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Thread: This is what I call AI

  1. #1
    Superkart Pilot PawelK's Avatar
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    This is what I call AI

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  2. #2
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    That is what I call a full-retard AI.

    After many passes of successful and failed attempts it has learned the track boundaries, but if you add one human player to the track and he is in the way... BAM!!! He will drive right into you.
    Next round he will avoid the line where he was when he hit you, and if you as a human drive somewhere else he will hit you again in that other spot.
    Now if you keep repeating that with a human player in the mix the AI will drive irratically until eventually in one round it refuses to move as it is too afraid it will hit something again.

    This AI doesn't have any awareness of the player being there, his distance to the player or what the projected driving line of a player is.

    So yeah, it might be a super human hotlap but it can't handle mixed environmental circumstances. So in my opinion it is a very stupid AI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    That is what I call a full-retard AI.

    After many passes of successful and failed attempts it has learned the track boundaries, but if you add one human player to the track and he is in the way... BAM!!! He will drive right into you.
    Next round he will avoid the line where he was when he hit you, and if you as a human drive somewhere else he will hit you again in that other spot.
    Now if you keep repeating that with a human player in the mix the AI will drive irratically until eventually in one round it refuses to move as it is too afraid it will hit something again.

    This AI doesn't have any awareness of the player being there, his distance to the player or what the projected driving line of a player is.

    So yeah, it might be a super human hotlap but it can't handle mixed environmental circumstances. So in my opinion it is a very stupid AI.
    How do you know it doesn't have avoidance built in? I didn't watch yet so curious.

  4. #4
    Superkart Pilot PawelK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christiaan van Beilen View Post
    That is what I call a full-retard AI.

    After many passes of successful and failed attempts it has learned the track boundaries, but if you add one human player to the track and he is in the way... BAM!!! He will drive right into you.
    Next round he will avoid the line where he was when he hit you, and if you as a human drive somewhere else he will hit you again in that other spot.
    Now if you keep repeating that with a human player in the mix the AI will drive irratically until eventually in one round it refuses to move as it is too afraid it will hit something again.

    This AI doesn't have any awareness of the player being there, his distance to the player or what the projected driving line of a player is.

    So yeah, it might be a super human hotlap but it can't handle mixed environmental circumstances. So in my opinion it is a very stupid AI.

    Frankly I don't even know if GTS has any dynamic features like tire heating, or fuel depletion affecting weight, and whether this AI can take this into account. It's not even clear of the model receives FFB feedback or is it all visual. But you are of course right that fighting other people will change much more. I wasn't really serious when expressing awe in the thread title :-)
    Last edited by PawelK; 20-09-2020 at 05:11.
    Frenzy Conducive "Benzine Wagons" Being "Tuned-Up" By Mechanicians

    A few simracing videos
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  5. #5
    WMD Member John Hargreaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PawelK View Post
    I wasn't really serious when expressing awe in the thread title :-)
    That came across OK, I think AI is one of the areas with most to gain from the tech that's out there, it rarely warrants the same dev time as physics and graphics
    Last edited by John Hargreaves; 20-09-2020 at 07:11.
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    GT5 Pilot rich1e I's Avatar
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    The thing with machine learning is that it doesn't need to have avoidance built in. It just learns with every lap, and after thousands or hundreds of thousands of laps it gets to super human level in every aspect. That's how Deep Mind's AlphaGo beat Lee Sedol 4:1 and that's how AlphaZero beat AlphaGo 100:0. AlphaGo was fed with tons of data, AlphaZero learned everything from scratch. It didn't even know the rules at the beginning. Scary stuff.
    Last edited by rich1e I; 20-09-2020 at 15:30.

  7. #7
    WMD Member John Hargreaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1e I View Post
    Scary stuff.


    Won't be long now.
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  8. #8
    Superkart Pilot PawelK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rich1e I View Post
    The thing with machine learning is that it doesn't need to have avoidance built in.
    But needs the means to read the existence and position of other cars. It's not magic, it's basically just a bunch of correlations. If it is not feed some types of information, it won't act on it. We don't even know if it uses FFB inputs and is capable of learning about changing track or tire conditions from what happens in one corner and apply it to the next corner.

    The next level, which I am very sure it does not have, is understanding intentions and psychology of the other driver, making them think you do something, having them respond to that prediction, and you doing something else. Things like that are also a part of racecraft.
    Frenzy Conducive "Benzine Wagons" Being "Tuned-Up" By Mechanicians

    A few simracing videos

  9. #9
    WMD Member MaximusN's Avatar
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    They dry-ran self-driving car AI using GTA V. Of course it can do more than only learn how to drive only a track over and over in hotlap mode(aka hamster wheel driving). If this weren't viable we can forget about self-driving cars because a digital world is a whole lot less dynamic than the real world. It would of course help if the game AI had at least stereoscopic vision. During the time 3DVision(RIP ) was still a thing it helped me judge corners and car distances better too. So I'm glad VR came along so it's back(from outerspace ). But I must confess I find VR more of a hassle(although more immersive) than good old stereoscopic 3D.
    Last edited by MaximusN; 21-09-2020 at 07:36.
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  10. #10
    GT5 Pilot rich1e I's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PawelK View Post
    But needs the means to read the existence and position of other cars. It's not magic, it's basically just a bunch of correlations. If it is not feed some types of information, it won't act on it. We don't even know if it uses FFB inputs and is capable of learning about changing track or tire conditions from what happens in one corner and apply it to the next corner.

    The next level, which I am very sure it does not have, is understanding intentions and psychology of the other driver, making them think you do something, having them respond to that prediction, and you doing something else. Things like that are also a part of racecraft.
    I think you're underestimating the power of self-learning systems. That video is just a demonstration of their work on AI. They picked one domain and showed their product can reach super human level. If they let their AI train with other cars on track, it'll figure out the fastest lines and moves around a track, and our stupid tricks as well. Digital systems are much faster than our chimp brains, they could do in 1 day the same work worth 1 human year. Whether such a system will be implemented in a game is another question. Probably not, but if DeepMind let AlphaZero train with GTS, it'd take a very short period of time until it gets unbeatable on track, with or without other cars, no doubt.
    Last edited by rich1e I; 21-09-2020 at 18:51.
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