joelsantos24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gav88888 View Post
    I did an Imola race in the rain last night, old school Group 4 cars as part of a career race and the first few laps I made a 3 second lead and managed to hold it for a bit but slowly as each lap passed the AI closed in until 4 laps from the end they over took me and I struggled to get 4th.

    But, what I noticed is, at first there were no puddles and I was setting some good laps, but after a few laps the puddles got bigger and by the end they were massive. All well and good, apart from the AI wasn't fazed by them but even if I went through one slowly the back end stepped out a lot, but following the AI for a few laps they just drove through them like nothing and pulled away each time, I then closed up on the brakes and then went through a puddle and back end come out again...

    This is how it is with puddles and I think this is why the AI are quicker in the rain, as the first few laps I was consistent with my lap times, to the second, and holding a steady gap on the AI. I have noticed this same issue with puddles in other career races as well as ones I have setup.

    I think puddles are awesome and add to the experience, but I wish the AI had the same issues we do...
    I think that pretty much sums up our issues with racing in the rain. It's much harder, no doubt, and we'll always be +15 seconds slower than on dry tarmac. On the other hand, the AI seems completely unaffected and they race as if it wasn't raining at all. Despite all the difficulties, racing in the rain would be much more competitive, if the AI would reflect the same issues we naturally have.

    Everything about the AI is unbalanced. I've had several races on Project CARS 1, where the forecast doesn't include rain. Throughout the race, the forecast changes and the AI already knows about it, naturally. The race engineer doesn't say a word about it to me, and it's not like it's very functional for us to keep pausing the game, every 10-20 seconds, in order to see if the forecast changed. Because the AI already know about it, they pit in anticipation and get their intermediate/wet tires on. I'm not a psychic, so I only pit after it starts raining and already got a few problems with loss of grip. The race is lost and I finish on the last few places of the table. It's not fun.

    About what sort of options or settings we should focus on, regarding wet conditions, everything that favours stability and traction is logically more important. When you approach a turn, particularly a very slow one, break before it and use the remaining acceleration to make it. Then, accelerate only when you're more or less in a straight line, coming out of the corner. It's important to accelerate sequentially and with care. Full throttle will lead to uncontrollable wheel spin and a possible crash. I personally use full Aerodynamic Downforce in the rain, but some people still prefer to sacrifice some of it for a bit more speed. Opening or closing the Brake Ducts and looking into your Differential settings, are also important factors. Closing the Brake Duct will increase downforce, but be careful not to overheat the brakes. In a very technical track and in the rain, you'll be using the brakes a lot. This means that you're likely to see some overheating. I think setting it around 20% might be a good compromise. Next, look at the Differential settings, particularly the Acceleration and Decelaration Locks. Higher settings here, will improve overall stability but will also increase understeer. Lowering the Limited Slip Pre-load setting, improves stability and manoeuvrability of the car. Increasing the Viscous Lock setting, also improves stability whilst sacrificing turning ability.

    As you see, it's all really a compromise and a very difficult balance to manage. You may increase downforce, but you'll always sacrifice speed. Additionally, you'll always be able to improve the stability of the car, but also increase it's understeer.
    Last edited by joelsantos24; 15-05-2018 at 10:35.
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  8. #18
    Superkart Pilot UkHardcore23's Avatar
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    I think it depends on the series and the car tbh as in the rain i've been way quicker than the AI who in turn were quicker than me in the dry.
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  9. #19
    Superkart Pilot joelsantos24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UkHardcore23 View Post
    I think it depends on the series and the car tbh as in the rain i've been way quicker than the AI who in turn were quicker than me in the dry.
    I agree with subjective nature of the series. It's much easier to control a GT3 car, even in the rain, than it is a Formula car or open wheel in general. Open wheel cars are designed, by nature, to be increasingly stable as speed also increases. In the rain, we're much slower, which means the cars will be inherently less stable.

    As for the rest, it doesn't make much sense, to be honest. Faster than the AI in the rain, and slower in dry conditions?
    Last edited by joelsantos24; 15-05-2018 at 12:34.

  10. #20
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    @LeCareJames
    I got first in practice with this by a few tenths at 100% difficulty. I like it because its quite stable, but has a relatively grippy front end.

    Theres a couple of things I need to point out-
    1) The front brake ducts are 100% open for a reason- to keep the tyres from overheating. The brakes run fine with the other balance factors on the car.
    2) Talking of brakes- the sensitivity of the actual pedal setup (not car setup) works for me at 60 as then I can squeeze my brake pedal just enough for it to be tactile on my foot and get enough reaction on the brake to balance it on turn in. I might play with the accelerator for the same reason for the slower speed corners on exit.. I'll keep you posted if I do.
    3) Theres some development work left- Ive rushed this to you in between real life I'll continue because I'm currently in Ginetta Juniors career so this will become applicable to me soon enough.
    4) I adjusted the aggression down from 100 to 60. This was an acceptable compromise to me given the tight nature of the track and the conditions.
    5) Note asymmetrical setup where appropriate.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    More to follow..

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