Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47

Thread: How to drive Formula C?

  1. #11
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,219
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregow View Post
    I had similar issues at first with the Clio Cup, though I definitely find the Formula C harder to tame. Sort of reminded me of a Peugeot 205 GTI on gravel (which is sort of like going to bed with an axe murderer). Found lots of people saying that the car is messed up and ridiculous setups to keep the rear end planted. After looking into it more I found that the car in the game is actually spot on. You just have to drive it properly. Later apexes, use the over steer to turn in, slam the throttle to straighten out. Great fun to drive.
    While what you describe is true enough for the Clio Cup it has absolutely nothing to do with the Formula C which just has poor default setups (both of them). The car is however possible to tune so that it is completely neutral and "very easy" to drive. Having it slightly darty and on the brink of oversteer all the time is still the fastest way around the lap. I think the default Loose setup tries to do this but in my opinion fails completely. It actually is a very understeery setup, hence the problems with the snap. The Formula C is also a surprisingly Aero sensitive car where the aerodynamics matter which immediately means that rake plays a real role which in turn means the suspension + dampers + arb stuff needs to be on point and match the requirements for the track.. thus making a fast basic setup that works everywhere will be difficult. It is however possible to make a really truly stable setup (unlike the "stable" default which still just ends up snap oversteering due to excessive understeer).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregow View Post
    Not saying you're wrong. Formula C may or may not suck in PCars 2, but it seems like a bad idea to start playing with setups when you're far from getting the most out of the car.
    No it's not. On the contrary.. making a GOOD basic setup is extremely important or you'll end up learning very bad habits, that is, you are forcefully learning to compromise your driving around a "broken" car. Fix the setup to be truly neutral. Then discover what the actual car is like.. THEN make the setup more extreme and truly drive your pants off.
    Last edited by bmanic; 23-07-2019 at 23:06.
    The following 5 users likes this Post: blinkngone, hkraft300, MrGold, Shepard2603, Smoked_Cheddar


  2. #12
    Superkart Pilot
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Portland Oregon (PIR)
    Posts
    148
    Platform
    PC
    My solution a year or so ago was to use the sport tires, they seemed to have more grip.

    They made some changes to the car, which has made it different.

    Less power, maybe less grippy tires, not sure.

    but a formula car should be able to be driven aggressively, if you're having to control the drift, something isn't right.

    I "did" know how to drive the car, but not anymore.

    http://cars2-stats-steam.wmdportal.c...cle=3253292325

    I cannot get back close to that time. Perhaps i can try 3rd place's setup. because theirs was more recent.

  3. #13
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    57
    Platform
    PC
    Mate, you definitely need a setup for the car. Stock sucks!
    I find that playing with the diff, softening the front ARB and increasing front downforce is a good place to start. On the plus side, car is super reactive to setup changes and in that regard it is a super useful learning car.

  4. #14
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    77
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by bmanic View Post
    While what you describe is true enough for the Clio Cup it has absolutely nothing to do with the Formula C which just has poor default setups (both of them). The car is however possible to tune so that it is completely neutral and "very easy" to drive. Having it slightly darty and on the brink of oversteer all the time is still the fastest way around the lap. I think the default Loose setup tries to do this but in my opinion fails completely. It actually is a very understeery setup, hence the problems with the snap. The Formula C is also a surprisingly Aero sensitive car where the aerodynamics matter which immediately means that rake plays a real role which in turn means the suspension + dampers + arb stuff needs to be on point and match the requirements for the track.. thus making a fast basic setup that works everywhere will be difficult. It is however possible to make a really truly stable setup (unlike the "stable" default which still just ends up snap oversteering due to excessive understeer).
    On what basis do you reckon the Formula C default setups are all gaumed up?

    I figured the aero could play a role so I've adjusted to carrying more speed into the corner, with an earlier apex, and that helps with the turn in. After adjusting my line and getting a better feel for the car, the oversteer is no longer a problem. Pretty easy to control actually, as long as I don't mess up or run on cold tyres. Understeer, however, is still an issue.

    Now, what if I had started tuning the car before figuring this out?

    I don't think there is such a thing as a completely neutral car unless it's parked.

    Perhaps the FC is setup to be steered with throttle and brake? I'm not very good at left foot braking but my initial trials suggest that some corners could successfully be negotiated that way. I'll have to keep at it and see.


    No it's not. On the contrary.. making a GOOD basic setup is extremely important or you'll end up learning very bad habits, that is, you are forcefully learning to compromise your driving around a "broken" car. Fix the setup to be truly neutral. Then discover what the actual car is like.. THEN make the setup more extreme and truly drive your pants off.
    I could not disagree more. Worst case is I get to learn how to get the most out of a poorly tuned car.
    The following user likes this Post: ProDriver


  5. #15
    WMD Member MaximusN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Close enough to enjoy the sounds of the TT-circuit
    Posts
    2,184
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregow View Post
    On what basis do you reckon the Formula C default setups are all gaumed up?

    I figured the aero could play a role so I've adjusted to carrying more speed into the corner, with an earlier apex, and that helps with the turn in. After adjusting my line and getting a better feel for the car, the oversteer is no longer a problem. Pretty easy to control actually, as long as I don't mess up or run on cold tyres. Understeer, however, is still an issue.

    Now, what if I had started tuning the car before figuring this out?

    I don't think there is such a thing as a completely neutral car unless it's parked.

    Perhaps the FC is setup to be steered with throttle and brake? I'm not very good at left foot braking but my initial trials suggest that some corners could successfully be negotiated that way. I'll have to keep at it and see.



    I could not disagree more. Worst case is I get to learn how to get the most out of a poorly tuned car.
    You could also reverse that. Why would you drive around 'problems' a car has when you can tune them out? Unless it's a setup that has been proven to be the fastest if you are able to conform your driving style to it(which can't be the case because it's the same for all tracks). You can at least try and do some setup work and see how that effects the laptimes and tyre wear(because it sounds like this default setup could eat your front tyres in the long run).

    I always try to tune a car if it's too far from my driving instincts. Most importantly because it prevents split-second reactions from ending up in a mess.

    You don't buy a pair of shoes that hurt your feet and adjust the way you walk, do you? A racing car is meant to be setup to fit your needs, not to be driven the way it comes out of the truck.

    And of course it's a good exercise to learn how you can drive around a certain problem, but if you want to drive better times(and IMHO enjoy yourself more) it's better to see how you can tune around a certain problem.
    Last edited by MaximusN; 24-07-2019 at 11:06.
    Life's too short to front wheel drive
    DD1, 918 Wheel, SQ V1.5 Shifter, CS Handbrake V1.5 , V3 pedals, INNO3D 1080Ti, 4770K, 55" UHD LG/Vive

    /// MaximusDoriftus (Steam)

  6. #16
    WMD Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    883
    Sports tyres and working on braking as this car locks up very easily. Short, sharp, release turn and accelerate.

  7. #17
    Kart Driver
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    77
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusN View Post
    You could also reverse that. Why would you drive around 'problems' a car has when you can tune them out? Unless it's a setup that has been proven to be the fastest if you are able to conform your driving style to it(which can't be the case because it's the same for all tracks). You can at least try and do some setup work and see how that effects the laptimes and tyre wear(because it sounds like this default setup could eat your front tyres in the long run).

    I always try to tune a car if it's too far from my driving instincts. Most importantly because it prevents split-second reactions from ending up in a mess.

    You don't buy a pair of shoes that hurt your feet and adjust the way you walk, do you? A racing car is meant to be setup to fit your needs, not to be driven the way it comes out of the truck.

    And of course it's a good exercise to learn how you can drive around a certain problem, but if you want to drive better times(and IMHO enjoy yourself more) it's better to see how you can tune around a certain problem.
    Reason is, you can't engineer yourself out of bad driving. You just end up going slower than your and the cars potential. That's why I insist on trying the limits of what I and the car can do, before I start to tune it. Which I will do, by the way, but not right now.
    During my short time with PCars 2 I've actually already seen numerous examples of bad tuning ultimately limiting the potential of both car and driver. People trying to tune out problems that don't really exist, ending up with cars that don't drive as well as they could. Herein also comes what I like to call "the fallacy of success". Meaning, just because you see good improvements and lap times you assume it's good. Which it could be, if it means you win the race, but it's easy to miss the performance that's been left untapped on the table.

    Sure, I don't adjust my walking according to my shoes. But neither would I go to, say, Porsche and tell them the car sucks because I can't drive it fast. Well, at least not until I've really dug deep and got to know the car. It could be that Carroll Smiths old sentiment of Porsches holds true, but I wouldn't know.

    By the way, I don't enjoy myself the most when only going for better lap times. I love the whole process of systematically trying to improve myself, and the car. But to do that you also have isolate the factors as best you can. Like with Formula C, I know for a fact that my driving is way off from the potential of the car even at default setup.
    The following user likes this Post: cpcdem


  8. #18
    WMD Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    883
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregow View Post
    Reason is, you can't engineer yourself out of bad driving. You just end up going slower than your and the cars potential. That's why I insist on trying the limits of what I and the car can do, before I start to tune it. Which I will do, by the way, but not right now.
    During my short time with PCars 2 I've actually already seen numerous examples of bad tuning ultimately limiting the potential of both car and driver. People trying to tune out problems that don't really exist, ending up with cars that don't drive as well as they could. Herein also comes what I like to call "the fallacy of success". Meaning, just because you see good improvements and lap times you assume it's good. Which it could be, if it means you win the race, but it's easy to miss the performance that's been left untapped on the table.

    Sure, I don't adjust my walking according to my shoes. But neither would I go to, say, Porsche and tell them the car sucks because I can't drive it fast. Well, at least not until I've really dug deep and got to know the car. It could be that Carroll Smiths old sentiment of Porsches holds true, but I wouldn't know.

    By the way, I don't enjoy myself the most when only going for better lap times. I love the whole process of systematically trying to improve myself, and the car. But to do that you also have isolate the factors as best you can. Like with Formula C, I know for a fact that my driving is way off from the potential of the car even at default setup.
    I agree with this and you can master the car in the stable set up with a bit of practice. I learnt to drive this on Monaco, it was difficult for a bit mainly due to the ease of lock ups but I soon had great fun out of it

  9. #19
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,219
    Platform
    PC
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregow View Post
    On what basis do you reckon the Formula C default setups are all gaumed up?
    Eh? That question is like asking: How do you know an instrument is out of tune? Answer: You hear it!! It sounds horrible. If you can not hear a completely out of tune instrument, you need practice from the very basics. Ok, to be fair you can measure instruments and check their tuning down to the tiniest decimal. You can kind of do this with race cars too.. but it requires discipline and __consistent__ driving.

    I can drive the Formula C lap after lap with mostly a delta (change of ..) of around 0.1 seconds when doing well. Sometimes it's even less. So, this gives me a way to accurately "measure" what the setups give me in terms of both raw speed and more importantly, reliability/consistency. Having now played with the setups a bit I've managed to cut down more than 1.5 seconds (!!!) per lap.. around Oschersleben B which is barely a 1 minute lap. So yeah.. it's HUGE. Not to mention I don't have to be nearly as careful when driving the car. I can easily chuck it around without fear of spinning. It is still possible to spin but nowhere near what the default setups cause. And like I said, the default setups, both of them, suffer from chronic understeer. They don't allow you to actually turn the car properly, thus causing it to feel like it's oversteering suddenly and violently.

    I'll most likely be playing pCars 2 again next week when I get home. I'll post some setup examples then (and take on a few world records as it should be possible to be at least in the top 10 of many tracks).

    I figured the aero could play a role so I've adjusted to carrying more speed into the corner, with an earlier apex, and that helps with the turn in. After adjusting my line and getting a better feel for the car, the oversteer is no longer a problem. Pretty easy to control actually, as long as I don't mess up or run on cold tyres. Understeer, however, is still an issue.

    Now, what if I had started tuning the car before figuring this out?

    I don't think there is such a thing as a completely neutral car unless it's parked.

    Perhaps the FC is setup to be steered with throttle and brake? I'm not very good at left foot braking but my initial trials suggest that some corners could successfully be negotiated that way. I'll have to keep at it and see.



    I could not disagree more. Worst case is I get to learn how to get the most out of a poorly tuned car.[/QUOTE]

  10. #20
    WMD Member bmanic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    1,219
    Platform
    PC
    Just looked at the Orschesleben B times.. I would easily be at the top. Also with the Caterham SP300R I would have an almost gold medal and a very solid silver.. something I wasn't even near to achieving without heavily tweaking the default setup with the help of Race Sim Tools (highly recommended software for setup tweaking in pC2!). I was doing 1:02.9 and 1:02.8 laps with the defaults on the Caterham and those were a chore to do (also, without any boost used!) whilst after the setup changes I was consistently doing 1:01:8xx laps, no boost and even managed a 1:00:9xx lap once in practice (this time using boost).

Similar Threads

  1. Formula X steering wheel replica : Formula d'Italia
    By HoiHman in forum Off Topic Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 21-09-2018, 23:07
  2. Mixed tires in rain for Formula Rookie/Formula X
    By ortazel in forum Technical Help & Support (PC)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-12-2017, 15:42
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30-04-2016, 16:33
  4. [HVR] Hyperion Virtual Racing - Formula Rookie Championship - Formula Series
    By Snake9400 in forum PC - Multiplayer Event Planning
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 30-04-2016, 16:33
  5. Car setup for Formula A. Impossible to drive! HELP!
    By DBG in forum Project CARS on Xbox One
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 23-05-2015, 14:10

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •