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Thread: Tire pressure question

  1. #21
    WMD Member Scott Coffey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpcdem View Post
    If after 5 laps your pressures are say at 2.2 bar, then you will be sliding all over the place at that point in time, so of course it needs not to be ignored. You need to adjust pressures so they are in the optimal range when you need to use them. For qualifying, this is when you start your flying lap. For the race, it's the duration of the race. Temperatures are a separate thing.
    When you say "duration of the race", does that mean the highest pressure that you'll see during the course of the race?

    This is an important point at Dubai in the summer, where the first couple of laps will be at optimal temperatures, and the remainder of the race will be at > optimal temperatures.
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  2. #22
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    Let's talk with actual numbers, say that you choose some numbers for cold pressures, then run several laps and you notice that hot pressures fluctuate between 1.8 to 2.1 bar, depending on the position in the track, cars being ahead or not, how much you push, laps passed etc. This will tell you that you had chosen high cold pressures for the general conditions, because for a long part of the race you are using pressures >= 2.0bar, which will make the car slide a lot. So you'll need to lower your cold pressures and make them fluctuate say between 1.7 to 2.0 hot, which is much better. (Normally the fluctuation is much less, after driving for a couple laps, but just for the sake of the argument I used that 0.3 fluctuation).

    So there's no rule "when should you measure pressures". It's the other way around, you see that your pressures are too high or too low (after driving for at least a couple of laps), so there's not enough grip, so you must adjust the cold pressures accordingly. You just try to have pressures in optimal absolute values for as much of the duration of the race as possible. "Hot" pressure means the more or less stable pressure you have after running a few laps, not the pressure at a specific given temperature.
    Last edited by cpcdem; 30-05-2019 at 14:48.
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  3. #23
    LMP2 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Coffey View Post
    So I *think* that's the answer I was after. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by cpcdem View Post
    ...

    So there's no rule "when should you measure pressures". It's the other way around, you see that your pressures are too high or too low (after driving for at least a couple of laps), so there's not enough grip, so you must adjust the cold pressures accordingly. You just try to have pressures in optimal absolute values for as much of the duration of the race as possible. "Hot" pressure means the more or less stable pressure you have after running a few laps, not the pressure at a specific given temperature.
    This is the answer you're after, Coffey.
    You want to be in the correct pressure for the maximum amount of time possible, ie the duration of the race. Whatever temperature your tyres get to, optimal or not, you want to be in the right pressure window.
    If you're not getting optimum temp (le mans raining for example) at least get the right pressure. The conditions and track will dictate your tyre temp (and your pace) so its mostly out of your control but the pressures are in your control totally via setup.
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  4. #24
    WMD Member Scott Coffey's Avatar
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    OK, I think it's finally sunk in now.

    Thanks for the replies!
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  5. #25
    Kart Driver supremedk's Avatar
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    Do you use PCARS Telemetry? Its a good tool for being able to look back at data at any point in a lap after the fact. Its hard to look at the HUD while driving at certain points, as I'm sure you know.

    Remember "threshold", when you are driving consistently temps and pressures will stop building (temps will vary across the lap as they heat up while taking cornering loads) after a handful of laps, thats when you want to take your #'s. If you have your pressures in the window your temps will be there too, for that fact, temp wise i only monitor the max, as to not over heat, unless you do something crazy you won't lose temp.

    As mentioned, if you are trying to say put in a quick lap in quali you want to reach your optimal quicker, so you will up the starting pressure. you will for sure over pressure after a few laps, but hopefully you nailed your lap while the tires were at your target.

    Where on the lap you get your data from will depend on what you are looking for, look for max #'s during the highest load corners, look for min #'s towards the end of a long straight, halfway down a straight is usually a good point as a decent average of the two. But however you decide to do it, do it the same every time. Racing is about repeatability and consistency!!
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  6. #26
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpcdem View Post
    Let's talk with actual numbers, say that you choose some numbers for cold pressures, then run several laps and you notice that hot pressures fluctuate between 1.8 to 2.1 bar, depending on the position in the track, cars being ahead or not, how much you push, laps passed etc. This will tell you that you had chosen high cold pressures for the general conditions, because for a long part of the race you are using pressures >= 2.0bar, which will make the car slide a lot. So you'll need to lower your cold pressures and make them fluctuate say between 1.7 to 2.0 hot, which is much better. (Normally the fluctuation is much less, after driving for a couple laps, but just for the sake of the argument I used that 0.3 fluctuation).

    So there's no rule "when should you measure pressures". It's the other way around, you see that your pressures are too high or too low (after driving for at least a couple of laps), so there's not enough grip, so you must adjust the cold pressures accordingly. You just try to have pressures in optimal absolute values for as much of the duration of the race as possible. "Hot" pressure means the more or less stable pressure you have after running a few laps, not the pressure at a specific given temperature.
    That's exactly how you should do it. Define an optimal pressure/temperature range and try to maximize the time your tires are spending in that range.
    Real life engineers are setting up math channels for exactly this kinda stuff in their telemetry software:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's just a simple time counter but it's very useful to determine your tires' efficiency.

    And if you want to judge tire efficinecy over a whole race/stint, you can simply create a run chart that displays the maximum values of every lap graphically.
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