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Thread: GRID (2019)

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzah View Post
    Shinzah's post.
    hmpf, I guess I can flex a bit. sorta tired of trolling so imma actually get sorta serious here.


    "Fury is literally a film about tanks. It was filmed using tanks. Actual tanks. In actual reality. This is like saying "Days of Thunder is more accurate than Redline". And to be entirely fair, both Fury and Girls und Panzer are F I C T I O N A L."
    Fury is a film about a tank crew, the film is not about Fury a M4A3E8 Sherman, it's about her crew. my point in using Fury and Girls und Panzer as examples was so you can get a point, but it appears you did not.

    Your point of 'fictional' is simply asinine to be frank, as simply everything in mass media that isn't a documentary or a biography is work of fiction; you created this point about believably in movies totally not understanding what you're talking about and it shows deeply, my good sir, realism and accuracy create believability.

    in order to create a story, a plot or any form of content in fiction your work must first achieve a understandable basis for your viewers, Fury is a fictional story based in an actual time period we faced in humanity; World War 2, it's plot needs to be accurate, realistic, and believable because this is what the film and viewers want portrayed.

    Girls und Panzer is a fictional story in a fictional world within a fictional time-period, however it would be unbelievable if you apply FURY's standard onto it. Fury would be unbelievable if it followed how Girls und Panzer was written but tried to pass itself off as "WW2".


    "We aren't discussing film, we're discussing videogames. Videogames are interactive. Film is not a complex system. You point a camera at something, or you draw something, and you put it all together. It's kind of hard to make tank movement unrealistic when you film an actual tank driving. You can't film a racecar and call it a racing simulator.

    Nice strawmen though. Good attempt. Well done effort. Not even the same thing to the concept of the discussion. Weak opening."
    I was using film and animation as a example, i've already stated this.

    Film is too a complex system, as you cannot just point a camera at something, your shot must show affection, must show meaning. if I made a film using your idea of what film is, oh my god would it bomb. "or you draw something" art is subjective, you must first show an imagination or creativity from your heart in order to achieve greatness in film and art, something you don't have apparently.

    "You can't film a racecar and call it a racing simulator."
    but that's not my point.

    "Nice strawmen though. Good attempt. Well done effort. Not even the same thing to the concept of the discussion. Weak opening."
    oh my good sir, your argument is easy to defeat, it always has been, your only merit is that you make incredibly long comments filled with big worlds and multiple of those same comments to try and brute force your way to shut people up, you are no debater, and most of the time your arguments are incorrect.

    you're the strawman here, not me.

    "You can't have an "Accurate" depiction of Fiction. Accuracy requires measurable data. You get a BELIEVABLE interpretation of how to anime up and fight other vampires. And this is, of course, my entire point - you proved."
    jesus christ. I'm trying so hard to keep it respectful but your post is making it quite hard.
    using the technical definition of accuracy is only for technical terms, we're being general here, please refer to the general understanding of accuracy; which is to be correct or precise.

    and you can have an "Accurate" depiction in works of fiction, saying this you contradict what you said earlier about the M4A3E8 in Fury having accurate movement.

    "You get a BELIEVABLE interpretation of how to anime up and fight other vampires. And this is, of course, my entire point - you proved."
    as I stated before, realistic is the more correct word to use here. as realism in general means to be plausible equaling something I could actually do.

    it is not realistic to anime up and fight vampires, because the content is not portraying itself in such a manner, can it be believable? maybe, but going off definition:
    be∑liev∑a∑ble
    /bəˈlēvəb(ə)l/
    adjective
    (of an account or the person relating it) able to be believed; credible.
    Similar: (of a fictional character or situation) convincing or realistic.

    you're half wrong, half right.

    "I like how you've reversed Accuracy and Realism here. If GRID 2019 ACCURATELY depicted auto-racing, we'd not be having this discussion and everybody can go home. Grid is far, far, more realistic than it is accurate."
    ac∑cu∑ra∑cy
    /ˈakyərəsē/
    noun
    the quality or state of being correct or precise.
    "we have confidence in the accuracy of the statistics"

    re∑al∑ism
    /ˈrē(ə)ˌlizəm/
    noun
    1.
    the attitude or practice of accepting a situation as it is and being prepared to deal with it accordingly.
    "the summit was marked by a new mood of realism"
    2.
    the quality or fact of representing a person, thing, or situation accurately or in a way that is true to life. <--- what I mean't.
    "the earthy realism of Raimu's characters"

    "Accuracy - The measurable quality of how accurate a thing is. We expect racing simulators to be some degree of accurate in many ways. Unfortunately almost all of this "Accuracy" is a lie. Because motorsports is extremely complex and no simulation can hope to achieve this total complexity. You will never have a totally accurate driving simulator. Flying simulator. Freakin' walking in a park simulator. The resolution of the simulation is just as important to the discussion as the simulation itself. "

    "We expect racing simulators to be some degree of accurate in many ways. Unfortunately almost all of this "Accuracy" is a lie. Because motorsports is extremely complex and no simulation can hope to achieve this total complexity. You will never have a totally accurate driving simulator. Flying simulator. Freakin' walking in a park simulator. The resolution of the simulation is just as important to the discussion as the simulation itself. "
    uh you get in a car and race other cars.. that's all motorsports is, the difficulty is accurately taking the feel of a vehicle on condensing it down into a coded format, something we currently do not cost for, we have the smarts and the power to do so, we do not however have the money in order to sit down and perform such a drooling task.

    Digital Combat Simulator is a Public version of a Military Simulator developed by the same studio, it is regarded by everyone to be the most realistic flying sim to date.
    simulations are supposed to give you a imitation, a close enough understanding of a subject so you could get a plausible 3d picture in your head of how that thing works, most of the sims out here do that and they do it well, they was never designed to be accurate, they was designed to be realistic.

    "To demonstrate this - it takes computational fluid dynamics simulations (actual scientific particle simulations used in actual development of actual things) between HOURS and DAYS to depict particle flow with any degree of accuracy at all, and often, CFD is ballpark at best and actually testing a model using a windtunnel in reality yields much more precise data."
    ehhh to me this looks like mumbo jumbo...

    "Dark Souls simulates walking, environmental interaction, fabric, other body movement, pain, weight......"
    yes Dark Souls simulates all of those things but is it a simulation? no it's not, because that's not what the game is designed around.

    the problem here is you're talking about simulation meaning: content wise

    i'm talking about simulation meaning the actual classification of said content, you can call Dark Souls a simulation, but it is not due to one important factor you seem to be forgetting; it not presented as a simulation.

    "Realism - The act of DEPICTING reality in a manner that is accurate and true to life. GRID does this quite well. The race cars look like racecars. The race tracks look like race tracks. The race cars on the race tracks behave in a manner which is easily predicted. That is to say, the cars move in a reasonable enough manner that you'd expect cars to move in. GRID is really quite REALISTIC when taken on the aesthetic interpretation. In terms of rigidity, GRID is still more "Realistic" than it is "Accurate" because it is more precise in its depiction of being "like reality" than it is not, it is however, not physically accurate. Even if you were to defined Realism as being Like Reality, because of the way modern graphics and physics engines work in general, GRID will still be more REALISTIC than it is ACCURATE."
    GRID does depict racing realistically in an graphical sense, i'm talking about the driving and handling of the cars that is not realistic.

    "Accuracy - The measurable quality of the data vs the actual reality of the data. A low level of accuracy means things are quite far from being mathematically correct. No sim is very close to being an accurate depiction of reality because all sims are forced to use a lot of data that is averaged for the sake of complexity. All sims use data that interpreted from incomplete extrapolation. All sims have a low level of accuracy versus reality. "Arcade" games only have slightly less, when it comes to "Arcade" racing games accurately depicting motorsport."
    as I stated above, you're classifying sims totally wrong, as if they are supposed to be perfect recreations of a subject, in which they are not. the goal of a simulation is to warrant a educated guess among people, they use accuracy more than you think to actually create this effect. the goal of sims is to actually make people talk about how realistic they are as this is how developer studios gauge A B C.

    "Believability. The quality of being believed. Or the quality of being convincing and realistic.
    GRID *can* achieve this, because achieving this is a lot easier than people think. It's also why a lot of actual racing drivers consult on games we don't consider "Simulations". But I'm not going to sit here and drill it into your head how, mostly because I think you're trying to punch up and like I said before - I'm not interested in these stupid discussions."
    already refuted this.

    "But I'm not going to sit here and drill it into your head how, mostly because I think you're trying to punch up and like I said before - I'm not interested in these stupid discussions."
    Shinzah, you're not great, and you're not amazing, how do you get upset when people show an elitist attitude about sim racing when you're showing one right now? "Punching Up?" how? are you the big bad on the forum? should I fear you? no Shinzah you're nothing but some ordinary guy on the internet trying to come off as intellectual and smart but ends up showing up on r/Iamverysmart and made fun of because you think debating on a forum about something so minuscule is what get's you far in life, do you think everyone here is below you Shinzah? also you also must be real fun at parties, to be honest, Shinzah you're becoming a blowhard man that's not good.

    and you show an intense amount of interest in dumb discussion considering how you spent a good minute writing all of that.

    "Where believability applies to this discussion is that a "Hardcore racing sim" can be just as realistic, and may be slightly more accurate. But because they achieve realism and accuracy in different ways, with different focuses, it's our perception of what is BELIEVABLE that is how we define them. We bandy about words like "Realism" (Of Reality) and Accuracy (Precise interpretation of defined data) but every game, like I said before, does it differently. Believability is very subjective. It is much more subjective than Realism and Accuracy. Realism MUST BE of or pertaining to that which is REAL. Accuracy MUST BE of or pertaining to that which is PREDEFINED. "
    FINALLY SOMETHING 99% CORRECT.

    "Believability only has to convince you that a situation is plausible. That's it. It has to do nothing else. A racing sim could be held together with duct tape and spit (and many are), but as long as you find it believable, that's all that matters."
    SO believability has to convince me that the situation is realistic? which is what...I said.
    "A racing sim could be held together with duct tape and spit (and many are)"
    considering how even trash racing games have more effort done to them than the effort you put into this comment, I beg to differ.

    "No, I'm a linguist. It's my hobby. I strive to use language as its meant to be used. Not in conflation with other words. English users are especially bad for making up meanings to well defined words and then trying to pass them off as the intended meaning for words."
    so what you're doing multiple times in this comment? Shinzah we get it you're such a big brain that your intellect far surpasses us mere mortals (sarcasm) you're actually pretty average, trust me, people in a War Thunder Youtube comment section put up more of a fight than you do.

    "I have been fortunate enough to have driven cars on race tracks. Let me tell you. When it comes to feeling, a lot of these "Arcade" games nail it. They might not be precise in lap times or handling, but in terms of FEELING, they get it. They understand. Most sims don't. They're boring. And stale. And that again, is why actual drivers tend to consult on "Arcade" games. Because the goal is getting the actual emotional feeling right above anything else."
    what? my mans, unless you're feeling the G's in your at home racing chair I beg to differ in that notion. (sarcasm)

    "That's it. I'm done engaging. This is my opinion. It will not change. I am not interested in debating to change it. I am simply expressing my beliefs. Any further issue with that will be ignored."
    your opinion is wrong tho bro, "Any further issue with that will be ignored." awww backing out the fight already? was I too much of a challenge for you? sad, I was actually giving you a reason to formulate a good response argument. but alas, I was wrong. sad of me to actually think of the sites "#1 Debater" as actually being good at debating.

    wow this... was a book... anyways how'd I do? I think I could've done better. maybe.

    welp i'm done! any further anything about this debate will be ignored.
    Last edited by GTsimms; 30-09-2019 at 03:00.
    you're not supposed to go into the light, you're supposed to drift around it.
    Simulations 7:07
    drivers are not alive, the car is.
    Simulations 7:20

  2. #22
    WMD Member Shinzah's Avatar
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    You know what, I'm going to engage. Not with whatever the hell you just said, but just to remind you of something.

    Quotes. They work. Maybe try them next time. It's okay. I could tell what I said. It was nice and eloquent and beautiful. I just wish you highlighted it better for others so they'd read it, and not...whatever that was.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzah View Post
    You know what, I'm going to engage. Not with whatever the hell you just said, but just to remind you of something.

    Quotes. They work. Maybe try them next time. It's okay. I could tell what I said. It was nice and eloquent and beautiful. I just wish you highlighted it better for others so they'd read it, and not...whatever that was.
    lmao does it seem like I care?

    why should I illuminate trash so people of quality can be disgusted by it?

    also for someone who really into his grammar, it appears you messed up here: "It was nice and eloquent and beautiful." isn't it supposed to be: It was nice, eloquent and beautiful."?
    Last edited by REXPITVIPER1; 29-09-2019 at 11:26.
    you're not supposed to go into the light, you're supposed to drift around it.
    Simulations 7:07
    drivers are not alive, the car is.
    Simulations 7:20

  4. #24
    WMD Member Killso2's Avatar
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    this is going way too far
    It's not a sim and that's it, I bet it's gonna be a fun game and that's all that should matter.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzah View Post
    No, I woke up two hours early for the Formula 1 grand prix because I had to pee. ^^;

    I had time and decided to demonstrate my hobby and my opinion to somebody on the internet. I thought this was how internetting is supposed to work? Am I doing it wrong? o-o



    Anyway. Who is excited about DPI's and also, who is getting the deluxe edition and thinks its worth it?
    Nothing wrong m8. Iím just kidding.
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  6. #26
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    I agree that the random use of words like 'arcade', 'simcade' and 'simulation' has made such discussions meaningless. People blur the lines, where does simcade end, where does a true simulation start? Even if there's a lot going on 'under the hood' it's still a video game and will never be able reproduce real life, but, saying that every racing game is a simulation because it gives you a car that drives on a track and therefore it is a simulation, is nonsense. It still about the depth of simulation and complexity. A game that does not calculate grip levels based on tyre temps, pressures and also track temps is not on the same level as a game that does. Aero, rake, brake temps, air density etc. are important factors in real life, a game that takes these variables into the equation is not on the same level of complexity as a game that doesn't even have different tyre compounds, so a differentiation is legit.
    Does a game have to be a simulation game to be fun? Of course not. I think the car roster Codies have shown so far for Grid is great.
    Last edited by rich1e I; 29-09-2019 at 13:13.
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  7. #27
    Moderator Bealdor's Avatar
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    Let's go back to discussing Grid (2019) the racing game please (no tanks included ).
    Thanks
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bealdor View Post
    Let's go back to discussing Grid (2019) the racing game please (no tanks included ).
    Thanks
    sure, nothing wrong getting a bit off topic about something so idiotically minuscule to the overall meaning of what a 'game' is.

    so has anyone played it yet? if so, how does it play?
    you're not supposed to go into the light, you're supposed to drift around it.
    Simulations 7:07
    drivers are not alive, the car is.
    Simulations 7:20

  9. #29
    GT3 Pilot dault3883's Avatar
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    i could honestly careless if its simulation simcade or what ever i love racing games of all types now yes certain games like project cars i want to stay simulation but not every one wants simulation so not ALL racing games need to be simulation codemasters games are generally geared towards the masses not the simulation crowd because codemasters wants to sell as many copies as they can
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinzah View Post
    who is getting the deluxe edition and thinks its worth it?
    I am getting it, but I do not think it's worth it
    (for my personal preferences I mean)

    It's just that GAS (and a little bit of Grid 2) was the first modern game I've played, and played it for long (700 hours), it was very nice and the first step into later making it to the sim genre where I now feel at home, so I felt I wanted to say at least a thank you for that to the devs by preordering the ultimate edition. (will obviously do that for PCARS3 as well, no matter if it will be good or not).

    I do not care much if I will enjoy driving Grid 2019 or not, but in case I will, this is added bonus!
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