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Thread: The "how an Italian Coupe turned into a French one" thread

  1. #721
    Moderator Konan's Avatar
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    I wish i had a car to change the lightbulb on...
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  2. #722
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpwr View Post
    The problem comes from designing the cars. I asked about this for heater cores because Delphi is close to us and someone that worked there came into the shop. The reason this crap happens is because the person that designed it only had to worry about the part fitting in the area given to them by whatever oem manufacturer and it doing whatever it needed to do. Changing it later is someone elses problem.
    That's an asocial way to designing something. Honestly, such companies should just go bankrupt.
    It is quite harsh to say this but I mean... come on! If you don't give anything about the quality of your work, go and start a business doing something that you do care about enough to deliver quality.
    Cars aren't throw away goods and parts fail on them, so it is (for me anyways) logical to make them practical to work on when it comes to repairs. This should be a manditory part to car design and not an option.
    The only thing such companies delivery is Chinese quality work that is in line of the quality of products you find at Chinese resellers. Cheap and easy throw away goods that make a quick buck.

    Now I have to be honest, and I do hope I won't hurt your feelings with this. I studied business a bit at the Ohio University and I know that the American way of doing business is more in line with the Chinese way than say the German way. That is high production speed with low costs to maximize profit is the way to go, compared to making an over-engineered product that costs but lasts and can be something be proud of.

    Which brings me to the much used word of duribility. Or misused word these days, as even a biological cheese is called durable nowadays... well, once it is gone it is gone. I can assure you that cheese doesn't last long in my household. So hardly durable. Lmao
    Anyway, I digress. Durability only comes from products that can be repaired, but most products these days are sadly not designed in that manner. Either they don't take it into account or like smartphones... they are just glued shut. They become throw away items.

    The issue is if we should accept such throw away fest as consumers though. Than again, humans are lazy by nature and it seems to get worse each younger generation. In which case it is a downwards spiral of these companies taking advantage of that and soon we can just as well throw away our electric cars every 3 to 5 years when the battery dies, just like how we do our phones. Or at least that is my fear.
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  3. #723
    WMD Member MaximusN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    That's an asocial way to designing something. Honestly, such companies should just go bankrupt.
    It is quite harsh to say this but I mean... come on! If you don't give anything about the quality of your work, go and start a business doing something that you do care about enough to deliver quality.
    Cars aren't throw away goods and parts fail on them, so it is (for me anyways) logical to make them practical to work on when it comes to repairs. This should be a manditory part to car design and not an option.
    The only thing such companies delivery is Chinese quality work that is in line of the quality of products you find at Chinese resellers. Cheap and easy throw away goods that make a quick buck.

    Now I have to be honest, and I do hope I won't hurt your feelings with this. I studied business a bit at the Ohio University and I know that the American way of doing business is more in line with the Chinese way than say the German way. That is high production speed with low costs to maximize profit is the way to go, compared to making an over-engineered product that costs but lasts and can be something be proud of.

    Which brings me to the much used word of duribility. Or misused word these days, as even a biological cheese is called durable nowadays... well, once it is gone it is gone. I can assure you that cheese doesn't last long in my household. So hardly durable. Lmao
    Anyway, I digress. Durability only comes from products that can be repaired, but most products these days are sadly not designed in that manner. Either they don't take it into account or like smartphones... they are just glued shut. They become throw away items.

    The issue is if we should accept such throw away fest as consumers though. Than again, humans are lazy by nature and it seems to get worse each younger generation. In which case it is a downwards spiral of these companies taking advantage of that and soon we can just as well throw away our electric cars every 3 to 5 years when the battery dies, just like how we do our phones. Or at least that is my fear.
    Can't like this post enough. Easily repairable with plenty supply of parts equals durable IMHO. Just ensuring that it can be recycled(after 2 years or less of use) alone just doesn't cut it and would be forbidden if it were up to me.
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  4. #724
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    That's an asocial way to designing something. Honestly, such companies should just go bankrupt.
    It is quite harsh to say this but I mean... come on! If you don't give anything about the quality of your work, go and start a business doing something that you do care about enough to deliver quality.
    Cars aren't throw away goods and parts fail on them, so it is (for me anyways) logical to make them practical to work on when it comes to repairs. This should be a manditory part to car design and not an option.
    The only thing such companies delivery is Chinese quality work that is in line of the quality of products you find at Chinese resellers. Cheap and easy throw away goods that make a quick buck.

    Now I have to be honest, and I do hope I won't hurt your feelings with this. I studied business a bit at the Ohio University and I know that the American way of doing business is more in line with the Chinese way than say the German way. That is high production speed with low costs to maximize profit is the way to go, compared to making an over-engineered product that costs but lasts and can be something be proud of.

    Which brings me to the much used word of duribility. Or misused word these days, as even a biological cheese is called durable nowadays... well, once it is gone it is gone. I can assure you that cheese doesn't last long in my household. So hardly durable. Lmao
    Anyway, I digress. Durability only comes from products that can be repaired, but most products these days are sadly not designed in that manner. Either they don't take it into account or like smartphones... they are just glued shut. They become throw away items.

    The issue is if we should accept such throw away fest as consumers though. Than again, humans are lazy by nature and it seems to get worse each younger generation. In which case it is a downwards spiral of these companies taking advantage of that and soon we can just as well throw away our electric cars every 3 to 5 years when the battery dies, just like how we do our phones. Or at least that is my fear.

    I do agree with the German over engineering but they aren't any better to work on and in most cases harder for no reason. All the car manufacturers are like this unfortunately. The days of the European cars being built better are sadly gone.
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  5. #725
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpwr View Post
    I do agree with the German over engineering but they aren't any better to work on and in most cases harder for no reason. All the car manufacturers are like this unfortunately. The days of the European cars being built better are sadly gone.
    You wont hurt my feelings.lol Its not so much they don't care about what they are designing but more the fact they don't know what happened before or after them. So say they design the heater box so if fits and functions like it needed to. Yay their job is done. The next person needs to make something fit between the heater box and the dashboard. You see how it snowballs. The more things they add to cars the worse this gets because you only have so much room. Be glad you don't own a new Ford diesel truck. There are a lot of things on the motor you need to take the cab off to do them. I wont work on them anymore because its more aggravation then its worth.
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  6. #726
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpwr View Post
    I do agree with the German over engineering but they aren't any better to work on and in most cases harder for no reason. All the car manufacturers are like this unfortunately. The days of the European cars being built better are sadly gone.
    I had more the 80's and 90's cars in mind. Especially the 90's had the best balance in terms of car design.

    Let us be honest though. Hardly anything is still made in Germany no matter the product. Just look at Bosch tools for example. At best they are made in Hungary. lol
    Everything has been given away to oversees companies nowadays. Here in Europe and I believe in Amerika too.
    The costs became to high for most companies, or they just saw dollar signs (or whatever currency) and just wanted to increase profit even if it was at the cost of quality.

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  7. #727
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusN View Post
    Can't like this post enough. Easily repairable with plenty supply of parts equals durable IMHO. Just ensuring that it can be recycled(after 2 years or less of use) alone just doesn't cut it and would be forbidden if it were up to me.
    We are starting to run in to that here. 10 year old vehicle that you cant buy parts for because the oe discontinued it and the aftermarket hasn't started making them yet. I just had to tell someone Friday he needed a 2500 dollar catalytic convertor you cant get so now he cant get his van inspected which means he cant drive it.
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  8. #728
    GT3 Pilot morpwr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    I had more the 80's and 90's cars in mind. Especially the 90's had the best balance in terms of car design.

    Let us be honest though. Hardly anything is still made in Germany no matter the product. Just look at Bosch tools for example. At best they are made in Hungary. lol
    Everything has been given away to oversees companies nowadays. Here in Europe and I believe in Amerika too.
    The costs became to high for most companies, or they just saw dollar signs (or whatever currency) and just wanted to increase profit even if it was at the cost of quality.

    Those cars yes new ones aren't anything but a name now. I remember people getting excited over a volvo that ONLY had 250000 miles on it. Im thinking they are nuts.lol But those older ones ran forever and they expected it to run for at least 400000. But I agree sadly most stuff is crap now. Just look at tvs. They used to last forever and if you wanted a good one you bought American made stuff like RCA now I don't think there is an american company left making tvs. You want a good one you buy a Sony or Samsung.
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  9. #729
    WMD Member Mad Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    I had more the 80's and 90's cars in mind. Especially the 90's had the best balance in terms of car design.

    Let us be honest though. Hardly anything is still made in Germany no matter the product. Just look at Bosch tools for example. At best they are made in Hungary. lol
    Everything has been given away to oversees companies nowadays. Here in Europe and I believe in Amerika too.
    The costs became to high for most companies, or they just saw dollar signs (or whatever currency) and just wanted to increase profit even if it was at the cost of quality.

    Bosch Lawnmowers are still made in the UK

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  10. #730
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpwr View Post
    We are starting to run in to that here. 10 year old vehicle that you cant buy parts for because the oe discontinued it and the aftermarket hasn't started making them yet. I just had to tell someone Friday he needed a 2500 dollar catalytic convertor you cant get so now he cant get his van inspected which means he cant drive it.
    Yeah, it was one of the reasons why I didn't want a Fiat concern product anymore. Hence I dreaded Konan his purchase of the coupe as well.

    A real shame! To be honest I would not mind if Opel made some classic cars again with a redesign of anything under the hood to improve safety and a modern engine for emissions.
    I mean... the Opel Kadett E (Vauxhall Astra) was everywhere back in the day just like the Omega (Carlton). The GM engines were indestructible as well, but the cars had the rust devil on their side...especially around the lip of the wheel arches.
    So if they want to make throw away cars they should try using old designs and updating them. Not everyone is in need of an arcade hall for a car like a Tesla or cats like that with big screens and touch panels.
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