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Thread: man, pc2 career mode really is a glorified list of races to grind through

  1. #11
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    It was literally a spreadsheet.

    It was not designed to simulate a career. Rather, it was designed as kind of "guide" how a player could get the best experience of the offline features without having to custom config every race. There's much room for improvement, by no means is it anything story or campaign oriented.

  2. #12
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    A few better features in PC1:
    -Limited contracts
    -Having the calendar, and being able to see all events in all series and their results
    -The contracts offering you to jump tiers (I went from Tier 8 straight to Tier 3)
    -Invitational event integration

    A few better features in PC2:
    -Teammates having similar liveries
    -Most AI carrying over from the 'beginner' series to the 'final' one.

  3. #13
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    One thing I would like to point out though:

    I know the OP is semi-suggesting it, but can we NOT, no matter what happens, have difficulty limits for each series.
    Maybe the game automatically or suggesting a 5% to 10% increase between tiers, but nothing enforced.

    If I take you on a trip down memory lane, PC1 was both my first sin and first game on console. I was, at least initially, the reason 0% AI existed.

    I remember doing 4 races of RWD P30 LMP1@Dubai Autodrome International, and my cheer joy at not finishing last in the fourth of them. It wasn't anything notable, just not last.

    Then, onto career mode, I spent 4 seasons in Kart One, slowly improving season-by-season, going from 6x12th to getting points to contesting for strong results to taking wins. If I had been forced to have the difficulty at even 20% or 25%, I probably would've given up on career at that point, as 10% took me several hours to master.

    You see, for however much it may take away the challenge for some it gave me a unique and special experience I will neither repeat nor be able to.

    And then, fast-forward a year and I'm on my (eighth?) save. I had different ones to give me different careers, different starting points, different nationalities, difficulties and race length. For this one, I didn't do qualifying and just did races. Of course, I had to have the difficulty lower than I would if I qualified. Another example of why the difficulty needs to be different.

    So I have a couple of suggestions...
    1) Have a 'recommended' difficulty.
    2) Have an achievement for completing career (remember the historic goals) at the highest difficulty, and another for doing it above or on the recommended difficulty.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewy32 View Post
    One thing I would like to point out though:

    I know the OP is semi-suggesting it, but can we NOT, no matter what happens, have difficulty limits for each series.
    Maybe the game automatically or suggesting a 5% to 10% increase between tiers, but nothing enforced.

    If I take you on a trip down memory lane, PC1 was both my first sin and first game on console. I was, at least initially, the reason 0% AI existed.
    If the game allowed 0% AI difficulty, but did not allow you to move up a tier until you were able to be competitive at, say 20% AI (per your suggestion at "suggested" AI), would that address your concern? Did you ever feel you were just filling out a checkbox of races as you went through your career?
    The following 2 users likes this Post: Keena, Stewy32


  5. #15
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    Yeah I agree- the sense of reward/achievement has to be there and can only exist with a genuine challenge. If you can just adjust/mod until that challenge is neutralised then that reward trigger that dumps all those lovely chems in my brain is gone. Ive lost count of how many career restarts Ive done because I knocked the difficulty down then felt that it wasnt a legitimate success. Maybe a tad OCD but consequence based career games should have the potential for Oh Dammit moments as well as Hell Yeah ones.
    Some of my best moments in PC2 have been from unlikely wins. Be a shame to not have that.
    The following user likes this Post: Stewy32


  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    If the game allowed 0% AI difficulty, but did not allow you to move up a tier until you were able to be competitive at, say 20% AI (per your suggestion at "suggested" AI), would that address your concern? Did you ever feel you were just filling out a checkbox of races as you went through your career?
    It would address it, but at the same time I do think it would be an issue. I don't think I would have the same patience in PC3/PCR, even if it did make it more rewarding.

    My personal approach would be for the difficulty bar to turn red once you were beneath a certain difficulty, and the message "By running below this difficulty you will be ineligible for achievement X". This gives you a sense that you are 'cheating',but at the same time allows you to do it.*

    Also, where would this end? Would you need 100% or even 120% to run in Tier 1? Even nowadays I'm not running quite at that difficulty.

    *Similar to Minecraft Survival, where you don't earn achievements if you enable cheats but can still play it perfectly well.

  7. #17
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    Imo a good way to encourage people to use more challenging settings is what the Forza games do, more money/xp for disabling driving aids, enabling damage & fuel/tyre wear, and increasing AI difficulty.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewy32 View Post
    My personal approach would be for the difficulty bar to turn red once you were beneath a certain difficulty, and the message "By running below this difficulty you will be ineligible for achievement X". This gives you a sense that you are 'cheating',but at the same time allows you to do it.*

    Also, where would this end? Would you need 100% or even 120% to run in Tier 1? Even nowadays I'm not running quite at that difficulty.
    You know what, I hear ya. Its good to hear from someone that actually liked the way it was designed.

    In my view, gaming is better when the game gets harder as you get deeper in it. As you get better. Super Mario levels get more complex and harder to beat as you go on. Final bosses are harder than early game bosses. Tier 1 should absolutely be 90-100% AI difficulty. There is no better achievement, and thus no better reward, than knowing that you got so good that you earned the ability to fight, and win, alongside 90-100% AI. Or that you beat the final boss at Sekiro. Or Mario Bros, or any other game worth playing.

    Even the path to getting better itself is rewarding. I don't know if you've played the latest Doom. Similar to driving sims, Doom doesn't hold your hand. It doesn't give you a path to follow. Doom gives you a handgun, throws you in the deep end of Hell and says "sink or swim, bitch". It's a dare. And yeah, you'll get your ass kicked at first. But then you try a different tactic each time, and before you know it you're slaying demons left and right and thinking "Who else wants some?" Duke Nukem style.

    It's not about having patience. Patience is something you do when you're doing something annoying.

    I would concede that Doom has lower difficulties. So as a compromise I would be okay with being able to race Tier 1 at 60 or 70%
    Last edited by Javaniceday; 27-08-2019 at 14:14.
    The following user likes this Post: Stewy32


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FS7 View Post
    Imo a good way to encourage people to use more challenging settings is what the Forza games do, more money/xp for disabling driving aids, enabling damage & fuel/tyre wear, and increasing AI difficulty.
    Only thing is do we want money/xp...I think not.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    You know what, I hear ya. Its good to hear from someone that actually liked the way it was designed.

    In my view, gaming is better when the game gets harder as you get deeper in it. As you get better. Super Mario levels get more complex and harder to beat as you go on. Final bosses are harder than early game bosses. Tier 1 should absolutely be 90-100% AI difficulty. There is no better achievement, and thus no better reward, than knowing that you got so good that you earned the ability to fight, and win, alongside 90-100% AI. Or that you beat the final boss at Sekiro. Or Mario Bros, or any other game worth playing.

    Even the path to getting better itself is rewarding. I don't know if you've played the latest Doom. Similar to driving sims, Doom doesn't hold your hand. It doesn't give you a path to follow. Doom gives you a handgun, throws you in the deep end of Hell and says "sink or swim, bitch". It's a dare. And yeah, you'll get your ass kicked at first. But then you try a different tactic each time, and before you know it you're slaying demons left and right and thinking "Who else wants some?" Duke Nukem style.

    It's not about having patience. Patience is something you do when you're doing something annoying.

    I would concede that Doom has lower difficulties. So as a compromise I would be okay with being able to race Tier 1 at 60 or 70%
    I think that would work, having some level of minimum difficulty but not a crazily high one.
    Maybe start at 0%, and go up 10% per tier (depending on amount of tiers)?

    Keeps both a sense of difficulty and accessibility.

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