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Thread: Game Streaming (Cloud Gaming): is it a good thing?

  1. #11
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    BS like this is the reason I generally prefer older games.

    Games that require constant online connection even for offline play are already pretty bad, games that are streaming only would scare away a lot of people.

  2. #12
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    The Cloud is the future for gaming, whether we like it or not.

    I can still see PCs stay a niche though with VR rigs for racing games or just ultra powerful machines to pull the best graphics out of a game. But for mainstream... it will be gaming on a tablet or a phone, or straight to your TV.

    It all looks a bit surreal now but think about it, a prev. gen. game like GRID Autosport is already running on iPhones. In 5 years or so, phones will probably be as powerful as current gen consoles, if it will even take that long.

    I'm not sure how it will all work out though, I assume I need some sort of streaming box connected to my TV (or embedded in my TV). My controller will need to connect to something as well.

    I personally like it, if I can play all my games streaming at home on my TV and can then continue on my iPhone taking a dump at work... brilliant!
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  3. #13
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breyzipp View Post
    The Cloud is the future for gaming, whether we like it or not.

    I can still see PCs stay a niche though with VR rigs for racing games or just ultra powerful machines to pull the best graphics out of a game. But for mainstream... it will be gaming on a tablet or a phone, or straight to your TV.

    It all looks a bit surreal now but think about it, a prev. gen. game like GRID Autosport is already running on iPhones. In 5 years or so, phones will probably be as powerful as current gen consoles, if it will even take that long.

    I'm not sure how it will all work out though, I assume I need some sort of streaming box connected to my TV (or embedded in my TV). My controller will need to connect to something as well.

    I personally like it, if I can play all my games streaming at home on my TV and can then continue on my iPhone taking a dump at work... brilliant!

    I don't know how you can live with the lag of games in the cloud though. I currently have ~20ms of lag to Projectcarsgame.com and my television has ~22ms of lag, so that's ~42ms from the server to projected image. Now even if the reaction time of your wheel is near instant an average human reaction time is about 250ms, so add to that the extra ~20ms of sending data back again. Well, that's about 20+22+250+20= 312ms or 0.312 seconds (not 5.2 sec
    like I foolishly posted before... ahum! ).

    That's over half a second until the server showed you an image and you send your input/reply back so the server can work on that. That's excluding any latency caused because send data is encrypted and compressed, which also has to be dealt with. So I wouldn't even be surprised if it's even going to be closer to 1 full second of lag if not more.


    Than again there is the fact that you have to pay for TONS and TONS of subscriptions. Subscription for standard TV, subscription for TV streaming services, subscription for game streaming services and heck... maybe even subscriptions for DAB+ radio in the future?

    In my opinion it's really tearing up the whole market on all kinds of levels. Especially for gaming it's bad as it will also cause online servers to be less populated, simply because not everyone will sign up to all the services. Since for some games and genres it's already hard to get populated servers, it might be a nasty end for a lot of games.


    I really hope this doesn't take flight, as like Sankyo I won't be having any of it either. I personally hope racing games won't even be considered for these services, or better... I hope Slightly Mad Studios won't take Project CARS into that direction.
    Last edited by Christiaan van Beilen; 12-06-2018 at 00:08.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    I don't know how you can live with the lag of games in the cloud though. I currently have ~20ms of lag to Projectcarsgame.com and my television has ~22ms of lag, so that's ~42ms from the server to projected image. Now even if the reaction time of your wheel is near instant an average human reaction time is about 250ms, so add to that the extra ~20ms of sending data back again. Well, that's about 20+22+250+20= 312ms or 5.2 seconds.
    Hmm...don't know how you came up with this conversion at the end!

    But anyway, any lag between the input and the result on screen more than 1 tenth of a second is a big no no for racing games (or FPS), so I think those are completely out of the question, unless there are A LOT of distributed servers, so you can "play" in one very near to you with incredibly small lag. That might be a possibility, but certainly not for the whole world.

    But for other kind of games, this could be a good alternatively maybe, if a game does not have a quick action element, then such servers could manage huge worlds, in photorealistic quality, could be fantastic if it was made well. But for limited types of games only...

  5. #15
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpcdem View Post
    Hmm...don't know how you came up with this conversion at the end!

    But anyway, any lag between the input and the result on screen more than 1 tenth of a second is a big no no for racing games (or FPS), so I think those are completely out of the question, unless there are A LOT of distributed servers, so you can "play" in one very near to you with incredibly small lag. That might be a possibility, but certainly not for the whole world.

    But for other kind of games, this could be a good alternatively maybe, if a game does not have a quick action element, then such servers could manage huge worlds, in photorealistic quality, could be fantastic if it was made well. But for limited types of games only...
    Foolishly diving it by 60 instead of a 1000. I don't know why I did that. I will correct my post.
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  6. #16
    GT5 Pilot Silraed's Avatar
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    Unless there is some amazing physics development and they bring down latency dramatically then no this is not something for me. Not for anything serious like a shooter, fighter or racing game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    Than again there is the fact that you have to pay for TONS and TONS of subscriptions.
    This is what bugs me about the whole push for subscription services, the combined costs. Sure on it's own a $15 a month subscription seems like a great deal, but I'm already paying over $30 a month on subscription services, and that is with mooching Netflix and a family Spotify plan. On their own they are cheap, combined with even one or two other services things get very expensive very fast.

    Listening to Andrew Wilson parrot "the joy of subscription services" during their EA Play investor/shareholder presentation just felt patronising. A joy for you and your shareholders maybe.
    Actually the whole EA Play presentation felt a bit patronising to gamers.
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  7. #17
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    The only "cloud gaming" I'd be interested would be playing games inside my own autonomous flying car while traveling around. Maybe someday in the future.

  8. #18
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    I don't know how you can live with the lag of games in the cloud though. I currently have ~20ms of lag to Projectcarsgame.com and my television has ~22ms of lag, so that's ~42ms from the server to projected image.
    I think we are talking about 2 things here :

    * On one side you have the latency between you and the server including internet lag, TV lag and human reflex lag as you explained (assuming it is the type of game with a connection to a server). That is a lag that already exists today and that won't change at all if you move to streamed gaming.

    * On the other side you have the game file storage. Nowadays a game can have up to 100 GB or more of local client storage which is the 100% full game. A game streaming service would just mean that instead of storing this 100 GB locally on your PC or console, you will make a connection to your game in the cloud and it will only download the necessary files to your end. Say you want to start up Project CARS 3 and do a race with a McLaren P1 at Silverstone, it will first download the UI to you, while you are busy in the UI it will download the core game files to you, once you click the track and car you want, it will only download that. All other cars, tracks, weather conditions and all unneeded assets won't be downloaded. Heck if you use interior view for your McLaren the outside art is not even downloaded. When you are at the starting line at Silverstone the esses aren't downloaded either. But whatever you are playing and seeing on your screen, will be temporary stored on your system (smart-TV in this case). And enough content will be buffered ahead of you in case of internet connection hick ups. If whatever has been downloaded is not needed anymore it will be erased again.

    In the end it doesn't really matter if you are playing a game and game files are loaded into your system's memory, if that data is coming from a local 100% game download that's been on your harddisk there for ages, or if that data has been downloaded only a handful of seconds earlier. Streaming has nothing to do with latency, it just removes full local storage and replaces it with streaming.
    It's the same as listening to internet radio, an mp3 file is not downloaded completely and then starts playing, it is chopped up into multiple pieces and downloaded as needed. Your music device will buffer the song a bunch of seconds ahead, if you disconnect your router while listening to internet radio you will notice you still get a bit of music going after the disconnect and then afterwards the music stops. That extra bit of music is whatever length of song your device had buffered ahead for you. With streaming games it will be similar, no more full game downloads required, it will be chopped up into pieces and downloaded to your system as it is required.
    Last edited by breyzipp; 12-06-2018 at 18:18.
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  9. #19
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    For the sake of argument let's accept the lag can be resolved.

    I still don't trust these business suit sharks not to begin some anti-consumer monetization schemes if everything is in "their" servers. This is s slippery slope, I want no part if it. Contrary to EA and Activision opinions, Offline single player STILL matters, see recent Sony exclusives like God of War or Nintendo's Zelda. The large publishers have really wrecked the industry and burnt to ashes otherwise good studios (I favor crowd funding like Ian did with WMD1 or Fig). Thankfully CD Projekt Red and few other player-friendly studios still operate and can b depended upon. Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing and I would happily support their team
    Last edited by sas5320; 12-06-2018 at 19:01.

  10. #20
    Superkart Pilot APR193's Avatar
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    It will happen eventually, but given how much needs to change/be improved it won't be for a long time, so nothing to worry about yet. I'd expect to have another 2 generations of console at least, so another 15 years or so until people are talking about it seriously.

    I was reading yesterday, I think it was in IGNs article about Forza Horizon 4, how Ralph Fulton was reassuring that FH4 wasn't an online only game, saying its not popular and can cause too many problems for players. Need for Speed ditched online only after their 2015 game due to people not liking it. Developers, for now at least, know we don't want it.

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