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Thread: More comprehensive analysis of the replay system

  1. #1
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    More comprehensive analysis of the replay system

    Yesterday I made a post in reference to the replay system and perhaps could have done a better job with constructive criticism. So here it is.

    1. The arbitrary replay length. This is still something I haven't received any real definitive answers on. What determines the length of the replay? How can I lap a circuit 16 times, pull up a replay, and only be offered the last 18 seconds? Again, my guess is that this is determined on track section, however, it's a bad system specifically if it's going to be the only one. I'll use Dirt Rally as a better example of a more professional, refined replay system. The replay system developed for that title allows you to stop the race at any time, and replay any portion of the race you desire. There's a timeline you can seek through to find the precise location you want to replay without having to watch portions you're not interested in. Even that system could use some work, but is perhaps appropriate for what it is.

    2. Time limitation on the replay. 2 minutes can be improved. I know it. How do I know? Because the data is somewhere..... It's not like it's disappearing and magically reappearing after the race is finished.

    3. Sound issues. Now this is my wheelhouse, so when I tell you this an amateur take on mixing, I stand by that. When a mod messaged me and told me I was implying the replay system wasn't designed this way on purpose, I laughed because I was giving them the benefit of the doubt in assuming it wasn't designed this way on purpose. If it was, that's even worse. The sound profiles that are used for the track side replay don't even match the ones used for the cars. I'm not really one to shout credentials to make a point, however, as an audio engineer I can agree that there will be variation between the cockpit, chase, and track side audio. Though, this isn't what I'm referring to. The sounds in the replay are lacking dynamic depth. They're very generic and often times are the reason I avoid the system all together. I'll use Dirt Rally again as an example of a professional replay system, because the sound profiles used for the cars are the same as the profiles used for the replay. Yes there's slight variation track side, due to doppler stereo imaging, and other effects, but this is how a professional would mix/engineer the audio. It's not perfect, but it's light years ahead of the systems in Project Cars 2, and it's several years older. The transients I see in the replay system of Project Cars 2 are not typical of what you would normally expect, let alone realistic. (If you would like more information in regards to this, I could show you the transients)

    As far as the offense taken by my use of language with words like "amateur" and "professional", I apologize. My take on it was entirely different from the way it was perceived. I didn't expect a word like "amateur" to offend folks so easily. I didn't want to write this long, drawn out post the first time, because I thought it would be more appropriate to just say it needed a professional touch, and was awful. Because it is....... I am fully aware of the fact that time, or resources may have limited their ability to refine this system. That's fine. I'm just saying it needs a professional revision.
    Last edited by shadybrady; 14-06-2018 at 02:11.
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  2. #2
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadybrady View Post
    Yesterday I made a post in reference to the replay system and perhaps could have done a better job with constructive criticism. So here it is.

    1. The arbitrary replay length. This is still something I haven't received any real definitive answers on. What determines the length of the replay? How can I lap a circuit 16 times, pull up a replay, and only be offered the last 18 seconds? Again, my guess is that this is determined on track section, however, it's a bad system specifically if it's going to be the only one. I'll use Dirt Rally as a better example of a more professional, refined replay system. The replay system developed for that title allows you to stop the race at any time, and replay any portion of the race you desire. There's a timeline you can seek through to find the precise location you want to replay without having to watch portions you're not interested in. Even that system could use some work, but is perhaps appropriate for what it is.
    Well, those 18 second replays you mentioned are most likely a bug (and one that I haven't seen being reported before). The standard replay lengths are 2mins for instant replay and the whole race for the race replay after the race session is over.
    There's a further limitation on consoles that prohibits replay files to exceed the size of 256MB.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadybrady View Post
    2. Time limitation on the replay. 2 minutes can be improved. I know it. How do I know? Because the data is somewhere..... It's not like it's disappearing and magically reappearing after the race is finished.
    This comes down to memory management. Instant replays are cached differently than race replays and are limited to 2mins because of the high amount of data (especially Livetrack data) that is logged.

    Dirt Rally doesn't have to manage such amounts of data because it has no dynamic weather and track conditions to log and doesn't support such big grids.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadybrady View Post
    3. Sound issues. Now this is my wheelhouse, so when I tell you this an amateur take on mixing, I stand by that. When a mod messaged me and told me I was implying the replay system wasn't designed this way on purpose, I laughed because I was giving them the benefit of the doubt in assuming it wasn't designed this way on purpose. If it was, that's even worse. The sound profiles that are used for the track side replay don't even match the ones used for the cars. I'm not really one to shout credentials to make a point, however, as an audio engineer I can agree that there will be variation between the cockpit, chase, and track side audio. Though, this isn't what I'm referring to. The sounds in the replay are lacking dynamic depth. They're very generic and often times are the reason I avoid the system all together. I'll use Dirt Rally again as an example of a professional replay system, because the sound profiles used for the cars are the same as the profiles used for the replay. Yes there's slight variation track side, due to doppler stereo imaging, and other effects, but this is how a professional would mix/engineer the audio. It's not perfect, but it's light years ahead of the systems in Project Cars 2, and it's several years older. The transients I see in the replay system of Project Cars 2 are not typical of what you would normally expect, let alone realistic. (If you would like more information in regards to this, I could show you the transients)
    Another issue that's mainly caused by limited memory availability which Dirt Rally doesn't have to face.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bealdor View Post
    Well, those 18 second replays you mentioned are most likely a bug (and one that I haven't seen being reported before). The standard replay lengths are 2mins for instant replay and the whole race for the race replay after the race session is over.
    There's a further limitation on consoles that prohibits replay files to exceed the size of 256MB.



    This comes down to memory management. Instant replays are cached differently than race replays and are limited to 2mins because of the high amount of data (especially Livetrack data) that is logged.

    Dirt Rally doesn't have to manage such amounts of data because it has no dynamic weather and track conditions to log and doesn't support such big grids.



    Another issue that's mainly caused by limited memory availability which Dirt Rally doesn't have to face.
    How is this a matter of memory? You can compress audio significantly without it sounding as bad as some of these profiles. I get it, it probably takes a long time to doppler every single piece of audio and match it to every single camera angle track-side. However, this is their second title. Hopefully this gets addressed in PC3. You're telling me about what the problem is, and I'm not really arguing about that. I'm more or less stating that these problems are in desperate need of being addressed, because as it stands, the feature is pointless. I wouldn't want to record anything with the replay feature. If you're suggesting there is no remedy for this, I'm not sure why the replay is in the game. It's of significantly lower quality from the rest of the game. Btw, the rest of this game is perhaps the best example of a modern sim that I've seen. So it's not all bad. I just think the replay system is hideous.

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