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Thread: Automobilista 2

  1. #861
    GT3 Pilot Haiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
    Okay, so finally had some time to test this game. First impressions are.. "meh.."

    Especially FFB, while it isn't awful it most definitely isn't good. How on earth some of you guys think this is better than pC2 is just beyond me. I can sort of understand that if you only drove some weird FFB files by Jack Spade (why so many thought those were good would actually explain the AMS2 FFB and why some think that is good)..

    my point is: why the heck is my wheel see-sawing back and forth violently from the tiniest bumps?? That makes absolutely no sense.. that's not how a real wheel works. I don't want no damn suspension physics going through my FFB wheel. It makes the whole driving experience way exaggerated and difficult. I actually suspect there must surely be some bugs here. I haven't figured any way to turn it off either.

    It's like 80% suspension movement and 20% actual tire grip. Like.. wtf? Seriously??

    .. and no, it's not even remotely close to how Automobilista 1 FFB works. This is just plain broken compared to AMS1.

    EDIT: Thrustmaster T300 RS is my wheel. Tried it so far at default FFB settings in the TM control panel. Need to start experimenting if it gets better by tweaking some things. Anyhow, so far I'm not at all impressed and it just reminds me that some people just like LOUD BASS - SCOOPED MIDS - TREBBLE!! and hate finesse and actual accuracy
    Definitely not my experience. I did turn down that minimum low force scale, though. 50 just seemed insane for a minimum force setting. I turned it to 0, and haven't tried raising it.

    I was never a fan of PCars1 or 2 FFB, though. I don't think AMS2 feels like PCars2. I can tell they're using the same engine, but the FFB feels quite different in AMS2.
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  2. #862
    WMD Member John Hargreaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
    Okay, so finally had some time to test this game. First impressions are.. "meh.."

    Especially FFB, while it isn't awful it most definitely isn't good. How on earth some of you guys think this is better than pC2 is just beyond me. I can sort of understand that if you only drove some weird FFB files by Jack Spade (why so many thought those were good would actually explain the AMS2 FFB and why some think that is good)..

    my point is: why the heck is my wheel see-sawing back and forth violently from the tiniest bumps?? That makes absolutely no sense.. that's not how a real wheel works. I don't want no damn suspension physics going through my FFB wheel. It makes the whole driving experience way exaggerated and difficult. I actually suspect there must surely be some bugs here. I haven't figured any way to turn it off either.

    It's like 80% suspension movement and 20% actual tire grip. Like.. wtf? Seriously??
    I'm broadly in agreement with you here, but I do think there are some cars in AMS2 that feel very realistic. I like the Roco P3 car a lot, and most of the Caterhams, especially in the wet. I think Reiza are heading in the right direction but there is a very powerful consensus among the majority of sim racers about how things should feel, and a lot of this seems to refer to how other sims feel. In WMD the mantra was always 'is it realistic, we don't care how other sims feel', I think that was a much healthier attitude, but ultimately a costly one.
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  3. #863
    WMD Member bporion's Avatar
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    can the guys that have a Fanatec V2 share their FFB settings and in game also ? thanks
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  4. #864
    GT3 Pilot Haiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hargreaves View Post
    I'm broadly in agreement with you here, but I do think there are some cars in AMS2 that feel very realistic. I like the Roco P3 car a lot, and most of the Caterhams, especially in the wet. I think Reiza are heading in the right direction but there is a very powerful consensus among the majority of sim racers about how things should feel, and a lot of this seems to refer to how other sims feel. In WMD the mantra was always 'is it realistic, we don't care how other sims feel', I think that was a much healthier attitude, but ultimately a costly one.
    I feel like the quest for "realism" sometimes conflicts with what's best for sim racing. I like and want realism, but balance that with getting the feel I need for sim racing and racing online.
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  5. #865
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bporion View Post
    can the guys that have a Fanatec V2 share their FFB settings and in game also ? thanks
    Flavour: Default
    Gain: 80
    LFB: 0
    FX: 0

    That was the last I used. Anything above 80 gain seems to clip.
    Also low force boost removes the deadzone that they have in their force feedback system, but at expense of having less dynamics.

    I did note yesterday that there is a bit more going on FFB wise, but it is definitely subpar the Project CARS 2 FFB in information it can give.
    Never was a fan of FX and so I switched it off.

    Also I hate low speed smoothing or as Reiza calls it parking steering or something like that. The system used to check for the cars speed and adjust FFB accordingly seems to have a sort of recent every clock tick, which gives a grainy sensation.
    So personally I am thinking of trying to remove that and see what happens.
    Christiaan's Pure FFB (latest version: v1.06 (date: 14-01-2020)): http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...ARS2-FFB-File)

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  6. #866
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    Some amount of LFB is necessary. Start with 50 and adjust from there.

    I wonder how many people get a wrong impression due to suboptimal FFB settings, wheel configuration and possible game bugs (many have reported brake pedal to be overly sensitive).

    Ideally the game should use whatever are the best settings for each setup by default. It probably will at some point but many things are still being dialed out.

    So if you are a resident PC2 FFB expert, keep that in mind.

    Quoting Domagoj Logvric, from Reiza forums:

    "Low force boost will never saturate high forces. It is meant to "boost low forces". Without affecting higher ones (or having negligible effect on them)"
    "Low force boost does not clip high forces, i can assure you that."
    Last edited by bubbleguuum; 02-04-2020 at 20:47.
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  7. #867
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haiden View Post
    Definitely not my experience. I did turn down that minimum low force scale, though. 50 just seemed insane for a minimum force setting. I turned it to 0, and haven't tried raising it.

    I was never a fan of PCars1 or 2 FFB, though. I don't think AMS2 feels like PCars2. I can tell they're using the same engine, but the FFB feels quite different in AMS2.
    AMS2 feels absolutely nothing at all like pC2. It's _completely_ different. It's not good though. I also totally disagree about the minimum forces (probably because I have only a T300) actually turning UP the minimum low force helps a lot. Setting it to zero, which I immediately did out of instinct, gives the worst experience.. then it feels just like "suspension movement only". Currently I'm running Gain at about 65 and minimum low force between 35 to 65, depending on car. The more suspension movement the car has, the higher I have to put the minimum low force scale to get rid of the wobbly spring like FFB.

    Also, I've now driven AMS 1 and AMS 2 back to back many times today and they are very different from one another. There are some similarities but not a single car in AMS 1 is so "springy and wobbly" as in AMS 2.

    What annoys me the most is that there is a real lack of "fine detail/finesse" in the FFB (and I do NOT MEAN road noise and bumps!!). It's almost as if Reiza have caved in to the pressure from the general public (of which 95% don't seem to know how to drive even basic laptimes around simple tracks, as witnessed in both iRacing and pC2 multiplayer, yet they have huge opinions and massive influence on how FFB "should feel".. this is then what we get eh?). Sure it's a bit cool to drive over a sprite on the road and the wheel quickly wobbles from left to right.. wow "details!!". Sigh.. I don't WANT my wheel to wobble unrealistically over every small bump.. I want GRIP information, as a real wheel gives.

    Now having said that, there IS grip information hidden in the blur of springy sprongy mess of a FFB that is AMS 2 right now but it can only be properly felt and extracted by upping the minimum force thing, by a lot.. which then in turn reduces the overall dynamic range.

    Part of the blame also falls on abysmally bad car setups. I was able to run 2 seconds per lap faster times once I seriously tweaked the Brazil Stock car setups.. I mean, do they REALLY run with -5 degrees of camber front?? Really?? Combine that with 6 degrees of caster and you have a complete disaster of a feel to the wheel and no way of knowing where the actual grip is. I also tweaked the height and suspension, combined with FFB settings tweaks like running minimum at 55 immensely helped the whole situation.

    So yeah, anyhow I'm just running a T300 so it's very possible Reiza are doing some shenanigans behind the scenes when detecting wheels. My settings of minimum force may not at all correspond to your settings as I see you are running Accuforce v2 DD wheel. It's possible each setting is scaled in relation to the wheel which is detected.

    Anyhow, I'm still learning the feel for each car and the overall physics/FFB but at the moment I am definitely not impressed. I do however see potential as I know what the madness engine is technically capable of. I also found at least one car that I do quite like to drive, the Rocco 001 is awesome in AMS 2. In general, all the cars with stiff and "tight" suspension seem to annoy me less.. but as soon as you run any of the more vintage cars the FFB starts annoying me a lot (and this is not at all the case in AMS 1).
    Last edited by bmanic; 02-04-2020 at 20:52.

  8. #868
    WMD Member Christiaan van Beilen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleguuum View Post
    Some amount of LFB is necessary. Start with 50 and adjust from there.

    I wonder how many people get a wrong impression due to suboptimal FFB settings, wheel configuration and possible game bugs (many have reported brake pedal to be overly sensitive).

    Ideally the game should use whatever are the best settings for each setup by default. It probably will at some point but many things are still being dialed out.

    So if you are a resident PC2 FFB expert, keep that in mind.

    Quoting Domagoj Logvric, from Reiza forums:

    "Low force boost will never saturate high forces. It is meant to "boost low forces". Without affecting higher ones (or having negligible effect on them)"
    "Low force boost does not clip high forces, i can assure you that."
    LFB doesn't saturate high forces but it does smooth out low and low-mid frequency forces. For example track undulations and the pull that can have on the steering wheel.

    So ideally I'd have this off. Even more ideal would be a lower level access to whatever Reiza is doing to the FFB and have the pC2 system reinstated. This so you could have the option to use one or the other, or even blend aspects of both.

    The brake pedal isn't sensitive but the amount of deceleration made possible is too high in various cars. Even in those that are supposed to have lesser brakes I can still brake way later than I should. As in all cars I can easily decelerate at the 80 meter mark.
    Christiaan's Pure FFB (latest version: v1.06 (date: 14-01-2020)): http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sho...ARS2-FFB-File)

    Nicknames elsewhere on the web (incl. Steam, XBN, PSN, etc): LogiForce or LogiForce86

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  9. #869
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    Flavour: Default
    Gain: 80
    LFB: 0
    FX: 0

    That was the last I used. Anything above 80 gain seems to clip.
    Also low force boost removes the deadzone that they have in their force feedback system, but at expense of having less dynamics.

    I did note yesterday that there is a bit more going on FFB wise, but it is definitely subpar the Project CARS 2 FFB in information it can give.
    Never was a fan of FX and so I switched it off.

    Also I hate low speed smoothing or as Reiza calls it parking steering or something like that. The system used to check for the cars speed and adjust FFB accordingly seems to have a sort of recent every clock tick, which gives a grainy sensation.
    So personally I am thinking of trying to remove that and see what happens.
    Try running low minimum force thing at much higher numbers. Yes I know one would intuitively want to lower them as it DOES reduce overall dynamic range.. but at least this way you get a lot more actual tire information. I suspect they are scaling a LOT of things behind the scenes with that one control, not just compression or upwards scaling (aka tighten center).

    LFB = 0 => absolutely horribly wobbly and useless FFB in my opinion

    LFB = 35 to 65 => massively reduced overall dynamic range but actual useful information also coming through.
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  10. #870
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    Even more ideal would be a lower level access to whatever Reiza is doing to the FFB and have the pC2 system reinstated. This so you could have the option to use one or the other, or even blend aspects of both.
    This. I really hope Reiza exposes ALL the parameters again so that we can properly tweak the system. I really do not like the scaling they have going right now. Frankly, to me it just feels extremely weird and wobbly on many cars.
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