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Thread: Forza Horizon 4 demo is online

  1. #21
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1e I View Post
    I have no doubt the FFB is ok but physics wise it's designed for controllers, just as Forza Motorsport. I also don't know if I could play it in cockpit or hood cam while rushing through forests or doing 300m jumps ^^
    Indeed, that is one of the reasons chase cam and a controller work best. Also, most people that did try it with a wheel don’t like the feel of it. Can also be a personal preference of course.
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  2. #22
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breyzipp View Post
    Indeed, that is one of the reasons chase cam and a controller work best. Also, most people that did try it with a wheel don’t like the feel of it. Can also be a personal preference of course.
    A proper driving game has its FFB based off of the Physics, like in our beloved pCARS. So if the Physics is designed for controllers but the FFB is okay, than this tells me without having driven the game with a wheel (since my rig is broken) that the FFB is an independent system that takes cues from the road surface but not from the simulated Physics of the suspension geometry and tyres together.

    It's the same issue/gripe I have with Codemasters games (among others connected to this in relation to CM games). They do exactly that same thing of FFB taking cues from the road surface but not from a simulated system of suspension geometry and tyre physics as in realistic simulators. Codemasters make fun games though and so do T10/Playground Games. I just start to stumble across these developers say they made a realistic racing simulator (like they did with Dirt Rally) and than they can't even get the basics sorted... a proper simulation of Physics and Physics into FFB.

    So personally I always choose to play these with a gamepad. It's just the best way to enjoy them in their current state of development. Besides, it's fun to sometimes be a couch potato and just play games the simple way.
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  3. #23
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    Besides, it's fun to sometimes be a couch potato and just play games the simple way.
    Hahaha, I think that best describes my gamer life the past year.
    enjoying the best of both worlds in my living room - XBox One X SE (+ Elite controller) & PS4 Pro (+ GT:Sport DS4)
    Samsung UE65JS8500L 65" 3D 4K HDR SUHD LED TV ~ Denon AVR-X1300W + 4x Canton CD1090, Canton CD1050, Canton Sub600 ~ Apple TV 4K ~ comfy sofa
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  4. #24
    Superkart Pilot rich1e I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post

    It's the same issue/gripe I have with Codemasters games (among others connected to this in relation to CM games). They do exactly that same thing of FFB taking cues from the road surface but not from a simulated system of suspension geometry and tyre physics as in realistic simulators. Codemasters make fun games though and so do T10/Playground Games. I just start to stumble across these developers say they made a realistic racing simulator (like they did with Dirt Rally) and than they can't even get the basics sorted... a proper simulation of Physics and Physics into FFB.
    Now, according to former chief game designer Paul Coleman, who uses to be a rally co-driver in RL, DIRT Rally physics were a little bit primitive. It appears that many people think the harder a racing simulation is to drive the more realistic it is, and that's just plain wrong in my view. A race car is designed to make it as easy as possible for the driver to drive as fast as possible, no matter if it's made for circuit racing or rally.

    DIRT Rally is so incredibly unforgiving that it wants to kill you for the tiniest mistake you make. I loved and hated it at the same time. I used to watch a lot of WRC and still use to watch it and I must say even DIRT 4, which is said to be less sim (even in sim mode), is more realistic. Prime example are the Sweden stages in DR. The tracks are narrow and as soon as you touch the snow banks your car either spins out or stops. There's no way to save it. Stage ruined, restart again. It's very hard to drive and very rewarding if you get it right but it's not realistic in my view.
    It's really hard for me not to be hyped about DIRT Rally 2.0 when I see the latest gameplay. I see improved DIRT Rally physics and the fact that they implement a dynamic track evolution makes me feel like a little child a few days before christmas.

    Edit: Here you have the words of Paul Coleman on the so called 'hardcore simmer's' criticism.



    Is it off-topic being off-topic in the off-topic section? ()
    Last edited by rich1e I; 06-10-2018 at 23:51.
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  5. #25
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1e I View Post
    Now, according to former chief game designer Paul Coleman, who uses to be a rally co-driver in RL, said that the DIRT Rally physics were a little bit primitive. It appears that many people think the harder a racing simulation is to drive the more realistic it is, and that's just plain wrong in my view. A race car is designed to make it as easy as possible for the driver to drive as fast as possible, no matter if it's made for circuit racing or rally.

    DIRT Rally is so incredibly unforgiving that it wants to kill you for the tiniest mistake you make. I loved and hated it at the same time. I used to watch a lot of WRC and still use to watch it and I must say even DIRT 4, which is said to be less sim (even in sim mode), is more realistic. Prime example are the Sweden stages in DR. The track is narrow and soon as you touch the snow banks your car either spins out or stops. There's no way to save it. Stage ruined, restart again. It's very hard to drive and very rewarding if you get it right but it's not realistic in my view.
    It's really hard for me not to be hyped about DIRT Rally 2.0 when I see the latest gameplay. I see improved DIRT Rally physics and the fact that they implement a dynamic track evolution makes me feel like a little child a few days before christmas.

    Edit: Here you have the words of Paul Coleman on the so called 'hardcore simmer's' criticism.



    Is it off-topic being off-topic in the off-topic section? ()
    Can I be quite frank. I'd love for them to show me any core code that has changed in the EGO engine in the last ten years related to either physics or wheel controllers/FFB. These guys say they changed and improved their games each year again and again, but once you get the game it's the same old thing over and over again. Same looks, same physics, same controller setting possibilities and so on. The only thing they change from year to year is merely the figures that are being fed into the EGO engine but the computations (so the core systems) itself haven't changed since the EGO engine was created.

    To be frank, it's so unchanged that I am thinking that the original creators of the EGO engine have either moved on to a different business or have passed away leaving not a single shred of documentation on how the behemoth of a game engine works, so nobody can work on the engine anymore at its core level.

    Forza is different in this and here you can sense that there have been core changes made to the game, especially if you compare them. Hence I can still get excited for Forza games up to a point, to a point because it's not really my genre. Codemasters have stayed stagnant for over a decade now and it's long past her prime in my opinion.


    Also about that dynamic track that you are excited about. This is just simply using available tech. For as far as I can tell the Ego engine creates a road surface in segments along an entire stage, and you can basically say the resolution of the road surface is 10 segments wide and 100 segments long. So if Dirt 2 for example had just 3 segments wide and 25 long segments for a stage, Dirt Rally 2 might now have 10 segments wide and 100 long. The higher the resolution the more dynamic you can make the road surface and create areas of ruts on the driving line and loose surface material areas on the outside of a corner.

    Now if you create levels of terrain damage from a "virgin stage" to a "fully roughed up" level, than match up each level with at what position the player starts in the rally trial. Yay... we have mimicked dynamic track evolution with what was already in the game engine since WAAAAAY BACK. Unfortunately since it doesn't change live during a run it also means it won't work in rally cross.

    This is also something you don't hear the devs talk about... they say if you start at this and this place during a rally, after which I am yeah... but everyone starts all at once during rally cross and so what about that? What are you hiding?

    This dynamic terrain of Codemasters is in my opinion a workaround makeshift way of getting closer to Project CARS 2's live track, which works a lot better as seen by how well rally cross in Project CARS 2 was received version Dirt Rally.
    System: Intel i7 2600k @ 4.2GHz - Noctua NH-D14 - MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) - Vengeance LP 16GB 1600mhz - MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G @ 1114Mhz - AverMedia Live Gamer HD (1080p@30hz capture card) - OCZ Vertex 4 256GB (FW: 1.5) - Creative Soundblaster X-Fi titanium champ - Logitech Z-560 4.1 - Philips 32PFL9604H/12 32inch TV

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