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Thread: Nvidia RTX

  1. #21
    WMD Member satco1066's Avatar
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    no comment......

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  2. #22
    Superkart Pilot FxUK's Avatar
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    I might have to steal that image satco1066
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  3. #23
    WMD Member Mad Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Chaos 2.0 View Post
    Right now: RTX is a new-found gimmick. There's nothing new about ray tracing, and what has been displayed so far has been unimpressive. Currently: reflection resolutions are very low, and there's been no mention of performance metrics, nor the screen-space constraints which have been imposed on the of the lacklustre renders Nvidia has demonstrated. The only reason Nvidia is doing this, is to necessitate more powerful GPUs. Dx11 and (Dx12 to some extent) has been familiarised to the game dev industry, in a manner which has made very beautiful games far more accessible to midrange hardware than in the past. Such an environment is great for PC gamers, but not so great for the folks who need a reason to sell you more expensive stuff. Even with the introduction of 4K and multi-screen configurations, GPU processing power is too rapidly catching up. As I foresaw years ago: ray-tracing was the next, soon-approaching step. It is a shame though, that Nvidia seems to have locked their implementation to their brand of GPUs, and as they clearly seem to have done with Physx, it's obvious they will not optimise it to the best of their ability.

    What we need is a new software standard, around which hardware can be built. Not this gimmicky "Nvidia RTX" nonsense.
    You do realise MS has extended DX12 to add ray tracing (DirectX Raytracing or DXR) so the way the hardware is done is all abstracted to the same intermediate layer. Meaning AMD can come out with their own version of ray tracing hardware and it would work too... it even has a software fallback layer

    The whole point about ray tracing is it removes the need to keep finding more elaborate ways to cheat.. yes, the hardware needs to be more powerful, but you need to get the first step in...

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  4. #24
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    Indeed, there is nothing new about ray-tracing, heck it's been around since the 1960's.
    And we have all seen it, it has been used for pretty much any CGI effect in movies since the late 80's, and tv shows since the late 90's.

    Granted for a fully ray-traced image, like a Pixar movie take aboout 30 hours per frame to render.
    And RTX does not even come close to a fully raytraced frame yet, it's a quick effect mostly used for some shadows and or reflections.

    Now, it is a giant leap forwards in hardware raytracing but that is a bout it.
    And honestly more than five years away from being 'important' for gaming, at which point we will have 2080ti performance for 1050ti money at least.

    Sadly, AMD can't even keep up with Pascal.

    And with Turing I think it could quite easily be said that Nvidia has at least ten years head start compared to AMD. That's how long Nvidia has been developing Turing behind the scenes.

    They simply haven't had the resources to keep a similar research project going and will now pretty much have to start from scratch.
    It is not looking good for AMD GPU's.

    On top of this Intel has been recruiting their top guys for a year.
    Now Intel is actually closer than AMD to provide real competition, I suspect they are about to dust off and improve on the work from Larrabee and not to mention, the money to fund such a project.

    So I doubt intel will see any real competition from AMD any time soon.
    At best bet they will rule supreme for another couple of years and that is assuming Intel will pull something amazing out of their hat in two to three years time.
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  5. #25
    WMD Member pferreirag60's Avatar
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    I´m sorry, but you are wrong. Amd have not loosed technical to Nvidia, not even in software. Amd in the professional marketing have ray-tracing support in there professional cards. The problem with Amd was money, they could not produce two different cards to two different market´s. So they choose to do one card fits all. We will have to wait until 2020 to have something that will compete with Nvidia at the top. And in 2020, we will also have Intel, so it will be a 3 horse race
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  6. #26
    WMD Member Invincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pferreirag60 View Post
    And in 2020, we will also have Intel, so it will be a 3 horse race
    Of which one is expensive AF, one is crippled and slow and the other one is a baby.
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  7. #27
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Al View Post
    You do realise MS has extended DX12 to add ray tracing (DirectX Raytracing or DXR) so the way the hardware is done is all abstracted to the same intermediate layer. Meaning AMD can come out with their own version of ray tracing hardware and it would work too... it even has a software fallback layer

    The whole point about ray tracing is it removes the need to keep finding more elaborate ways to cheat.. yes, the hardware needs to be more powerful, but you need to get the first step in...
    A small step from Nvidia but a huge step for game development.

    ... that is how I see it. Even when it might not be applicable in all games right away. It was the same with all earlier new tech.

    GeForce 3: Introduced programmable vertex and pixel shaders, but only was really usable in the next generation of cards... the GeForce 4.

    Also with the introduction of Physx the cards weren't up to the task in real world scenarios, and it was deemed as too heavy for it adding merely naturally waving clothing and such.

    So yeah, if you really want a card for Ray Tracing than it might be better to wait a generation.
    If you are into VR and/or also like to play around with the latest tech, the more powerful card can be an option. Although even than I wouldn't buy a new card every generation, so if you are on a 1000 series card I wouldn't upgrade.

    This of course apart from the discussion if the prices asked are either ridiculous or well within the realm of reason.
    Straight up it is a cuckoo pricing but we don't know anything from independent sources about how the real world performance or this new generation is, how it compares and if all the R&D gone into it is in the end quite visible and worth it in the end product.
    I mean, for us oldies an Amiga 2000 in the 80s wasn't cheap either. It was at the time a piece of ultimate tech for at home (or in studios for music or rendering for TV and movies).

    No matter what. It isn't cheap and if you consider that you merely use it to play a game, how much do you love games to spend that much money on one computation task for that single card?
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  8. #28
    WMD Member satco1066's Avatar
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    Thats all right, Christaan.
    RTX or similar extensions will make their market in some years. No doubt about it.
    Devs will adapt new games, will find all possible tweaks to let the tensor and rtx cores work as intended and will also find methods to use this power for other kind of things.
    GPU computing is powerful.

    But current state is embrio to baby. Some devs and early adopters have it, as eyecatcher and for marketing reasons. Current games will have low to no advantage.

    But OP asked if we will see it in pCars2. And there is just one answer.
    99.9999999% NO.
    IMHO a 2 Seasonpass has more chance to come up.

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  9. #29
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satco1066 View Post
    Thats all right, Christaan.
    RTX or similar extensions will make their market in some years. No doubt about it.
    Devs will adapt new games, will find all possible tweaks to let the tensor and rtx cores work as intended and will also find methods to use this power for other kind of things.
    GPU computing is powerful.

    But current state is embrio to baby. Some devs and early adopters have it, as eyecatcher and for marketing reasons. Current games will have low to no advantage.

    But OP asked if we will see it in pCars2. And there is just one answer.
    99.9999999% NO.
    IMHO a 2 Seasonpass has more chance to come up.

    BTW. In my basement there are: 1 Amiga 1000, 2 Amiga 2000 , 1 A3000, 1 A3000T , 1 A4000 and 1 4000T. All bought by myself for professional use in video production.
    Yeah, well... as far as the OP his question goes I already answered it. If SMS does Ray Tracing they will do it with their own algorithm/tech developed in-house so that it can compile with their Madness engine in such a way that it can be applied cross platform.
    So no way that such a big task will be added to an already marketed and by now old game. The returns won't be there, and as said... the supporting tech isn't really there yet to do it. Let alone going VR crazy with it (those are just wild dreams still).

    I am quite on the fence to be honest if I will save up for an Rtx or not. Albeit mainly for the extra power to use with VR as my 970 is really at the lower limit of what is possible, so to properly enjoy VR an upgrade is actually necessary.
    Don't get me wrong though, the pricing is a big hurdle for me.

    Anyway, can't wait on the Rtx benchmarks, what the devs can do with the raw power of those cards and if there will be a 2nd season pass... preferably with a Yellowbird, Ferrari F1, Alfa Romeo, Donkervoort en maybe some more old DTM cars (Opel, Nissan, etc). Oh and preferably some Lotus competition.

    Now that I applied Remco his law, let me last say that I only have 1 Amiga 2000 on the attic. Which my father once bought to be as an upgrade his Sinclair ZX Spectrum as he wanted to know more about computers and so on. Later to buy a 486DX2 though. Still, the Amiga bought for 4000 Dutch gulden was kept till this day.
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  10. #30
    Superkart Pilot Rodders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FxUK View Post
    I might have to steal that image satco1066
    I already did
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