View Full Version : Lets talk FFB PC, PS4, XBox1
http://www.isrtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/IMG-20160519-WA0013.jpg
from the Back it looks like its a DD wheel to me... The 4 pin hole on the right thats above the fire wire port looks to be the power supply plugs in because TM has No shifters/hand Brakes etc with that type of plug.
Or is that the plug that goes to a control box? I cant think of a reason to have a 4 pin power supply plug.
tennenbaum
20-05-2016, 20:03
I never have gotten Land Mines on Watkins and i test there often
you live there. lol
GrimeyDog
20-05-2016, 20:10
Or is that the plug that goes to a control box? I cant think of a reason to have a 4 pin power supply plug.
The DD wheels have Big 4 pin plugs for the power supply... im looking for a pic... but if you watch the video reviews you will see it
The DD wheels have Big 4 pin plugs for the power supply... im looking for a pic... but if you watch the video reviews you will see it
Because it comes from the control box first. Same idea different thought.lol
Don't TM bases already have a four pin power plug? Different shape, but four pins.
Also, aren't the pins usually inside the unit on power ports? Otherwise, you'd have a bunch of people winning Darwin awards. If the pins are on the corded end, it would be live and dangerous once plugged in. I'm pretty sure that's why they make them the other way around. :) It would have to be protected/sheathed if that's the power port.
Ediy: It does look like whatever goes into there is sheathed, though, so I guess it could be a power port.
The DD wheels have Big 4 pin plugs for the power supply... im looking for a pic... but if you watch the video reviews you will see it
The video also shows the same wheel mounting so should be changeable. Everyone seems to think its dd.:D
GrimeyDog
21-05-2016, 02:53
Formula A, Super kart and Ford Mustang GT at Donington Park All cars Can Use the same in Car FFB Settings and Each car remains with its own Handling characteristics as you can see in the FFB Graph.
https://youtu.be/JejiwYGLeUY
Lotus T98, Mitsubishi Evo VI, Ford Focus RS
https://youtu.be/kt-Nf6_s8_8
TF/RAC75 the One FFB To Rule them ALL tweek... just made a 1 lap video collage of cars that are total opposite and all Run and handle well with the same tweek in car settings but each car reamains with its own driving/bump feel Curbs etc, and handling characteristics the FFB Graph and feel are Very different with each car even though they all share the same in Car settings.... except FWD cars i set ONLY the SoP lat to 0 everything else is the same:yes:
Hi Skoader,
great to hear from you. I was always interested in your settings, which are indeed unique. (Such a pity i can't try them these days...) Possibly you're bringing a whole new approach to the table - putting Softclipper back into the light, since it never got really popular due to its complexity. (bmanic, beside you, is one of the few who really utilizes SC. But he does it totally different than you do. BTW: here in Germany your video gets blocked on youtube due to music copyright issues. Is your video also available without music? Or on an FTL download link. I'm curious to see the telemetry...
Sorry about that tennenbaum. I knew nothing of the whole youtube/GEMA debacle until I uploaded this. I've uploaded another version without the music here.
https://youtu.be/5z0hToEIQSM
The video also shows the same wheel mounting so should be changeable. Everyone seems to think its dd.:D
If it is, that would be great. I just hope the rims interchangeable. If not...dilemma. :confused:
I wish there was a place where you could actually try the wheels before making a purchase.
If it is, that would be great. I just hope the rims interchangeable. If not...dilemma. :confused:
I wish there was a place where you could actually try the wheels before making a purchase.
I cant believe with their ecosystem thought they would change now. At least I hope not. Yes being able to try them would be great. I learned a few things last night.:D I did finally get it working again after doing the rebuild again. Everything seems ok so far except for one grinding episode. I was playing around with the fcm last night and turned off the spring settings in the pc window. Hopefully poirqc or skoader will see this and shed some light on that. Which was nice because the test ran without having to touch the wheel. It gave different numbers for scoop values and made a very linear graph. But numbers I would have never come up with on my own. SR was a lot higher. So I figured lets try it and see how it feels. One thing I noticed with sr last night is it can cause ffb issues that aren't really there. Usually the rumble strips between the last two corners at the glen would spin the car right out if i touched them. Not with the scoops set this way. It seems you have to be careful reducing sr as you can over exaggerate some of the forces that should be small without realizing it. I need to run it a little more but it felt pretty good and very promising.
I cant believe with their ecosystem thought they would change now. At least I hope not. Yes being able to try them would be great. I learned a few things last night.:D I did finally get it working again after doing the rebuild again. Everything seems ok so far except for one grinding episode. I was playing around with the fcm last night and turned off the spring settings in the pc window. Hopefully poirqc or skoader will see this and shed some light on that. Which was nice because the test ran without having to touch the wheel. It gave different numbers for scoop values and made a very linear graph. But numbers I would have never come up with on my own. SR was a lot higher. So I figured lets try it and see how it feels. One thing I noticed with sr last night is it can cause ffb issues that aren't really there. Usually the rumble strips between the last two corners at the glen would spin the car right out if i touched them. Not with the scoops set this way. It seems you have to be careful reducing sr as you can over exaggerate some of the forces that should be small without realizing it. I need to run it a little more but it felt pretty good and very promising.
IDK, the last couple wheels they put out were fixed. But they did start selling bases without rims, so who knows. I'm surprised they haven't come out with any new rims, though.
What do mean didn't have to touch the wheel? Do you normally have to touch it? I didn't. Is the T300 different?
I agree about the low SR values. You can make your wheel exaggerate curbs and bumps and lose slip feel.
IDK, the last couple wheels they put out were fixed. But they did start selling bases without rims, so who knows. I'm surprised they haven't come out with any new rims, though.
What do mean didn't have to touch the wheel? Do you normally have to touch it? I didn't. Is the T300 different?
I agree about the low SR values. You can make your wheel exaggerate curbs and bumps and lose slip feel.
Yes I always have had to touch the wheel. Not push it to get it moving but touch it then it would continue testing. I always thought that was weird. I tried it set on 900 and 1080 and it always did it but not with the spring settings turned off. I don't know what made me think of it but I just figured I try it and see what happened. I'm thinking its because you have to use the ps3 mode for pc to test it and if I'm not mistaken the pc guys turn the spring settings off. Similar to the problem we had with the game turning it on when it shouldn't. Hopefully poirqc or skoader will answer this because ive never seen it mentioned for the consoles but it makes sense now that I think about it.
gotdirt410sprintcar
21-05-2016, 17:43
What scoops you running now morpwr? I don't get on much during the week but last weekend I was messing with it so I will resume today. I have mine 77 24 not much from what you where using before thanks
spacepadrille
21-05-2016, 17:56
What scoops you running now morpwr? I don't get on much during the week but last weekend I was messing with it so I will resume today. I have mine 77 24 not much from what you where using before thanks
Exactly same question here :-)
What scoops you running now morpwr? I don't get on much during the week but last weekend I was messing with it so I will resume today. I have mine 77 24 not much from what you where using before thanks
FCM gave me sk 81 sr 48 yes 48 that wasn't a misprint.lol That was with the spring settings turned off,default 75ffb and set at 1080 on the profiler page for the wheel. Its almost perfectly linear with those settings. I dropped to 46 for sr and had to bump the ffb up a couple to compensate for the weight loss from raising sr so much . The wheel feels smoother with these settings and grip loss/brake feel is obvious with these. I can turn good times with these but It will definitiely take a little time to adjust to the difference in feel. I think I'm going to give them a try for a couple of days and see how they work out.
gotdirt410sprintcar
21-05-2016, 18:21
Thanks I will give them a try T500 AND T300 should be close might have to adjust them from there. but I do need to run the test to get it closer probably
Thanks I will give them a try T500 AND T300 should be close might have to adjust them from there. but I do need to run the test to get it closer probably
If youre going to run the test go into the gain settings and turn off spring and damper in the profiler page for your wheel. Set the ffb you run there also. I think we have been doing this wrong all along. I just ran 3 tests ffb 75 sr 48 sk 81 , ffb 70 sr 45 sk 80 ,ffb68 sr 41 sk 80 and drr 12 for all. Has anyone else been turning that off before when running the test?
Skoader,poirqc,tennebaum,
Can one of you answer if this is correct? We need to go in and shut off the spring and damper in the pc profiler page when running the fcm test. I'm pretty sure at this point we do or it doesn't work right.
spacepadrille
21-05-2016, 18:52
FCM gave me sk 81 sr 48 yes 48 that wasn't a misprint.lol That was with the spring settings turned off,default 75ffb and set at 1080 on the profiler page for the wheel. Its almost perfectly linear with those settings. I dropped to 46 for sr and had to bump the ffb up a couple to compensate for the weight loss from raising sr so much . The wheel feels smoother with these settings and grip loss/brake feel is obvious with these. I can turn good times with these but It will definitiely take a little time to adjust to the difference in feel. I think I'm going to give them a try for a couple of days and see how they work out.
I gonna do the same, try it for some days. I remember when I was messing with FFB (patch 6-7-8), and wanted to keep 100 FF, I tried a big SR like 0.50, and found it was interesting. After that, I forgot and came back to more usual values.
So there is this, and Skoader's settings with the V8 and soft clip to test. Who said the unicorn chasing was over ? :-)
spacepadrille
21-05-2016, 18:54
FCM gave me sk 81 sr 48 yes 48 that wasn't a misprint.lol That was with the spring settings turned off,default 75ffb and set at 1080 on the profiler page for the wheel. Its almost perfectly linear with those settings. I dropped to 46 for sr and had to bump the ffb up a couple to compensate for the weight loss from raising sr so much . The wheel feels smoother with these settings and grip loss/brake feel is obvious with these. I can turn good times with these but It will definitiely take a little time to adjust to the difference in feel. I think I'm going to give them a try for a couple of days and see how they work out.
I gonna do the same, try it for some days. I remember when I was messing with FFB (patch 6-7-8), and wanted to keep 100 FF, I tried a big SR like 0.50, and found it was interesting. After that, I forgot and came back to more usual values.
So there is this, and Skoader's settings with the V8 and soft clip to test. Who said the unicorn chasing was over ? :-)
Edit : Everyone said that at least once...
I gonna do the same, try it for some days. I remember when I was messing with FFB (patch 6-7-8), and wanted to keep 100 FF, I tried a big SR like 0.50, and found it was interesting. After that, I forgot and came back to more usual values.
So there is this, and Skoader's settings with the V8 and soft clip to test. Who said the unicorn chasing was over ? :-)
Edit : Everyone said that at least once...
The problem like in this case nobody was really sure how it worked with consoles. Plus until you figure out the force youre feeling is the result of something set wrong how would you know whats right or wrong. lol Have you turned those off when using the fcm before?
I cant believe with their ecosystem thought they would change now. At least I hope not. Yes being able to try them would be great. I learned a few things last night.:D I did finally get it working again after doing the rebuild again. Everything seems ok so far except for one grinding episode. I was playing around with the fcm last night and turned off the spring settings in the pc window. Hopefully poirqc or skoader will see this and shed some light on that. Which was nice because the test ran without having to touch the wheel. It gave different numbers for scoop values and made a very linear graph. But numbers I would have never come up with on my own. SR was a lot higher. So I figured lets try it and see how it feels. One thing I noticed with sr last night is it can cause ffb issues that aren't really there. Usually the rumble strips between the last two corners at the glen would spin the car right out if i touched them. Not with the scoops set this way. It seems you have to be careful reducing sr as you can over exaggerate some of the forces that should be small without realizing it. I need to run it a little more but it felt pretty good and very promising.
IDK, the last couple wheels they put out were fixed. But they did start selling bases without rims, so who knows. I'm surprised they haven't come out with any new rims, though.
What do mean didn't have to touch the wheel? Do you normally have to touch it? I didn't. Is the T300 different?
I agree about the low SR values. You can make your wheel exaggerate curbs and bumps and lose slip feel.
Yes I always have had to touch the wheel. Not push it to get it moving but touch it then it would continue testing. I always thought that was weird. I tried it set on 900 and 1080 and it always did it but not with the spring settings turned off. I don't know what made me think of it but I just figured I try it and see what happened. I'm thinking its because you have to use the ps3 mode for pc to test it and if I'm not mistaken the pc guys turn the spring settings off. Similar to the problem we had with the game turning it on when it shouldn't. Hopefully poirqc or skoader will answer this because ive never seen it mentioned for the consoles but it makes sense now that I think about it.
FCM gave me sk 81 sr 48 yes 48 that wasn't a misprint.lol That was with the spring settings turned off,default 75ffb and set at 1080 on the profiler page for the wheel. Its almost perfectly linear with those settings. I dropped to 46 for sr and had to bump the ffb up a couple to compensate for the weight loss from raising sr so much . The wheel feels smoother with these settings and grip loss/brake feel is obvious with these. I can turn good times with these but It will definitiely take a little time to adjust to the difference in feel. I think I'm going to give them a try for a couple of days and see how they work out.
Skoader,poirqc,tennebaum,
Can one of you answer if this is correct? We need to go in and shut off the spring and damper in the pc profiler page when running the fcm test. I'm pretty sure at this point we do or it doesn't work right.
The problem like in this case nobody was really sure how it worked with consoles. Plus until you figure out the force youre feeling is the result of something set wrong how would you know whats right or wrong. lol Have you turned those off when using the fcm before?
There's couple things going on here.
It seems that for almost every wheel, lowering the "gain" at the driver level give a more linear output, while lowering the actual max output.(There's couple posts about that in the baseline thread / google)
I don't have a T300, i can't say how people run it on windows. Another thing we don't know is how the drivers precisely works on the PS4. Does it default to the same one of windows or to something else? Does the PS4 as a specific set of Constant, Spring and Dampers? We will probably never know. On the PC, using FCM is easy because you just run it with the same settings(Drivers) you have when running pCars. On the console, it's probably more about getting an idea of your wheel natural output. After that, being able to visually see what Scoops and Soft clipping do, you can use them easily without having access to the precise wheel data.
From my understanding, the force feedback test FCM / wheelcheck should run automatically, regardless of the windowns control panel settings. Having different settings should give different outputs, not prevent the tests from running.
Consumer wheels tend to wash out near max torque output. The more it does so(G27), the more Scoops may be needed. On a Stronger wheel(T300), where you have enough torque delta to play with, and where the wheel doesn't wash out as much, Scoops are probably less needed.
FCM will try to matematically reach linearity. It doesn't mean it'll give you a better ramp up of forces right away. The best way to see it is to disable it all together. If you're still able to feel understeering quite wheel, the wheel natural output is already good.
On a side note morpwr, you got me thinking about Deadzone Removals. I thought it needed some rewriting. In the baseline thread, it was the first tool i talked about, so it's been a while since i talked about it. I went playing again with it. I liked my FFB, but i tought the wheel weight was a tad low, around TDC on some cars.
When running globals where the forces ramp up quickly, it makes senses to have a "higher" DRF. It prevent DRR from knocking too fast.
When using a Scoops heavy template, it's good to have a "lower" DRF. The FFB signal ramp up faster, so you feel the tire load faster.
There's couple things going on here.
It seems that for almost every wheel, lowering the "gain" at the driver level give a more linear output, while lowering the actual max output.(There's couple posts about that in the baseline thread / google)
I don't have a T300, i can't say how people run it on windows. Another thing we don't know is how the drivers precisely works on the PS4. Does it default to the same one of windows or to something else? Does the PS4 as a specific set of Constant, Spring and Dampers? We will probably never know. On the PC, using FCM is easy because you just run it with the same settings(Drivers) you have when running pCars. On the console, it's probably more about getting an idea of your wheel natural output. After that, being able to visually see what Scoops and Soft clipping do, you can use them easily without having access to the precise wheel data.
From my understanding, the force feedback test FCM / wheelcheck should run automatically, regardless of the windowns control panel settings. Having different settings should give different outputs, not prevent the tests from running.
Consumer wheels tend to wash out near max torque output. The more it does so(G27), the more Scoops may be needed. On a Stronger wheel(T300), where you have enough torque delta to play with, and where the wheel doesn't wash out as much, Scoops are probably less needed.
FCM will try to matematically reach linearity. It doesn't mean it'll give you a better ramp up of forces right away. The best way to see it is to disable it all together. If you're still able to feel understeering quite wheel, the wheel natural output is already good.
On a side note morpwr, you got me thinking about Deadzone Removals. I thought it needed some rewriting. In the baseline thread, it was the first tool i talked about, so it's been a while since i talked about it. I went playing again with it. I liked my FFB, but i tought the wheel weight was a tad low, around TDC on some cars.
When running globals where the forces ramp up quickly, it makes senses to have a "higher" DRF. It prevent DRR from knocking too fast.
When using a Scoops heavy template, it's good to have a lower DRF. The forces ramp up faster, so you feel the tire load faster.
Ok then heres what I know for sure. If you don't disable spring and damper in the profiler window the wheel only turns to the left which now I assume is not correct. It should turn left and right? So am I correct on pc you turn spring and damper off so you don't get the centering spring effect? I thought I had read on here you don't use those at all on pc in most cases.
Right this moment it's hard to describe my sense of disgust and how upset I am with this damn game. In part, ok a lot of it really is GrimeyDog's fault but lots of others are involved too but I'll stick with Grimey for the moment, his ffb method led me to a fair amount, ok maybe hundreds of hours, of testing and trying different settings and such.
Many a time I had those omg it's working moments and thinking how amazing the game feels with good ffb but later to come back and have it actually be not so great after all, just could not figure that bit out really. Ok but then the other day it really finally did happen, changed a few settings and for the first time felt honest to god ffb. It really is like eating plain French fries ur whole life but never knowing that salt and ketchup existed and then that day comes where you discover how it's supposed to be, well feeling the ffb was kinda like that.
And now today I fired up the game and the ffb is back to the "no salt" flavor?? I don't get that bit at all. I have seen it mentioned that many of you delete and reinstall when there are updates, so my question is is this a common kind of occurance and I've just missed those references in the comment section?
Now that I've felt for real ffb I'm not going to do without and be content about the whole thing, am I nuts or have others noticed that from day to day the game can have a totally different feel to it?
Right this moment it's hard to describe my sense of disgust and how upset I am with this damn game. In part, ok a lot of it really is GrimeyDog's fault but lots of others are involved too but I'll stick with Grimey for the moment, his ffb method led me to a fair amount, ok maybe hundreds of hours, of testing and trying different settings and such.
Many a time I had those omg it's working moments and thinking how amazing the game feels with good ffb but later to come back and have it actually be not so great after all, just could not figure that bit out really. Ok but then the other day it really finally did happen, changed a few settings and for the first time felt honest to god ffb. It really is like eating plain French fries ur whole life but never knowing that salt and ketchup existed and then that day comes where you discover how it's supposed to be, well feeling the ffb was kinda like that.
And now today I fired up the game and the ffb is back to the "no salt" flavor?? I don't get that bit at all. I have seen it mentioned that many of you delete and reinstall when there are updates, so my question is is this a common kind of occurance and I've just missed those references in the comment section?
Now that I've felt for real ffb I'm not going to do without and be content about the whole thing, am I nuts or have others noticed that from day to day the game can have a totally different feel to it?
It's hard to judge FFB from day to day. Your FFB can start to feel ho-hum as you settle into it, because you're getting used to it. Kind of like in RL how driving your own car can be a mundane experience, because you're so used to the feel of it. Then you drive a friends car and the grass seems greener. That said, sometimes the FFB does load wrong. But in my experience that doesn't last all session. If you return to the pits and head out again, it usually corrects itself. Although, I've never had that kind of bad FFB load feel good.
I have experienced ghost FFB, though. Once, I made adjustments in the globals, went back into the session and it was awesome. I joyfully drive the crap out of it for about an hour, then decided it was time to write it down, since everything felt perfect. I backed out and went into the globals and copied the settings. When I started up a new session, the great feeling FFB was gone. :( That only happened to me once, though.
Right this moment it's hard to describe my sense of disgust and how upset I am with this damn game. In part, ok a lot of it really is GrimeyDog's fault but lots of others are involved too but I'll stick with Grimey for the moment, his ffb method led me to a fair amount, ok maybe hundreds of hours, of testing and trying different settings and such.
Many a time I had those omg it's working moments and thinking how amazing the game feels with good ffb but later to come back and have it actually be not so great after all, just could not figure that bit out really. Ok but then the other day it really finally did happen, changed a few settings and for the first time felt honest to god ffb. It really is like eating plain French fries ur whole life but never knowing that salt and ketchup existed and then that day comes where you discover how it's supposed to be, well feeling the ffb was kinda like that.
And now today I fired up the game and the ffb is back to the "no salt" flavor?? I don't get that bit at all. I have seen it mentioned that many of you delete and reinstall when there are updates, so my question is is this a common kind of occurance and I've just missed those references in the comment section?
Now that I've felt for real ffb I'm not going to do without and be content about the whole thing, am I nuts or have others noticed that from day to day the game can have a totally different feel to it?
Unfortunately yes it does happen. I think a lot of it has to do with the constant tweaking and then something not being saved right. Id write down the numbers you liked just in case and try restting the globals first it did help mine. If that doesn't work trt a rebuild database on the ps4. If nothing straightens it out youll have to reinstall it after deleting everything for it.
GrimeyDog
21-05-2016, 23:29
Right this moment it's hard to describe my sense of disgust and how upset I am with this damn game. In part, ok a lot of it really is GrimeyDog's fault but lots of others are involved too but I'll stick with Grimey for the moment, his ffb method led me to a fair amount, ok maybe hundreds of hours, of testing and trying different settings and such.
Many a time I had those omg it's working moments and thinking how amazing the game feels with good ffb but later to come back and have it actually be not so great after all, just could not figure that bit out really. Ok but then the other day it really finally did happen, changed a few settings and for the first time felt honest to god ffb. It really is like eating plain French fries ur whole life but never knowing that salt and ketchup existed and then that day comes where you discover how it's supposed to be, well feeling the ffb was kinda like that.
And now today I fired up the game and the ffb is back to the "no salt" flavor?? I don't get that bit at all. I have seen it mentioned that many of you delete and reinstall when there are updates, so my question is is this a common kind of occurance and I've just missed those references in the comment section?
Now that I've felt for real ffb I'm not going to do without and be content about the whole thing, am I nuts or have others noticed that from day to day the game can have a totally different feel to it?
What happened to you FFB??? you have to be more Clear and detailed about whats going on with it...any electrical device can suffer a malfunction and need to be reset... just today my clothes Dryer would not work until i flipped the circuit breaker off then on to recycle and reset it... with that said maybe you just need to reset your system and so a fresh install???... The FFB will come back to straight its happened to me a few times.... a data base rebuild or Fresh install solves the problem... also don't forget to power off your wheel power supply and unplug it from your system too... its also a electrical device and can be frozen/Locked with corrupt data.
Also make sure you check your Global settings some times things change for No reason at all or you make a mistake and push the reset button and don't realize it.... that has happened to me a few times..... Make sure you go through and over all your settings.
So far I'm really happy figuring this out. Took a little adjusting to the feel but much easier to drive especially side by side I can tell exactly whats going on. If I hit a car either I just screwed up or the ai hacked me. 4 20 lap races with totally different cars everything from the 49c to the rocket bunny and 2 firsts and a 7 and 8th. Only finished that far back because I got caught in traffic. Was setting the pace on both races by a second or more if I had more time I would have won those too. 21 cars in the races set at 80ai. The 49c race at Monza was fun!!!! Rumble strips don't totally upset the cars anymore and the brake feel is really good.:D Its a different feel from what I was used to running but I think its along the lines of haidens less is more and to me feels much more realistic. I wish I would have had thought about the spring settings along time ago.
As always you guys are on top of it all, I deleted and just finished a fresh install, looks like the settings all stayed as I left them but that's prob from using the online save feature.
I never noticed the difference the game could have from a startup to startup basis and that makes no sense to me, I got two days of ffb that felt like I had a car on rails, felt the front end as it lost grip, felt the rear, now that I've had my first real taste of what my $400 plus wheel can actually deliver I really would like to get it back.
Ok I'm gonna jump back in and see if I can figure out what's what.
I'm pretty certain it wasn't just an amazing tune I did or something because once I hit the sweet spot on the ffb setting I drove a dozen different cars, with and without tuning, and the ffb was just spot on, that's mostly the reason I'm so upset with the whole thing. It was great then it was crap again and the only thing different is putting the ps4 to sleep and starting it up again.
As always you guys are on top of it all, I deleted and just finished a fresh install, looks like the settings all stayed as I left them but that's prob from using the online save feature.
I never noticed the difference the game could have from a startup to startup basis and that makes no sense to me, I got two days of ffb that felt like I had a car on rails, felt the front end as it lost grip, felt the rear, now that I've had my first real taste of what my $400 plus wheel can actually deliver I really would like to get it back.
Ok I'm gonna jump back in and see if I can figure out what's what.
I'm pretty certain it wasn't just an amazing tune I did or something because once I hit the sweet spot on the ffb setting I drove a dozen different cars, with and without tuning, and the ffb was just spot on, that's mostly the reason I'm so upset with the whole thing. It was great then it was crap again and the only thing different is putting the ps4 to sleep and starting it up again.
Do you use the standby mode? That could be the problem thrustmaster has a tip on their site not to use it with their wheels. You have to actually turn the ps4 off every time. Just so you know for the future the online saved data needs to be deleted sometimes too. If the saved data in the game is corrupted so is the online data most likely.
Just a quick note/question on the settings, who and why came up with the much higher DRR and DRF settings? I think that was primarily the setting change that finally gave my wheel some life.
I was def at much lower settings than the 6/18 numbers being used now, clearly I missed something important in the discussions.
Yes I saw they recommend not letting the game stay in memory for sleep mode so I did take pcars out of that.
Just a quick note/question on the settings, who and why came up with the much higher DRR and DRF settings? I think that was primarily the setting change that finally gave my wheel some life.
I was def at much lower settings than the 6/18 numbers being used now, clearly I missed something important in the discussions.
You can go higher than that probably. I think I'm at 8 or 10 now. 12 was too much. You may want to try lowering the drf too. Youll have to try it and see. I can check were I ended up tomorrow.
Just a quick note/question on the settings, who and why came up with the much higher DRR and DRF settings? I think that was primarily the setting change that finally gave my wheel some life.
I was def at much lower settings than the 6/18 numbers being used now, clearly I missed something important in the discussions.
Its easy to do in here. Especially lately it seems like we are getting the final pieces together finally.
You can go higher than that probably. I think I'm at 8 or 10 now. 12 was too much.
Ok thanks, I think that's really what helped the settings the most in terms of feeling. But at this point I just don't have any clue.
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 01:22
As always you guys are on top of it all, I deleted and just finished a fresh install, looks like the settings all stayed as I left them but that's prob from using the online save feature.
I never noticed the difference the game could have from a startup to startup basis and that makes no sense to me, I got two days of ffb that felt like I had a car on rails, felt the front end as it lost grip, felt the rear, now that I've had my first real taste of what my $400 plus wheel can actually deliver I really would like to get it back.
Ok I'm gonna jump back in and see if I can figure out what's what.
I'm pretty certain it wasn't just an amazing tune I did or something because once I hit the sweet spot on the ffb setting I drove a dozen different cars, with and without tuning, and the ffb was just spot on, that's mostly the reason I'm so upset with the whole thing. It was great then it was crap again and the only thing different is putting the ps4 to sleep and starting it up again.
I Always Turn the System Off... You should Never Let it Sleep on wake up it some times Corrupts pcars Date... there was a thread about that a few months back... Let it start up Fresh every time you dont lose any data and it only takes a couple of secs More.
I would Reset the contoler profile and program in all thr Global Settings again you should be fine.
What Tweek are you using??? If its Mine make sure youare on the Latest 1... New PDF on Front page
TF 75 RAC 75 V3
Well again a huge thanks to the four or five of you that have made this game a lot more than just a game for a lot of folks, my french fry/ salt analogy is really a spot on thing by way of comparison IMO.
It would be nice if we could use sleep for doing endurance races.
gotdirt410sprintcar
22-05-2016, 01:30
I'm running drr 01 drf 10 clicks but haven't got that far yet I like the scoop settings though spending time with it to see. And playing with linkage stiff damping. 1.50 stiff .50 damping.
But does the linkage scale at .0 is the hole thing off or just the scaling part.
I Always Turn the System Off... You should Never Let it Sleep on wake up it some times Corrupts pcars Date... there was a thread about that a few months back... Let it start up Fresh every time you dont lose aby data and it only takes a couple of secs More.
I would Reset the contoler profile and prigram in all thr Global Settings again you should be fine.
What Tweek are you using??? If its Mine make sure youare on the Latest 1... New PDF on Front page
TF 75 RAC 75 V3
I had just started using the TF=RAC and then hit the settings that brought the rest of it alive, as I mentioned above I think it's the DRR/DRF changes but I hope to know shortly.
I'm running drr 01 drf 10 clicks but haven't got that far yet I like the scoop settings though spending time with it to see. And playing with linkage stiff damping. 1.50 stiff .50 damping.
But does the linkage scale at .0 is the hole thing off or just the scaling part.
So you ran the test with the new scoops? Yes o turns it off.
gotdirt410sprintcar
22-05-2016, 01:35
It would be nice if we could use sleep for doing endurance races.
I thought you could stop in game and start back up where you stopped or paused the game they said ps4 was going to do that
No just tried your scoops I like it but I will is it easy to do
I thought you could stop in game and start back up where you stopped or paused the game they said ps4 was going to do that
I'm pretty sure you cant but I could be wrong. I saw your request too but I was in the middle of testing.lol Ill get you tomorrow.
I thought you could stop in game and start back up where you stopped or paused the game they said ps4 was going to do that
No just tried your scoops I like it but I will is it easy to do
Yes you just need to go into the thrustmaster control panel and turn them off(spring and damper) its under the gain settings. If you don't already have it you can get it off their site. Make sure the dor matches what youre using too. Then just use the fcm. Make sure the dor is set to what you use there too. Just hit the button to run the test and that's it. I think there is a link in poirqcs signature for the fcm.
Spring Effects:
In game, the only place spring effects are used as far as I know is the menu spring, low speed spring and the soft locks. Aside from the soft locks, these obviously don't come into play during normal driving. SMS have given us almost complete control over these effects anyhow - Between the coefficent, saturation and force feedback settings they've all but exposed the programming interface directly to us.
Driver/Profiler Gain & In-game Force Feedback strength:
The gain setting on the PC is for the most part analogous to the Force Feedback setting in-game. As has been noted in this thread, on the CSW v2 the wheels FF setting completely overrides the in-game Force Feedback setting on the PS4. With Logitech wheels on the PC, checking the "Allow game to override settings" option in the profiler has the opposite effect - Gain settings in the profiler will have no impact and are overriden by the in-game Force Feedback setting. Aside from the fanatec wheel this is precisely what happens on consoles. On both platforms they're really just setting the devices master gain property. Nothing mystical is going on here that is different between them.
As for disabling the spring in FCM, looks like you may have discovered a bug.
I do use a spring effect in the test but only to settle the wheel after I recenter it, just to ensure any momentum picked up doesn't cause it to travel too far past center. It isn't vital to the test however and can safely be disabled. It's really only there to satisfy my OCD. If it is failing due to some flawed logic in my centering routine and needs a nudge to get going again (which is quite surprising but I don't at all doubt your report), this could skew your results.
Based on the T300 linear force test results that I have gathered here, the numbers you posted (SK around 0.8 & SR around 0.4 - 0.5) look to be pretty close to the mark.
I'll take another look at the code tonight and see if I can determing where it might be failing. I wonder if this is related to the test issues reported with the CSW v2? You might be on to something here morpwr. Thanks for the info.
So far I'm really happy figuring this out. Took a little adjusting to the feel but much easier to drive especially side by side I can tell exactly whats going on. If I hit a car either I just screwed up or the ai hacked me. 4 20 lap races with totally different cars everything from the 49c to the rocket bunny and 2 firsts and a 7 and 8th. Only finished that far back because I got caught in traffic. Was setting the pace on both races by a second or more if I had more time I would have won those too. 21 cars in the races set at 80ai. The 49c race at Monza was fun!!!! Rumble strips don't totally upset the cars anymore and the brake feel is really good.:D Its a different feel from what I was used to running but I think its along the lines of haidens less is more and to me feels much more realistic. I wish I would have had thought about the spring settings along time ago.
I decided to give the no Scoops a shot, since that's what the FCM tool recommended. I've been driving with Scoops disabled most of the week, and I think I like it even better. I thought the understeer feel was missing, but it's still there. It just feels a little different. I didn't change anything else in the globals.
I decided to give the no Scoops a shot, since that's what the FCM tool recommended. I've been driving with Scoops disabled most of the week, and I think I like it even better. I thought the understeer feel was missing, but it's still there. It just feels a little different. I didn't change anything else in the globals.
That's kind of the conclusion I came to after rerunning the fcm with spring disabled. I would have never come up with sr that high but its almost perfectly linear that way so I figured id give it a shot. I would figure your wheel would be pretty linear to begin with and probably wouldn't need much. It seems the fcm is pretty accurate at this point. I just assumed that was the way it worked only turning left before I disabled the spring. Another pcars problem solved.lol Back to the new settings. I really like the new ones. I can finally use the rumble strips in most cases without fear of loosing the car and the wheel is very smooth now. Its definitely a different feel but its really good once your brain adjusts to being able to feel the subtle pull from grip or lack of instead of exaggerated forces covering up the finer detail.
Spring Effects:
In game, the only place spring effects are used as far as I know is the menu spring, low speed spring and the soft locks. Aside from the soft locks, these obviously don't come into play during normal driving. SMS have given us almost complete control over these effects anyhow - Between the coefficent, saturation and force feedback settings they've all but exposed the programming interface directly to us.
Driver/Profiler Gain & In-game Force Feedback strength:
The gain setting on the PC is for the most part analogous to the Force Feedback setting in-game. As has been noted in this thread, on the CSW v2 the wheels FF setting completely overrides the in-game Force Feedback setting on the PS4. With Logitech wheels on the PC, checking the "Allow game to override settings" option in the profiler has the opposite effect - Gain settings in the profiler will have no impact and are overriden by the in-game Force Feedback setting. Aside from the fanatec wheel this is precisely what happens on consoles. On both platforms they're really just setting the devices master gain property. Nothing mystical is going on here that is different between them.
As for disabling the spring in FCM, looks like you may have discovered a bug.
I do use a spring effect in the test but only to settle the wheel after I recenter it, just to ensure any momentum picked up doesn't cause it to travel too far past center. It isn't vital to the test however and can safely be disabled. It's really only there to satisfy my OCD. If it is failing due to some flawed logic in my centering routine and needs a nudge to get going again (which is quite surprising but I don't at all doubt your report), this could skew your results.
Based on the T300 linear force test results that I have gathered here, the numbers you posted (SK around 0.8 & SR around 0.4 - 0.5) look to be pretty close to the mark.
I'll take another look at the code tonight and see if I can determing where it might be failing. I wonder if this is related to the test issues reported with the CSW v2? You might be on to something here morpwr. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for answering my post. I wouldn't worry at all about having the spring on. It was no where near anything I would worry about damaging the wheel with it disabled. So maybe if it easier than finding the problem just tell everyone to turn it off. I don't know what made me think of that this time when i used the fcm. One of those light bulb moments.lol At this point id say the fcm is pretty much right on the money!
And you guys thought we would run out of things to talk about.....
That's kind of the conclusion I came to after rerunning the fcm with spring disabled. I would have never come up with sr that high but its almost perfectly linear that way so I figured id give it a shot. I would figure your wheel would be pretty linear to begin with and probably wouldn't need much. It seems the fcm is pretty accurate at this point. I just assumed that was the way it worked only turning left before I disabled the spring. Another pcars problem solved.lol Back to the new settings. I really like the new ones. I can finally use the rumble strips in most cases without fear of loosing the car and the wheel is very smooth now. Its definitely a different feel but its really good once your brain adjusts to being able to feel the subtle pull from grip or lack of instead of exaggerated forces covering up the finer detail.
Yep. Mine was close to linear. The only thing it recommended was DRR=0.02, which is lower than the 0.05 I had been running.
And you guys thought we would run out of things to talk about.....
Spent six to eight hours doing nothing but blind testing to try and recapture my aha moment of FFB nirvana and while I have a great deal of theoretical appreciation of the infinite tweaking SMS gave us to fine tune the feel, I have a good deal less satisfaction with the total lack of documentation or actual support in trying to get us a functional ffb setting.
Maybe I'm just being a prissy prick here but like most of us here, I paid full price for the game, bought every single offering to help support the whole enterprise (kept my mouth shut about content like ovals and such because some topics are off limits by the devs) and here it is more than a year later the only resource for actually setting up the game are its users?
We're it not for people like GrimeyDog, Poirqc, tennenbaum, Skoader, Haiden, Morpwr, Morpwr, Jack Spade, oscarlim, and of course a few others, users all, I suspect there would be a lot less users than otherwise, I hope you guys all get the next game free.
Has anyone compiled what the individual settings are for yet or figured out the methodology behind getting to a usable wheel setting? I would be more than happy to help compile a settings guide that makes sense if anyone wants to start tossing links at me, let me know and I'm more than happy to pass on an email address.
I decided to give the no Scoops a shot, since that's what the FCM tool recommended. I've been driving with Scoops disabled most of the week, and I think I like it even better. I thought the understeer feel was missing, but it's still there. It just feels a little different. I didn't change anything else in the globals.
Yeah, if you can already feel everything needed, Scoops can be skipped altoger!
Spent six to eight hours doing nothing but blind testing to try and recapture my aha moment of FFB nirvana and while I have a great deal of theoretical appreciation of the infinite tweaking SMS gave us to fine tune the feel, I have a good deal less satisfaction with the total lack of documentation or actual support in trying to get us a functional ffb setting.
Maybe I'm just being a prissy prick here but like most of us here, I paid full price for the game, bought every single offering to help support the whole enterprise (kept my mouth shut about content like ovals and such because some topics are off limits by the devs) and here it is more than a year later the only resource for actually setting up the game are its users?
We're it not for people like GrimeyDog, Poirqc, tennenbaum, Skoader, Haiden, Morpwr, Morpwr, Jack Spade, oscarlim, and of course a few others, users all, I suspect there would be a lot less users than otherwise, I hope you guys all get the next game free.
Has anyone compiled what the individual settings are for yet or figured out the methodology behind getting to a usable wheel setting? I would be more than happy to help compile a settings guide that makes sense if anyone wants to start tossing links at me, let me know and I'm more than happy to pass on an email address.
There is an official guide, but...
That's what i tried to do with the baseline thread. I tried to explain hows pCars tools works when the official description was short on details.
(short description, it's more than that.)
Jack Spades talked and Grimeydog mostly talked about Car FFB.
Oscar Olim linked complete custom FFB templates.
The baseline thread was to help someone build his own custom template.
When i update the baseline thread, i try to link and give credits the best that i can. If you want to contribute, i'll gladly update the thread and reference you.
Spent six to eight hours doing nothing but blind testing to try and recapture my aha moment of FFB nirvana and while I have a great deal of theoretical appreciation of the infinite tweaking SMS gave us to fine tune the feel, I have a good deal less satisfaction with the total lack of documentation or actual support in trying to get us a functional ffb setting.
Maybe I'm just being a prissy prick here but like most of us here, I paid full price for the game, bought every single offering to help support the whole enterprise (kept my mouth shut about content like ovals and such because some topics are off limits by the devs) and here it is more than a year later the only resource for actually setting up the game are its users?
We're it not for people like GrimeyDog, Poirqc, tennenbaum, Skoader, Haiden, Morpwr, Morpwr, Jack Spade, oscarlim, and of course a few others, users all, I suspect there would be a lot less users than otherwise, I hope you guys all get the next game free.
Has anyone compiled what the individual settings are for yet or figured out the methodology behind getting to a usable wheel setting? I would be more than happy to help compile a settings guide that makes sense if anyone wants to start tossing links at me, let me know and I'm more than happy to pass on an email address.
Actually poirqc has a really good guide in his signature if you want to tweak yourself and tennebaum has some really good in depth stuff on the technical side. We have talked about making it easier to find the information in here and I know poirqc has updated his post and so has grimey to try and aid newcomers.We were all in the same place as you at one point and understand the frustration. You get pieces of how good it could be but not all at once. The descriptions will start to make more sense once you get a better understanding of how it works. But as of right now poirqc,tennebaum and here are the best we have right now. Everybody here will be more then happy to help with questions you have but you should post the settings your using now and what youre trying to feel more of. If youre using grimeys way just follow his guide. If you want to try jacks car settings id just use my settings on the oscarolim site and change the scoops to sr46 and sk 81 and set ffb master to your liking.
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 18:36
Yeah, if you can already feel everything needed, Scoops can be skipped altoger!
There is an official guide, but...
That's what i tried to do with the baseline thread. I tried to explain hows pCars tools works when the official description was short on details.
(short description, it's more than that.)
Jack Spades talked and Grimeydog mostly talked about Car FFB.
Oscar Olim linked complete custom FFB templates.
The baseline thread was to help someone build his own custom template.
When i update the baseline thread, i try to link and give credits the best that i can. If you want to contribute, i'll gladly update the thread and reference you.
Poirqc i have the Common terminology Post you made and a Link to your baseline Tthread on the Front page... i have been updating the front page a bit at a time...your thread has been linked a few weeks
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 18:41
Spent six to eight hours doing nothing but blind testing to try and recapture my aha moment of FFB nirvana and while I have a great deal of theoretical appreciation of the infinite tweaking SMS gave us to fine tune the feel, I have a good deal less satisfaction with the total lack of documentation or actual support in trying to get us a functional ffb setting.
Maybe I'm just being a prissy prick here but like most of us here, I paid full price for the game, bought every single offering to help support the whole enterprise (kept my mouth shut about content like ovals and such because some topics are off limits by the devs) and here it is more than a year later the only resource for actually setting up the game are its users?
We're it not for people like GrimeyDog, Poirqc, tennenbaum, Skoader, Haiden, Morpwr, Morpwr, Jack Spade, oscarlim, and of course a few others, users all, I suspect there would be a lot less users than otherwise, I hope you guys all get the next game free.
Has anyone compiled what the individual settings are for yet or figured out the methodology behind getting to a usable wheel setting? I would be more than happy to help compile a settings guide that makes sense if anyone wants to start tossing links at me, let me know and I'm more than happy to pass on an email address.
What feel ate you looking to get or bring out More of???
What feel ate you looking to get or bring out More of???
As far as a feel I need to pull out, since it's new I've run a bunch of laps on the Nord combined, just can't catch the front/rear as the road surface introduces modulation to the wheel/chassis and it's happening even if I'm not pushing too hard.
I had completed times of around 9:15 and then the other night hit that sweet spot I lost and hit 9:01 I think without even pushing hard. Obviously taking that much time off a run would get anyone's attention but it was one of those oops starting to get light out, let me try this change, holy crap that feels great can't wait to sleep and come back tomorrow to dig in a bit more things.
RobboCod
22-05-2016, 19:15
Actually poirqc has a really good guide in his signature if you want to tweak yourself and tennebaum has some really good in depth stuff on the technical side. We have talked about making it easier to find the information in here and I know poirqc has updated his post and so has grimey to try and aid newcomers.We were all in the same place as you at one point and understand the frustration. You get pieces of how good it could be but not all at once. The descriptions will start to make more sense once you get a better understanding of how it works. But as of right now poirqc,tennebaum and here are the best we have right now. Everybody here will be more then happy to help with questions you have but you should post the settings your using now and what youre trying to feel more of. If youre using grimeys way just follow his guide. If you want to try jacks car settings id just use my settings on the oscarolim site and change the scoops to sr46 and sk 81 and set ffb master to your liking.
morpwr,
Are your oscarolim website settings still accurate apart from the sr and sk settings mentioned? I use your settings plus JS in car settings. I've found them the best feel so far for me and want to try any changes you've made.
morpwr,
Are your oscarolim website settings still accurate apart from the sr and sk settings mentioned? I use your settings plus JS in car settings. I've found them the best feel so far for me and want to try any changes you've made.
Yes I just changed the scoops and raised the drr a little. I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure I ended at .10 for drr. I wanted to test a little more before I posted them. Give them a try and let me know what you think.
RobboCod
22-05-2016, 19:29
Yes I just changed the scoops and raised the drr a little. I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure I ended at .10 for drr. I wanted to test a little more before I posted them. Give them a try and let me know what you think.
Thanks man, it's appreciated. If I get time a bit later I'll run some laps with adjusted values and let you know.
I know it's been covered time and time again and yet I must be missing something, it goes back to the ps4 ffb slider and it being the final "volume" control, Jack Spade says 100 %, sms sets it at 75, we set it at what we want in terms of final strength output. Is that correct so far? So is it a case of in the ffb calibration screen it's like an amp, the ffb slider in the wheel config screen, the volume and finally the in car ffb settings the equalizer where we bring out the attributes we want?
I know it's been covered time and time again and yet I must be missing something, it goes back to the ps4 ffb slider and it being the final "volume" control, Jack Spade says 100 %, sms sets it at 75, we set it at what we want in terms of final strength output. Is that correct so far? So is it a case of in the ffb calibration screen it's like an amp, the ffb slider in the wheel config screen, the volume and finally the in car ffb settings the equalizer where we bring out the attributes we want?
Jack is correct on pc on the ps4 its like their profiler screen. So it is your final volume control. I don't recommend setting above 75 and you really shouldn't need to. The 75 is default from thrustmaster. Yes the car settings let you balance the forces from the cars physics.
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 20:55
Spent six to eight hours doing nothing but blind testing to try and recapture my aha moment of FFB nirvana and while I have a great deal of theoretical appreciation of the infinite tweaking SMS gave us to fine tune the feel, I have a good deal less satisfaction with the total lack of documentation or actual support in trying to get us a functional ffb setting.
Maybe I'm just being a prissy prick here but like most of us here, I paid full price for the game, bought every single offering to help support the whole enterprise (kept my mouth shut about content like ovals and such because some topics are off limits by the devs) and here it is more than a year later the only resource for actually setting up the game are its users?
We're it not for people like GrimeyDog, Poirqc, tennenbaum, Skoader, Haiden, Morpwr, Morpwr, Jack Spade, oscarlim, and of course a few others, users all, I suspect there would be a lot less users than otherwise, I hope you guys all get the next game free.
Has anyone compiled what the individual settings are for yet or figured out the methodology behind getting to a usable wheel setting? I would be more than happy to help compile a settings guide that makes sense if anyone wants to start tossing links at me, let me know and I'm more than happy to pass on an email address.
What feel are you looking to get or bring out More of??? Maybe I can suggest what to tweek to help you bring it out.
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 21:00
Jack is correct on pc on the ps4 its like their profiler screen. So it is your final volume control. I don't recommend setting above 75 and you really shouldn't need to. The 75 is default from thrustmaster. Yes the car settings let you balance the forces from the cars physics.
100% GM FFB that is True Now after 8.0 and up but only for Fanatec wheels because GM FFB is Now set by Fanatec on Wheel FFB control... as you say TM and Logitec wheels are Different and should be adjusted according to Manufacturers Recommendation First and by Feel Second to adjust the Final at the Wheel FFB strength.
Grimey, maybe it's not descriptive enough but the wheel goes from nice firm solid to its floating over bumps I guess is the way to describe it.
Grimey, maybe it's not descriptive enough but the wheel goes from nice firm solid to its floating over bumps I guess is the way to describe it.
We need to know what your settings are now
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 21:43
We need to know what your settings are now
I believe he is using My Settings with Modified Scoops.
Did you change the scoop settings??? if so What are your scoop settings???
what is your RAB set to??? Lower RAB keeps the wheel Firmer in the center...also what car are you testing on.
I believe he is using My Settings with Modified Scoops.
Did you change the scoop settings??? if so What are your scoop settings???
what is your RAB set to??? Lower RAB keeps the wheel Firmer in the center...also what car are you testing on.
He should be able to use my new scoops with your settings. I thought he was using your settings but I wasn't sure.
RobboCod
22-05-2016, 21:58
Morpwr,
Ok, I've run some laps using drr at 0.10, sk 0.81 and sr 0.46. As per your other settings, everything mirrored oscarolim page. Wheel felt much lighter than your previous settings. I've always left ffb master at 60 but adjusted this to 75 for the new values. Maybe I'm just used to the wheel weight being slightly heavier but the ffb felt much more informative after adjusting the master. When I left ffb at 60 with new values I was struggling to notice what was going on as easily. As I say, perhaps because I'm used to more weight. I'm going to play around more another day as it is late in UK. Just for extra info I was at Imola using Aston Martin GT4, I use JS SoP lateral car settings.
Morpwr,
Ok, I've run some laps using drr at 0.10, sk 0.81 and sr 0.46. As per your other settings, everything mirrored oscarolim page. Wheel felt much lighter than your previous settings. I've always left ffb master at 60 but adjusted this to 75 for the new values. Maybe I'm just used to the wheel weight being slightly heavier but the ffb felt much more informative after adjusting the master. When I left ffb at 60 with new values I was struggling to notice what was going on as easily. As I say, perhaps because I'm used to more weight. I'm going to play around more another day as it is late in UK. Just for extra info I was at Imola using Aston Martin GT4, I use JS SoP lateral car settings.
I'm using ffb at 68 so that makes sense. I actually was up to 75 during testing but ended up turning it down after getting used to the new feel.
You guys are very helpful and I apologize for not being as prompt in replying.
I just came off almost identical settings to http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/wheel-settings/browse/ps4-1/114, but with pws at .04, DRR/DRF at10/20 RAC at .75, SK .75, SR .23 with steering gain at .75 and the car was floating around donnington, 3 red circles to varying degrees on each turn. I changed to the oscarlim site Morpwr settings with JS Classic settings and it's a night and day difference, with the wheel actually grabbing.
I'm just at a loss at it all. My usual GrimeyDogMethod™ Settings are 100, 10, 30, 50, 20-30 depending with sop at 100,10,60-80
I seem to have missed the new scoop settings?
Sorry ATM I'm running the ford falcon fg v8 supercar
You guys are very helpful and I apologize for not being as prompt in replying.
I just came off almost identical settings to http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/wheel-settings/browse/ps4-1/114, but with pws at .04, DRR/DRF at10/20 RAC at .75, SK .75, SR .23 with steering gain at .75 and the car was floating around donnington, 3 red circles to varying degrees on each turn. I changed to the oscarlim site Morpwr settings with JS Classic settings and it's a night and day difference, with the wheel actually grabbing.
I'm just at a loss at it all. My usual GrimeyDogMethod™ Settings are 100, 10, 30, 50, 20-30 depending with sop at 100,10,60-80
It better with the new scoop values of sr 46-48 and SK 81. I don't use Pws either I don't think you need it with the t300 it doesn't really have much drag.
It better with the new scoop values of sr 46-48 and SK 81.
I'm going to jump right in on the scoop settings, that makes a lot of sense actually.
I've been playing with the bleed setting all weekend and to me it really does seem that the recipe has to almost perfect to get anything close to a proper result. This is what I was referring to the other day with my French fies and salt thing, it was ok, then it was amazing and then with no change on my part it went to less than ok.
I know with the ps4 it's not supposed to matter much but I did dl update the new t300 bios but that came after the great ffb disappearing on me.
I'm going to jump right in on the scoop settings, that makes a lot of sense actually.
I've been playing with the bleed setting all weekend and to me it really does seem that the recipe has to almost perfect to get anything close to a proper result. This is what I was referring to the other day with my French fies and salt thing, it was ok, then it was amazing and then with no change on my part it went to less than ok.
I know with the ps4 it's not supposed to matter much but I did dl update the new t300 bios but that came after the great ffb disappearing on me.
I wouldn't turn rab up past .03 it will start to make the forces grab and hang. But feel free to experiment just watch for that. But yes any one setting being off can drastically change the feel. Its taken me almost a year with help and input from many on here to get those settings.
I have pages and pages of notes going back over six months now, there were some early mentions of things like DRR and DRF HAD to be in increments of 1/2, as in DRR 5 DRF has to be 10, should I just clean house and start fresh?
And one of you guys ought to publish a pcars user guide and sell the damn thing, sms should have done something but I guess they've been busy making the next version I guess.
In my most irritated moments I've been saving bug videos lol, I have some very funny ones so far, invisible walls and one where the car seems to get launched sideways off a straight on spa, watching that one always cracks me up. It's like the scene in gone in 60 seconds, where the cop car gets hit from the drivers side with the huge wrecking ball and is blasted through the wall.
I wouldn't turn rab up past .03 it will start to make the forces grab and hang. But feel free to experiment just watch for that. But yes any one setting being off can drastically change the feel. Its taken me almost a year with help and input from many on here to get those settings.
As far as RAB goes on the PS4 FFB calibration screen it says "1.0" is the starting point but then goes ahead and uses .10 as the default I believe, a full 90 points difference, but hey what do I know about all this math stuff. /snarkoff
On PWS, unless you have a good feel from the wheel and ffb how would you ever know the difference between bad driving and wheel acceleration on turns? There are plenty of times I've encountered what def seemed something odd in trying to finish a turn but till I can get a grip on grip I'm just not gonna go there.
I have pages and pages of notes going back over six months now, there were some early mentions of things like DRR and DRF HAD to be in increments of 1/2, as in DRR 5 DRF has to be 10, should I just clean house and start fresh?
And one of you guys ought to publish a pcars user guide and sell the damn thing, sms should have done something but I guess they've been busy making the next version I guess.
In my most irritated moments I've been saving bug videos lol, I have some very funny ones so far, invisible walls and one where the car seems to get launched sideways off a straight on spa, watching that one always cracks me up. It's like the scene in gone in 60 seconds, where the cop car gets hit from the drivers side with the huge wrecking ball and is blasted through the wall.
drf is usually 1/10 of drr as a starting point but that still being discussed some. But that will get you in the ballpark. If youre getting a lot of those issues id delete everything and reinstall the game. Yes you will loose everything. I haven't had many up until my last install where things somehow went horribly wrong.lol If you've changed the wheel globals a lot id definitely reset them a couple times at least and put the new numbers back in and wait till the save icon stops before backing out of the screen. Yes the rab in the menus is a known typo they never fixed.
On PWS, unless you have a good feel from the wheel and ffb how would you ever know the difference between bad driving and wheel acceleration on turns? There are plenty of times I've encountered what def seemed something odd in trying to finish a turn but till I can get a grip on grip I'm just not gonna go there.
Just leave it off for now. Like you said it will just make things harder to distinguish for right now. If you get something you like setting wise give yourself a few days at least to adjust to it before you start changing things again. Then change one thing at a time so you can see the effect. Even for all of us sometimes its really hard to tell why something feels better until you have some time with it. Lower steering gain and tf where some recent ones that caused serious discussion and some arguing.lol
GrimeyDog
22-05-2016, 23:50
RAB 0.08
SK 68
SR 24
Those are My Scoop and Bleed Settings
Keep in Mind that My settings were tuned to the Stock Suspension...This Means if you have Cars that Have custom Suspension Tweeks You May Have to Re Tune your Car suspension to the FFB Tweek.
Not sure if you can tell but I've been lurking here since I installed the game and especially after dropping the coin on the t300rs. The game/me fried my Logitech wheel, I got a t-80 :( and very quickly knew it was pointless without the ffb again.
I latched onto Grimey because I thought the concept made sense, diff cars diff feel and all that, Jack Spade earned his name so far as I can tell, I'm like most here I think, we like driving and this game has some great potential in that regard. I'm a good deal older than most I would guess and my point is I'm not here because I'm bored but for the enjoyment and you guys have helped enhance that aspect greatly, I thank you all very much.
Alrighty then, scoops, the wheel feels lighter, much more subtle but in four laps I just came close to my best times so there's something to these settings, what is the logic behind going to the highest settings I've seen anywhere?
RAB 0.08
SK 68
SR 24
Those are My Scoop and Bleed Settings
Keep in Mind that My settings were tuned to the Stock Suspension...This Means if you have Cars that Have custom Suspension Tweeks You May Have to Re Tune your Car suspension to the FFB Tweek.
You should update your sig to include my GrimeyDogMethod™, just sayin.
Not sure if you can tell but I've been lurking here since I installed the game and especially after dropping the coin on the t300rs. The game/me fried my Logitech wheel, I got a t-80 :( and very quickly knew it was pointless without the ffb again.
I latched onto Grimey because I thought the concept made sense, diff cars diff feel and all that, Jack Spade earned his name so far as I can tell, I'm like most here I think, we like driving and this game has some great potential in that regard. I'm a good deal older than most I would guess and my point is I'm not here because I'm bored but for the enjoyment and you guys have helped enhance that aspect greatly, I thank you all very much.
Alrighty then, scoops, the wheel feels lighter, much more subtle but in four laps I just came close to my best times so there's something to these settings, what is the logic behind going to the highest settings I've seen anywhere?
Many of us are probably older than you would guess. Myself ,grimey and Haiden are considered the old guys around here and we are mid 40s.lol What do you have the ffb master at? I'm using 68. Its a good balance between feel and weight. Once you get used to them youll probably get faster. It took me a little bit to get comfortable being able to really feel the brakes and grip feel going into corners. There really is just different ways to use the ffb and comes down to what you feel comfortable with. There is no right or wrong just some like more wheel weight and some like more subtle feel. For myself I couldn't find anyway that worked as well as jacks car settings but that's just my opinion. Like I said no right or wrong just depends on what your hands and brain feel are correct.
I was at ffb 60, just upped it a bit to see. It just seemed odd that the much higher scoops brought such a subtle feeling to the wheel, previously I think the highest I ever set it was based on one of the wheelcheck spreadsheets I ran, 77-23 I think.
Of course ATM I'm driving a car with no stopping power so it's hard to even guess at what I'm feeling.
But as an idea of how bad my wheel settings went off this weekend, driving the Pagani huayra under moderate to heavy acceleration, the car was breaking lose as it shifted. I read and observed this last update introduced a shift lag bug where especially in the formula a car, it puts you into a spin. I had something similar happening. Def not my idea of a good time lol
https://youtu.be/G9dIKzMJV3k
Many of us are probably older than you would guess. Myself ,grimey and Haiden are considered the old guys around here and we are mid 40s.lol
I just turned 40 this year so not too far behind you guys. :livid:
I was at ffb 60, just upped it a bit to see. It just seemed odd that the much higher scoops brought such a subtle feeling to the wheel, previously I think the highest I ever set it was based on one of the wheelcheck spreadsheets I ran, 77-23 I think.
Of course ATM I'm driving a car with no stopping power so it's hard to even guess at what I'm feeling.
But as an idea of how bad my wheel settings went off this weekend, driving the Pagani huayra under moderate to heavy acceleration, the car was breaking lose as it shifted. I read and observed this last update introduced a shift lag bug where especially in the formula a car, it puts you into a spin. I had something similar happening. Def not my idea of a good time lol
https://youtu.be/G9dIKzMJV3k
That's because the lower sr pushed all the low forces too high so you lost the range of forces you could feel. Probably raising the ffb some more should really help you feel everything. The pagani is twitchy but ffb settings set wrong exaggerate things and make you think youre feeling something youre not. Ive never had a problem with the formula a car.
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 00:41
You should update your sig to include my GrimeyDogMethod™, just sayin.
LOL i think i will do that... LOL... Im 46 and Proud to be a Gamer!!! I Love Racing Games...Gaming actually Saves Me alot of $$$... Keeps Me home and away from trouble.. LOL... I Tweek for the Love of Racing and Helping My Fellow Sim Racer.... Hmmm Now when i do a couple Car Set ups Hmmm... to Share or Not to Share... LOL...
I been Running 1:22.xxx Gt3 Ruf Stock set up All Night online Racing Laguna Seca!!! This tweek is the 1!!!
I was at ffb 60, just upped it a bit to see. It just seemed odd that the much higher scoops brought such a subtle feeling to the wheel, previously I think the highest I ever set it was based on one of the wheelcheck spreadsheets I ran, 77-23 I think.
Of course ATM I'm driving a car with no stopping power so it's hard to even guess at what I'm feeling.
But as an idea of how bad my wheel settings went off this weekend, driving the Pagani huayra under moderate to heavy acceleration, the car was breaking lose as it shifted. I read and observed this last update introduced a shift lag bug where especially in the formula a car, it puts you into a spin. I had something similar happening. Def not my idea of a good time lol
https://youtu.be/G9dIKzMJV3k
Did you use the fcm? I think I figured out by accident we needed to turn off the damper and spring in the thrustmaster control panel before using it. That's how I came up with the correct scoops. Skoader is looking into it as he thinks it may be an issue with the fcm program. But if you want to check for yourself just turn it off first and make sure your dor is set correctly in the control panel and the fcm. I'm actually using the ford fusion stockcar at Sonoma short now. Fun combination. 1:16.77 so far in 16 laps and only dropped the air pressure a little bit.
Did you use the fcm? I think I figured out by accident we needed to turn off the damper and spring in the thrustmaster control panel before using it. That's how I came up with the correct scoops. Skoader is looking into it as he thinks it may be an issue with the fcm program. But if you want to check for yourself just turn it off first and make sure your dor is set correctly in the control panel and the fcm. I'm actually using the ford fusion stockcar at Sonoma short now. Fun combination. 16.77 so far in 16 laps and only dropped the air pressure a little bit.
In the thrustmaster utility I turned everything to zero except the main ffb and left that at 75%, changed it to let game decide center, or however that is phrased.
Don't remember using fcm just the wheelcheck/spreadsheet stuff back a few months ago, should I?
In the thrustmaster utility I turned everything to zero except the main ffb and left that at 75%, changed it to let game decide center, or however that is phrased.
Don't remember using fcm just the wheelcheck/spreadsheet stuff back a few months ago, should I?
It probably doesn't matter at this point you should get the same scoop values as I did. But that is the problem you cant let the game decide in the thrustmaster profiler screen because you aren't using one when you test it. I overlooked that for a long time. You need to turn off damper and spring in the control panel and don't pick let the game decide. Skoader agreed earlier that the new scoop values look more inline with what they should be and at this point I'm loving them.
I just turned 40 this year so not too far behind you guys. :livid:
Been lmao over here, that makes you the same age as the 455 TransAm in my carport.
It never fails, when I play online I'm always stuck playing with a bunch of damn youngsters.
It probably doesn't matter at this point you should get the same scoop values as I did. But that is the problem you cant let the game decide in the thrustmaster profiler screen because you aren't using one when you test it. I overlooked that for a long time. You need to turn off damper and spring in the control panel and don't pick let the game decide. Skoader agreed earlier that the new scoop values look more inline with what they should be and at this point I'm loving them.
I was trying to say that those values sure seems to let a whole lot of feeling through that were prob being stomped on before.
On PWS, unless you have a good feel from the wheel and ffb how would you ever know the difference between bad driving and wheel acceleration on turns? There are plenty of times I've encountered what def seemed something odd in trying to finish a turn but till I can get a grip on grip I'm just not gonna go there.
What they mean by wheel acceleration is the following. You move your steering wheel 50° to the left, at a constant speed. Your front wheel should follow that movement at the same constant speed. When removing drag, if turning the steering wheel, at a constant speed, make the front wheels turn progressively faster, there's something wrong.
The same apply if you add drag. If the front wheels move progressively slower, when you steer, PWM(S) needs more tuning.
As far as RAB goes on the PS4 FFB calibration screen it says "1.0" is the starting point but then goes ahead and uses .10 as the default I believe, a full 90 points difference, but hey what do I know about all this math stuff. /snarkoff
Usable RAB values are between 0,01 and 0,30, like morpwr said. More than that and weird stuff happends.
About Deadzones Removals(DRR / DRF)
Depending on your FFB template, you may need to tune them differently. In any case, you should use the least amount possible of either one.
I was trying to say that those values sure seems to let a whole lot of feeling through that were prob being stomped on before.
You nailed it!
Been lmao over here, that makes you the same age as the 455 TransAm in my carport.
It never fails, when I play online I'm always stuck playing with a bunch of damn youngsters.
Nice! The last of the good ones. I had a 76 my girlfriend at the time totaled.:(
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 10:47
Hmmm... The Aaah Ha Moment Hit Me last Night!!! Those with Fanatec wheels will Notice this Right away...
IMO what it seems SMS has done is Created a FFB System to Give all wheels the same options that are on Fanatec wheel:yes: that would explain why Fanatec wheels the GM FFB works differently... Im Even wondering if the Dpr/Spr in the Global settings work on Fanatec wheels because Fanatec Has on wheel DPR/SPR settings.
This Should Make the Settings even More Clear and easy to adjust across different wheels once this is understood.
Even Fanatec Has a "FOR" setting that can be used at +5 to increase FFB effects without Raising the wheel weight because it operates independently of the on wheel "FFB" Level setting... This seems to be the same as setting RAG 101+ to Spice up FFB Forces.... Hmmmm More to Follow...if some one with a Fanatec wheel could test the DPR setting in the Global settings to see if it works with Fanatec wheels that would be Good.
Hmmm... The Aaah Ha Moment Hit Me last Night!!! Those with Fanatec wheels will Notice this Right away...
IMO what it seems SMS has done is Created a FFB System to Give all wheels the same options that are on Fanatec wheel:yes: that would explain why Fanatec wheels the GM FFB works differently... Im Even wondering if the Dpr/Spr in the Global settings work on Fanatec wheels because Fanatec Has on wheel DPR/SPR settings.
This Should Make the Settings even More Clear and easy to adjust once this us understood.
Even Fanatec Has a "FOR" setting that can be used at +5 to increase FFB effects without Raising the wheel weight because it operates independently of the on wheel "FFB" Level setting... This seems to be the same as setting RAG 101+ to Spice up FFB Forces.... Hmmmm More to Follow...if some one with a Fanatec wheel could test the DPR setting in the Global settings to see if it works with Fanatec wheels that would be Good.
Do you run the spr/dpr turned on at the wheel or off? Id assume off at the wheel because in most cases you let the game decide that just sms gave us the option to control it.
Hmmm... The Aaah Ha Moment Hit Me last Night!!! Those with Fanatec wheels will Notice this Right away...
IMO what it seems SMS has done is Created a FFB System to Give all wheels the same options that are on Fanatec wheel:yes: that would explain why Fanatec wheels the GM FFB works differently... Im Even wondering if the Dpr/Spr in the Global settings work on Fanatec wheels because Fanatec Has on wheel DPR/SPR settings.
This Should Make the Settings even More Clear and easy to adjust once this us understood.
Even Fanatec Has a "FOR" setting that can be used at +5 to increase FFB effects without Raising the wheel weight because it operates independently of the on wheel "FFB" Level setting... This seems to be the same as setting RAG 101+ to Spice up FFB Forces.... Hmmmm More to Follow...if some one with a Fanatec wheel could test the DPR setting in the Global settings to see if it works with Fanatec wheels that would be Good.
I haven't messed with the damper setting. Mine's at whatever the default is. But I used to run Spring at 50, and it did have an affect. It's not like the @wheel FF. Not sure that explains the override, since it doesn't work that way on Xb1.
Do you run the spr/dpr turned on at the wheel or off? Id assume off at the wheel because in most cases you let the game decide that just sms gave us the option to control it.
The instructions says setting Spr too low will result in the wheel not being able to center properly. IMO, leaving it set to 100 is the same as letting the game decide, ensuring that the game's output is communicated as-is, with no attenuation. The manual also states the following about the Xb1:
Force, spring and damper modifiers cannot be used on Xbox One since those separated FFB signals are not used in the XBO force feedback system.
Don't know if that's still true, since the MS update, but if it is, it might explain why the Xb1 and PS4 FFB differs so much.
[QUOTE=Haiden;1280921]I haven't messed with the damper setting. Mine's at whatever the default is. But I used to run Spring at 50, and it did have an affect. It's not like the @wheel FF. Not sure that explains the override, since it doesn't work that way on Xb1.
The instructions says setting Spr too low will result in the wheel not being able to center properly. IMO, leaving it set to 100 is the same as letting the game decide, ensuring that the game's output is communicated as-is with no attenuation. The manual also states the following about the Xb1:
Force, spring and damper modifiers cannot be used on Xbox One since those separated FFB signals are not used in the XBO force feedback system.
Don't know if that's still true, since the MS update, but if it is, it might explain why the Xb1 and PS4 FFB differs so much.[/QUOT
So you guys are actually using the game and the wheel to set that?
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 12:03
Do you run the spr/dpr turned on at the wheel or off? Id assume off at the wheel because in most cases you let the game decide that just sms gave us the option to control it.
I leave Spr/Dpr at the Default Value on the wheel... I believe that would keep it Neutral.
But what ever the case the Fanatec on wheel settings Must be taken into account when cross Tweeking for different wheels.
Also Wheel FW Must be taken into account also because Ex: Global +1 Dpr on Fanatec May = a force of +1 while TM It may = +1.5 or even Vice Versa and same for other settings... Fanatec, TM, Logitec wheel FW is probably Not calculated on a 1 to 1 basis... Excluding personal FFB taste for this equation would explain why Fanatec wheels may feel spot on but TM wheels may Need adjustment using the same Tweek.
We are Now at the Stage where we Can and Should work on Getting Specific Tweek settings in Line with all wheels used.... Ex: a Specific TM/Logitec setting for My Tweek as well as Specific Settings for JS tweeks that will become standard Tweek settings for the different whels used... This will Greatly Shorten the Tweek process for users to Find their personal FFB Sweet Spot...as it is Right Now all Tweeks are General or only Specific to the wheel it was Made on. JMT
So we Need Testers... Who will Test what settigs on what wheel to help Create this universal Cross over FFB template on a per wheel basis.
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 12:09
So you guys are actually using the game and the wheel to set that?
I Guess... My Wheel settings are in the PDF the only setting i change is wheel FFB to 75.... and i've even been using on wheel 65 but it feels a Tad to Light and i cant keep a Steady Line in and out of Corners... a light wheel makes Me over steer constantly and i lose time.
I Guess... My Wheel settings are in the PDF the only setting i change is wheel FFB to 75.... and i've even been using on wheel 65 but it feels a Tad to Light and i can keep a Steady Line in and out of Corners... a light wheel makes Me over steer constantly and i lose time.
I noticed that there is a fine line between too light/too heavy and just right. That's why I settled at 68. Too light you oversteer and too heavy it actually makes you too slow on turn in and quick turns in series like the bus stop at the glen.
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 13:26
I leave Spr/Dpr at the Default Value on the wheel... I believe that would keep it Neutral.
But what ever the case the Fanatec on wheel settings Must be taken into account when cross Tweeking for different wheels.
Also Wheel FW Must be taken into account also because Ex: Global +1 Dpr on Fanatec May = a force of +1 and same for other settings while TM It may = +1.5 or even Vice Versa... Fanatec, TM, Logitec wheel FW is probably Not calculated on a 1 to 1 basis... Excluding personal FFB taste for this equation would explain why Fanatec wheels may feel spot on but TM wheels may Need adjustment using the same Tweek.
We are Now at the Stage where we Can and Should work on Getting Specific Tweek settings in Line with all wheels used.... Ex: a Specific TM/Logitec setting for My Tweek as well as Specific Settings for JS tweeks that will become standard Tweek settings for the different whels used... This will Greatly Shorten the Tweek process for users to Find their personal FFB Sweet Spot...as it is Right Now all Tweeks are General or only Specific to the wheel it was Made on. JMT
So we Need Testers... Who will Test what settigs on what wheel to help Create this universal Cross over FFB template on a per wheel basis.
Reposted due to Editing.
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 13:34
I noticed that there is a fine line between too light/too heavy and just right. That's why I settled at 68. Too light you oversteer and too heavy it actually makes you too slow on turn in and quick turns in series like the bus stop at the glen.
I Agree 100% with this and it is IMO the Correct way GM FFB is supposed to be used to adjust Final at the wheel FFB Strength for wheel other than Fanatec:yes:
RobboCod
23-05-2016, 13:42
It probably doesn't matter at this point you should get the same scoop values as I did. But that is the problem you cant let the game decide in the thrustmaster profiler screen because you aren't using one when you test it. I overlooked that for a long time. You need to turn off damper and spring in the control panel and don't pick let the game decide. Skoader agreed earlier that the new scoop values look more inline with what they should be and at this point I'm loving them.
morpwr, are these control panel adjustments necessary for general use in game or just when you guys are testing and using that FCM tool? I've got a bit lost reading that just now.
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 13:45
PWMS seems to be the same as the Fanatec on Wheel Linearity Setting...i have this set at Default # Value.
I Have My PWMS set to 0.00 and i get if Not then its Very Close1 to 1 Movement with My Hands VS on Screen wheel Movement
morpwr, are these control panel adjustments necessary for general use in game or just when you guys are testing and using that FCM tool? I've got a bit lost reading that just now.
Only if you use the fcm at this point to check scoops. They wont affect anything on the ps4.
RobboCod
23-05-2016, 14:51
Only if you use the fcm at this point to check scoops. They wont affect anything on the ps4.
Thanks for that. Just me wanting to ensure everything is as it should be. I think tomorrow I should be able to have another go with your settings and try a few different cars.
So you guys are actually using the game and the wheel to set that?
No, not both. At least not anymore. One of Jack's settings had Spr=50, and I was running with that for a while. But I changed the @wheel setting back to 100 a while ago. 100 is the default, and I think it's neutral. The same way non-Fanatec wheels on console can't change the Spring setting because they don't have a control panel.
In-game, I lowered the Menu Spring setting, but left the other Spring settings at default.
Since people have been quoting SRs and SKs, these are a couple FCMs I did the past week for my T300. Note that I have the 599XX rim which is a little more robust and slightly wider than the standard. So we have SKnee at around 0.75-0.80 and SR 0.40-0.45
The first one is at profiler at 60% with corrected line and then two 75% strength with corrected lines.
Just wanted to share these to confirm the T300 findings by morpwr and others.
233497233498233500233501233502233503
Here's a closer look at TM's new wheel. I guess the chrome dials actually work. And there are two analog sticks, which I didn't notice in the other pictures. There's a close up that let's you see a little more of the innards. I don't know what the inside of the T300 and TX look like, but that looks like a single cylinder in this base, so it might actually be a DD wheel. :D Still can't tell if the rim is changeable, though. The collar looks like the releasable collar, but it doesn't look like it comes off. :confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74FtElq7mdA&feature=youtu.be
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 15:10
Hmmm... I Really want to Invest in a New PC Now!!! but i just can justify a $1,500.00 to $2,000.00 investment just to test and Play Pcars:confused: Shrugggs i guess My old PC and PS4 is Good enough:yes:
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 15:24
Here's a closer look at TM's new wheel. I guess the chrome dials actually work. And there are two analog sticks, which I didn't notice in the other pictures. There's a close up that let's you see a little more of the innards. I don't know what the inside of the T300 and TX look like, but that looks like a single cylinder in this base, so it might actually be a DD wheel. :D Still can't tell if the rim is changeable, though. The collar looks like the releasable collar, but it doesn't look like it comes off. :confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74FtElq7mdA&feature=youtu.be
It May Be DD with a Gear to Connect it to Main Shaft... The Motor is Not in the Proper place for it to be 100% DD with No Gear or Belt.... Really Nice Looking Piece of Equipment though... Im just wondering what size the Rim Actually is.... Looks like the TM standard Small wheel Size... if thats the case they have spoiled what could be a Good wheel IMO... I Prefer Larger Rim Sizes its More acurate and True to RL.
Also Using Smaller Rims allow them to use less powerful FFB motors... The Bigger the Rim the More Leverage the user Has so a More powerful Motor is Requred to achieve Same FFB effect without over working the FFB Motor.
Here's a closer look at TM's new wheel. I guess the chrome dials actually work. And there are two analog sticks, which I didn't notice in the other pictures. There's a close up that let's you see a little more of the innards. I don't know what the inside of the T300 and TX look like, but that looks like a single cylinder in this base, so it might actually be a DD wheel. :D Still can't tell if the rim is changeable, though. The collar looks like the releasable collar, but it doesn't look like it comes off. :confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74FtElq7mdA&feature=youtu.be
I'm pretty sure it is. You can see the quick release in one of the videos.
GrimeyDog
23-05-2016, 15:27
I'm pretty sure it is. You can see the quick release in one of the videos.
Yup I clearly see it... It looks to be the Standard TM Screw on QR.
Since people have been quoting SRs and SKs, these are a couple FCMs I did the past week for my T300. Note that I have the 599XX rim which is a little more robust and slightly wider than the standard. So we have SKnee at around 0.75-0.80 and SR 0.40-0.45
The first one is at profiler at 60% with corrected line and then two 75% strength with corrected lines.
Just wanted to share these to confirm the T300 findings by morpwr and others.
233497233498233500233501233502233503
I have the same wheel on mine. Nice we are all getting the same numbers. We may have finally got this!
It May Be DD with a Gear to Connect it to Main Shaft... The Motor is Not in the Proper place for it to be 100% DD with No Gear or Belt.... Really Nice Looking Piece of Equipment though... Im just wondering what size the Rim Actually is.... Looks like the TM standard Small wheel Size... if thats the case they have spoiled what could be a Good wheel IMO... I Prefer Larger Rim Sizes its More acurate and True to RL.
Also Using Smaller Rims allow them to use less powerful FFB motors... The Bigger the Rim the More Leverage the user Has so a More powerful Motor is Requred to achieve Same FFB effect without over working the FFB Motor.
I agree. the smaller rims didn't bother me until I switched to Fanatec. When I first got it, the GT rim seemed too large, but now it feels just right.
I'm pretty sure it is. You can see the quick release in one of the videos.
Yup I clearly see it... It looks to be the Standard TM Screw on QR.
I thought so, too. But when I look at the video, it looks like a QR collar, but it also kind of looks fixed, like it's connected to the wheel at the top. Might just be the angle, though.
Hi guys, i have 2 requests.
I updated the baseline thread. I added bits to Steering Gain part and Game Force Feedback. Could you have a look? I wonder if i wrote some bollock. I also can't find the link where trustmaster recommend not going over 75% for the T300.
Another thing. Can someone with a T300 do the following. Run wheelcheck at 75% and 100% for Overall Strenght of all forces? When this is done, post the .CSV output here. I want to know if it's actually stronger or it just go to full torque faster?
It was the case for my G27 when going above 100%(It range from 0% to 150%). It only went to full torque faster. Full torque wasn't actually stronger.
Thanks,
Hi guys, i have 2 requests.
I updated the baseline thread. I added bits to Steering Gain part and Game Force Feedback. Could you have a look? I wonder if i wrote some bollock. I also can't find the link where trustmaster recommend not going over 75% for the T300.
Another thing. Can someone with a T300 do the following. Run wheelcheck at 75% and 100% for Overall Strenght of all forces? When this is done, post the .CSV output here. I want to know if it's actually stronger or it just go to full torque faster?
It was the case for my G27 when going above 100%(It range from 0% to 150%). It only went to full torque faster. Full torque wasn't actually stronger.
Thanks,
I couldn't get the files from the fcm but it definitely goes full torque a lot faster. Its actually a pretty steep increase from what you would see at 75. All tests run at 1080 degrees and spring and damper off. As for the link I think it was a reply from thrustmaster tech somebody posted when default ffb was a huge debate still. Its in the forum somewhere. From what I remember they recommended staying below 75 on the t300 and default 65 but actually recommended below 50 for the tx on xbox because the ffb is stronger. Not sure it was actually ever a formal post from them. I can say for sure I have never had good results with the ffb above 75 on the t300 and I just saw why.
t300 data here you go.
Your link doesn't work. At least on my end.lol Did you use the new scoops yet?
That's weird, I can open my link, if someone else can confirm it would be nice. I have been using very similar settings on and off. Like SK-0.80/SR-0.40, SK-0.30/SR-0.60 even. SK-0.75/SR-0.25. I m trying to get a more gradual increase in forces when turning, I still feel it jumps a little bit too fast from neutral to high. But it is pretty good overall.
Jezza819
23-05-2016, 22:17
Many of us are probably older than you would guess. Myself ,grimey and Haiden are considered the old guys around here and we are mid 40s.lol
I'll be 51 in August.
Making the jump from the previous 77 and 22 was weird feeling for me at first. I sort of thought this sucks until I drove it a little bit more. I was so used to all the extra useless weight from the low sr it felt off. You can really feel the progressive grip and brake feel with the higher scoops. I tried turning sr down and ended up putting it back where the fcm said.
driveclub007
23-05-2016, 23:28
THATS NOT OLD I WILL BE 57 IN JULY
That's weird, I can open my link, if someone else can confirm it would be nice. I have been using very similar settings on and off. Like SK-0.80/SR-0.40, SK-0.30/SR-0.60 even. SK-0.75/SR-0.25. I m trying to get a more gradual increase in forces when turning, I still feel it jumps a little bit too fast from neutral to high. But it is pretty good overall.
The link/file is fine. But you need a zip extractor to open it. The native archive tool in Windows doesn't open .rar files, which is probably why they can't open it.
Thanks for sharing konnos.
Did you also need to disable spring effects in the profiler to get these results?
Also, poirqc can't tell the difference between max output force with different gain settings using that exported data as it's all normalized. To get that info we need the raw test results.
To get that from FCM, you need to check the "Save test results to .csv file" option in the force test dialog when you run the actual test. Once the test is complete there should be a .csv file in your FCM folder prefixed Linear followed by the date and time.
t300 data here you go.
I couldn't get the files from the fcm but it definitely goes full torque a lot faster. Its actually a pretty steep increase from what you would see at 75. All tests run at 1080 degrees and spring and damper off. As for the link I think it was a reply from thrustmaster tech somebody posted when default ffb was a huge debate still. Its in the forum somewhere. From what I remember they recommended staying below 75 on the t300 and default 65 but actually recommended below 50 for the tx on xbox because the ffb is stronger. Not sure it was actually ever a formal post from them. I can say for sure I have never had good results with the ffb above 75 on the t300 and I just saw why.
Your link doesn't work. At least on my end.lol Did you use the new scoops yet?
That's weird, I can open my link, if someone else can confirm it would be nice. I have been using very similar settings on and off. Like SK-0.80/SR-0.40, SK-0.30/SR-0.60 even. SK-0.75/SR-0.25. I m trying to get a more gradual increase in forces when turning, I still feel it jumps a little bit too fast from neutral to high. But it is pretty good overall.
Making the jump from the previous 77 and 22 was weird feeling for me at first. I sort of thought this sucks until I drove it a little bit more. I was so used to all the extra useless weight from the low sr it felt off. You can really feel the progressive grip and brake feel with the higher scoops. I tried turning sr down and ended up putting it back where the fcm said.
The link/file is fine. But you need a zip extractor to open it. The native archive tool in Windows doesn't open .rar files, which is probably why they can't open it.
Thanks for the quick answers guys!
With that said, it seems FCM results output is different than Wheelcheck. The results table only write relative numbers. Wheelcheck output raw values. Can someone redo the test with wheelcheck? There's a link in the baseline tread.
Thanks,
Ninja'd by the master himself! :D
I m trying to get a more gradual increase in forces when turning, I still feel it jumps a little bit too fast from neutral to high. But it is pretty good overall.
Mz peaks very early on initial turn in. So if that's even remotely dominant in your car setup you will jump up to high force levels pretty quickly. If you want a more gradual rise in forces my suggestion would be to turn Mz down. There will obviously be tradeoffs though.
That's weird, I can open my link, if someone else can confirm it would be nice. I have been using very similar settings on and off. Like SK-0.80/SR-0.40, SK-0.30/SR-0.60 even. SK-0.75/SR-0.25. I m trying to get a more gradual increase in forces when turning, I still feel it jumps a little bit too fast from neutral to high. But it is pretty good overall.
Maybe just a small bit of DRF could help you. Move it slowly up until forces ramp up smooth enough on turn ins, but not too much so that is washes angles around TDC.
Cheers.
Maybe just a small bit of DRF could help you.
Something I noticed tonight with that. Drr set at 12 kills the gradual increase and a lot of the brake feel. 10 seemed to work really well. Nice and progressive and the brake feel is really obvious.
Thanks for sharing konnos.
Did you also need to disable spring effects in the profiler to get these results?
Also, poirqc can't tell the difference between max output force with different gain settings using that exported data as it's all normalized. To get that info we need the raw test results.
To get that from FCM, you need to check the "Save test results to .csv file" option in the force test dialog when you run the actual test. Once the test is complete there should be a .csv file in your FCM folder prefixed Linear followed by the date and time.
I did that and I couldn't find it after. Ill try again.
I did that and I couldn't find it after. Ill try again.
Whenever Wheelcheck runs a test, it should be saved in your documents folder:
C:\Users\morpwr\Documents\log2 201X-XX-XX XX-XX-XX.csv
Whenever Wheelcheck runs a test, it should be saved in your documents folder:
C:\Users\morpwr\Documents\log2 201X-XX-XX XX-XX-XX.csv
I used the fcm or is that what you mean?
I used the fcm or is that what you mean?
Nope, wheelcheck (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=228642&d=1456798338) is a different program. It was used when FCM wasn't out yet. We got data from there to feed the google sheet.
Nope, wheelcheck is a different program. It was used when FCM wasn't out yet. We got data from there to feed the google sheet.
I knew they where different I was just making sure. I just always used the fcm. So I cant do it from that?
You can do it with FCM. The output file should be written to the folder the application is in.
You can do it with FCM. The output file should be written to the folder the application is in.
233529
You can do it with FCM. The output file should be written to the folder the application is in.
Ill try to find it or ill do it again.lol
233529
I did that on both 75 and 100 tests.lol Just don't know where it went.
I did that on both 75 and 100 tests.lol Just don't know where it went.
I can't tell, i've been using data from wheelcheck since past October, when i build my PVC rig. I've never really used FCM build it test, beside early versions. I just import the files i already have.
PWMS seems to be the same as the Fanatec on Wheel Linearity Setting...i have this set at Default # Value.
I Have My PWMS set to 0.00 and i get if Not then its Very Close1 to 1 Movement with My Hands VS on Screen wheel Movement
I thought PWM &PWMS are more like the dri on Fanatec wheels. I have mine at dri 3 now after using fcm test. Before fcm tests I was using the PWM's. They both remove the extra drag the Fanatec belt drive has.
I'm just not sure if the PWM's affect my fcm test the same as dri does.
My wheel is definitely 1 to 1 with the screen wheel aslong as I calibrate my wheel to 900 ° and have my on wheel Sen set to off.
morpwr, I had a look at your settings and it has your ddr @0.06 and drf @0 19? Is this correct?
If you have similar numbers to konnos on fcm shouldn't you be at 0.13 or something?
Deadzone is my last adjustment and konnos fcm ddr looks like mine, between 0.13-0.15 but not sure if setting it that high in game would be correct.
gotdirt410sprintcar
24-05-2016, 03:58
I had mine last night around0. 16 too 0.18 drf ddr is 0.01 it felt ok back at 0.10 now drf. I did just changed my pwm - 03 pwms +03 feels ok not sure its like there is deadzone when i move the wheel fast
Lol 1.23.5 grimey mazda 5 laps bring it son lol.
I had mine last night around0. 16 too 0.18 drf ddr is 0.01 it felt ok back at 0.10 now drf. I did just changed my pwm - 03 pwms +03 feels ok not sure its like there is deadzone when i move the wheel fast
Lol 1.23.5 grimey mazda 5 laps bring it son lol.
0.016 or 0.16?
Yikes having functional ffb is a wonderful thing, just spent another six hours tweaking and I actually can measure it now. What I used to think was ffb was nothing more than over saturation even when times improved by accident or mistake.
I'm def clueing in to the fact that "good ffb" is subjective.
Having found a recipe for the mix, thanks to the many here who have devoted so much time in research and then sharing those results, all night I've been able to play with the settings and have confidence in the adjustments.
I just ran 5 laps in a row with sub 9:00 min times in the community Nurburgring race and I feel like I can def hit the low 8:50's which for me is hot "stuff". That's almost a full half minute faster than my best times last week and I have you guys to thank for making the sim enjoyable again, well done.
I can't tell, i've been using data from wheelcheck since past October, when i build my PVC rig. I've never really used FCM build it test, beside early versions. I just import the files i already have.
Ok so maybe I'm a dummy but tonight's the first time I reread your ffb primer and mostly grasped the content, I guess it was just so many words without having the context of a functional understanding of how it all functions together to create a system. I had bits and pieces and no matter how many times I made something work as far as the ffb felt it just didn't come together for me.
Right now I have a far greater appreciation for the work behind all those varied concepts, well done.
I thought PWM &PWMS are more like the dri on Fanatec wheels. I have mine at dri 3 now after using fcm test. Before fcm tests I was using the PWM's. They both remove the extra drag the Fanatec belt drive has.
I'm just not sure if the PWM's affect my fcm test the same as dri does.
My wheel is definitely 1 to 1 with the screen wheel aslong as I calibrate my wheel to 900 ° and have my on wheel Sen set to off.
PWM(S) is only applied in pCars. It has a similar purpose to DRI. You use either one. If i'm not mistaken, DRI can only remove drag. PWM(S) can remove or add drag depending on usage.
morpwr, I had a look at your settings and it has your ddr @0.06 and drf @0 19? Is this correct?
If you have similar numbers to konnos on fcm shouldn't you be at 0.13 or something?
Deadzone is my last adjustment and konnos fcm ddr looks like mine, between 0.13-0.15 but not sure if setting it that high in game would be correct.
I am actually at .10 for ddr right now. I didn't update the old settings yet because I wanted to make sure the new ones were actually better before I did. The fcm gave me .12 for ddr so yes I'm the same as konnos for numbers. The fcm gave pretty much identical results to both of us. The only thing I found playing around last night was ddr at .12 you lose a lot of the initial pull on turning and the progressive brake feel. .10 felt better to me. Ill have to get to updating the setting tonight.
I am actually at .10 for ddr right now. I didn't update the old settings yet because I wanted to make sure the new ones were actually better before I did. The fcm gave me .12 for ddr so yes I'm the same as konnos for numbers. The fcm gave pretty much identical results to both of us. The only thing I found playing around last night was ddr at .12 you lose a lot of the initial pull on turning and the progressive brake feel. .10 felt better to me. Ill have to get to updating the setting tonight.
And drf ? 0.19 or 0.019 ?
PWM(S) is only applied in pCars. It has a similar purpose to DRI. You use either one. If i'm not mistaken, DRI can only remove drag. PWM(S) can remove or add drag depending on usage.
The PWM method also gives you more precision with regard to how much drag you remove or add. With DRI, you have to choose one of the preset values.
And drf ? 0.19 or 0.019 ?
Ill have to check I don't remember where I ended up. Drf definitely wouldn't be .19. Did I miss a zero?
Ill have to check I don't remember where I ended up. Drf definitely wouldn't be .19. Did I miss a zero?
Maybe ;-)
And drf ? 0.19 or 0.019 ?
It's probably 0,019. The maximum value is 0,10.
Wheelcheck csvs, 2 for 75% profile strength and 2 for 100%
I don't use any of the forces in the Thrustmaster profiler, only 100% Constant Force.
Wheelcheck csvs, 2 for 75% profile strength and 2 for 100%
I don't use any of the forces in the Thrustmaster profiler, only 100% Constant Force.
You re uploaded the first archive. ;)
I thought PWM &PWMS are more like the dri on Fanatec wheels. I have mine at dri 3 now after using fcm test. Before fcm tests I was using the PWM's. They both remove the extra drag the Fanatec belt drive has.
I'm just not sure if the PWM's affect my fcm test the same as dri does.
My wheel is definitely 1 to 1 with the screen wheel aslong as I calibrate my wheel to 900 ° and have my on wheel Sen set to off.
Have you ran the FCM both with and without DRI on? I have a CSW-v2, so I can't run the FCM on it. The test doesn't work properly with that wheel, so I ran it in WheelCheck and them imported the results. But I ran it with DRI=OFF. I use PWM to eliminate drag in PCars, so I didn't think to run the test with DRI=3 (what I using before switching to the PWM method). I'm curious to know if there's a significant different in the results when running the test with DRI enabled. If you've run it both ways, let me know.
Have you ran the FCM both with and without DRI on? I have a CSW-v2, so I can't run the FCM on it. The test doesn't work properly with that wheel, so I ran it in WheelCheck and them imported the results. But I ran it with DRI=OFF. I use PWM to eliminate drag in PCars, so I didn't think to run the test with DRI=3 (what I using before switching to the PWM method). I'm curious to know if there's a significant different in the results when running the test with DRI enabled. If you've run it both ways, let me know.
Jack posted the results in his thread.
Jack posted the results in his thread.
Thanks! His results basically match where I am now with Scoops disabled. I think I'm going to try raising RAB back to 0.10. I have it at 0.08 now, but disabling the Scoops gives me a much tighter/firmer wheel, so I'm wondering if the new setting could tolerate a little more RAB.
Oh my god, what a noob...
Here are the correct ones...
Have you ran the FCM both with and without DRI on? I have a CSW-v2, so I can't run the FCM on it. The test doesn't work properly with that wheel, so I ran it in WheelCheck and them imported the results. But I ran it with DRI=OFF. I use PWM to eliminate drag in PCars, so I didn't think to run the test with DRI=3 (what I using before switching to the PWM method). I'm curious to know if there's a significant different in the results when running the test with DRI enabled. If you've run it both ways, let me know.
Yes, without Dri my wheel was 0.9989 linear without any scoops just deadzone and with dri 3 my wheel went to need sr 0.80 and sk 0.27 to get to 0.9970.
Sorry I can't remember what the linear line was at the start but I think it was.0.9930 before scoops.
But yeah there was a big change to the way the graph looked with and without Dri.
That's why I've changed my settings to use dri 3 instead of PWM's because I don't know if it will affect my Linearity the same as dri.
gotdirt410sprintcar
25-05-2016, 02:12
0.016 or 0.16?
just 16 clicks
Ok so again I've lost nearly all ffb without changing any settings, it's pretty much just a flat line in the window that will raise or lower depending on right or left turn, rumbles from curbs still show as expected but it's as if the wheel is no longer connected directly to anything, yes the car will turn and there is weight but going to full caster settings adds no weight as an example.
This happened as I switched tracks, not even a thing where I was in the settings which makes it all the more problematic.
For giggles I'm going to do some laps in the lotus type 98 on Donnington and compare telemetry to GrimeyDog's recent video. Talk about some major league bs going on I tell ya!
This has happened before but this time it's a fresh install, all 27 gigs were deleted and downloaded again this past weekend.
Ok so again I've lost nearly all ffb without changing any settings, it's pretty much just a flat line in the window that will raise or lower depending on right or left turn, rumbles from curbs still show as expected but it's as if the wheel is no longer connected directly to anything, yes the car will turn and there is weight but going to full caster settings adds no weight as an example.
This happened as I switched tracks, not even a thing where I was in the settings which makes it all the more problematic.
For giggles I'm going to do some laps in the lotus type 98 on Donnington and compare telemetry to GrimeyDog's recent video. Talk about some major league bs going on I tell ya!
This has happened before but this time it's a fresh install, all 27 gigs were deleted and downloaded again this past weekend.
I used to lose FFB between sessions very rarely, like one session start a month. I recently did a reinstall, and now I get FFB loss just about once every other gaming day.
gotdirt410sprintcar
25-05-2016, 04:23
It's probably 0,019. The maximum value is 0,10.
yeah its 0,10 but ten spots between numbers so there is 100 but yes 0,10 plus the one that don't move around 006 hehe
So I downloaded and ran FCM2, here are my results, can anyone interpret for me?
233557233558
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 06:25
Ok so again I've lost nearly all ffb without changing any settings, it's pretty much just a flat line in the window that will raise or lower depending on right or left turn, rumbles from curbs still show as expected but it's as if the wheel is no longer connected directly to anything, yes the car will turn and there is weight but going to full caster settings adds no weight as an example.
This happened as I switched tracks, not even a thing where I was in the settings which makes it all the more problematic.
For giggles I'm going to do some laps in the lotus type 98 on Donnington and compare telemetry to GrimeyDog's recent video. Talk about some major league bs going on I tell ya!
This has happened before but this time it's a fresh install, all 27 gigs were deleted and downloaded again this past weekend.
That Happens to Me some times... I just exit the Race to Main menu and Reload...that usually solves the issue.
That Happebs to Me some times... I just exit the Race to Main menu and Reload...that usually solves the issue.
Nothing seemed to be helping so I pulled the wheel and hooked up to the pc and it was mostly unresponsive, inputs worked but nothing in the test forces screen did a thing.
I read online that using a hub wasn't the best thing to be doing and now that I think on it despite it being a good self powered hub it doesn't really charge the controller all that well, so maybe its been bleeding off ffb output and causing the wheel to overheat maybe?
I set the fans to run and left it for a bit and it started working correctly again so I'll run the wheel off the ps4 usb and see if it works better.
So I downloaded and ran FCM2, here are my results, can anyone interpret for me?
Not much to interpret, that's how my T300 looks as well. Just one thing, I would raise DeadzoneRRange from 0.03 to like 0.06 or 0.08
The graph suggests 0.08 should be used, but go slightly lower, that's why I said 0.06
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 10:39
My DRR at 0.09 By Mistake and it felt Horrible My Normal DRR is 0.05!!! at 0.09 All My Turns were late because the wheel seemed to have extra weight at My optimal turning angle.... I have developed Muscle Memory and expectations of how the wheel should feel when turning in certain types of Corners...Im really Liking TF/RAC 75!!!
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 10:45
Nothing seemed to be helping so I pulled the wheel and hooked up to the pc and it was mostly unresponsive, inputs worked but nothing in the test forces screen did a thing.
I read online that using a hub wasn't the best thing to be doing and now that I think on it despite it being a good self powered hub it doesn't really charge the controller all that well, so maybe its been bleeding off ffb output and causing the wheel to overheat maybe?
I set the fans to run and left it for a bit and it started working correctly again so I'll run the wheel off the ps4 usb and see if it works better.
I also use a 4 port powered usb Hub...But I Have the wheel plugged into the1st PS4 usb port and the Hub in the 2nd PS4 usb port... I use the Hub to run My Key board, Head set and Charge the PS4 contoler... works Great and i have Had No problems using it like that.... But yes i believe the wheel should be plugged directly into the PS4 the other stuff dont Seem to matter if its plugged into a Hub.
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 10:56
Ok so again I've lost nearly all ffb without changing any settings, it's pretty much just a flat line in the window that will raise or lower depending on right or left turn, rumbles from curbs still show as expected but it's as if the wheel is no longer connected directly to anything, yes the car will turn and there is weight but going to full caster settings adds no weight as an example.
This happened as I switched tracks, not even a thing where I was in the settings which makes it all the more problematic.
For giggles I'm going to do some laps in the lotus type 98 on Donnington and compare telemetry to GrimeyDog's recent video. Talk about some major league bs going on I tell ya!
This has happened before but this time it's a fresh install, all 27 gigs were deleted and downloaded again this past weekend.
When you do your Test Laps Post the Video... and could you give a description of the FFB and how it felt... Thats always Good info that can used to help refine the Tweek.
This will be a Great comparison because we use different wheels.
I have a unpowered 4 port hub powering my wheel , headset , keyboard , usb thumbdrive and have one left on the ps4 for psvr when it gets here .
I tried my wheel directly on the ps4 to see if there was any difference and it felt the same .
My hub is unpowered and and has no name on it , my mother in law gave it to me ,lol , works absolutely perfectly .
Nothing seemed to be helping so I pulled the wheel and hooked up to the pc and it was mostly unresponsive, inputs worked but nothing in the test forces screen did a thing.
I read online that using a hub wasn't the best thing to be doing and now that I think on it despite it being a good self powered hub it doesn't really charge the controller all that well, so maybe its been bleeding off ffb output and causing the wheel to overheat maybe?
I set the fans to run and left it for a bit and it started working correctly again so I'll run the wheel off the ps4 usb and see if it works better.
the wheel is supposed to be plugged in directly not through a hub. That can cause issues. Do you have the latest firmware for the wheel and do you have the fan turned on all the time. If you don't id turn it on so it runs all the time. Going into safe mode will definitely make you lose most of the ffb. Also if you use sleep mode on the ps4 you have to disable it for pcars it causes problems with the wheel and last make sure you plug the wheel in before you turn the ps4 on.
Not much to interpret, that's how my T300 looks as well. Just one thing, I would raise DeadzoneRRange from 0.03 to like 0.06 or 0.08
The graph suggests 0.08 should be used, but go slightly lower, that's why I said 0.06
That's weird the deadzone is so low when everything else looks like ours.
Fight-Test
25-05-2016, 11:29
Use a Non-Powered hub if u are gonna plug the wheel in the hub. Will save you alot of issues.
I have a unpowered 4 port hub powering my wheel , headset , keyboard , usb thumbdrive and have one left on the ps4 for psvr when it gets here .
I tried my wheel directly on the ps4 to see if there was any difference and it felt the same .
My hub is unpowered and and has no name on it , my mother in law gave it to me ,lol , works absolutely perfectly .
It will work the same but can cause issues. Not saying you cant but they don't recommend it.
Nothing seemed to be helping so I pulled the wheel and hooked up to the pc and it was mostly unresponsive, inputs worked but nothing in the test forces screen did a thing.
I read online that using a hub wasn't the best thing to be doing and now that I think on it despite it being a good self powered hub it doesn't really charge the controller all that well, so maybe its been bleeding off ffb output and causing the wheel to overheat maybe?
I set the fans to run and left it for a bit and it started working correctly again so I'll run the wheel off the ps4 usb and see if it works better.
I use this unpowered HUB with no problem. It plugs directly into the PS4's two ports. The first port is a passthrough, which preserves the USB 3.0, and that's what I plug the wheel into. The other four ports are splitting/sharing the PS4's second USB port.
http://www.amazon.com/Charger-Controller-Splitter-Connector-Playstation-PS4/dp/B00QV3ZC44?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00
There's nothing wrong with hubs, as long as you don't draw too much current from the port. Powered hub are useful when using an extension cord that is too long, where current may attenuate too much.
When encountering problems, it's better to put the hub aside, but under normal operation, it's ok to use one(been doing it since launch)
That's weird the deadzone is so low when everything else looks like ours.
It is because he has a small bump early on, showing that the wheel did move, but then in the next steps it didn't move. I had that too a couple of times, and because it moved early once, it lowered my deadzone.
Fight-Test
25-05-2016, 13:43
The ps4 cycles power to usb ports for security reasons every so often. This is why a powered Hub on ps4 is a big issue. Some guys had luck not plugging the usb hub in the power outlet but mine won't send signal when powered off. Their were a few brands that guys were not having issues with but most were. I have 2 powered hubs and both cut out. My $5 non powered has never had a issue. There is a thread here with all the hubs that work listed. Obviously this is a ps4 specific issue.
Fight-Test
25-05-2016, 13:46
There's nothing wrong with hubs, as long as you don't draw too much current from the port. Powered hub are useful when using an extension cord that is too long, where current may attenuate too much.
When encountering problems, it's better to put the hub aside, but under normal operation, it's ok to use one(been doing it since launch)
This is a specific issue to ps4. Most powered hubs cause issue.
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 14:33
The ps4 cycles power to usb ports for security reasons every so often. This is why a powered Hub on ps4 is a big issue. Some guys had luck not plugging the usb hub in the power outlet but mine won't send signal when powered off. Their were a few brands that guys were not having issues with but most were. I have 2 powered hubs and both cut out. My $5 non powered has never had a issue. There is a thread here with all the hubs that work listed. Obviously this is a ps4 specific issue.
I bought my powerd 4 usb hub from radio shack... its been working very well.
Made some adjustments to the FFB last night. I addition to disabling the Scoops, I Lowered RAB to 0.06, and I like the feel a lot. Here's an FFB test at Donington GP. I like the waveform, constantly in flux, and very little leveling in high-speed corners. I don't mean clipping style leveling. I mean the type of leveling that results from higher saturation, which keeps the waveform from dropping below a certain level in high speed corners. IMO, this is one of the things that can diminish the dynamic cornering feel. I like to see a fair amount of fluctuation in the waveform during cornering, because I think it represents the changing levels of grip. I believe the more normalized/uniform the waveform pattern looks in high speed corners, the less dynamic the feedback, at least where grip is concerned. Again, just my opinion.
Anyway...I don't drive the track often, so please excuse the driving--especially the first lap; I was watching the telemetry and my tires were a little worn. :). I also don't use KERS or DRS when testing, so this is just a straight drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xbbLtXc0Q
I'll post a few more soon, probably all Formula A. Then I'll move on to some other cars. :)
RobboCod
25-05-2016, 17:17
the wheel is supposed to be plugged in directly not through a hub. That can cause issues. Do you have the latest firmware for the wheel and do you have the fan turned on all the time. If you don't id turn it on so it runs all the time. Going into safe mode will definitely make you lose most of the ffb. Also if you use sleep mode on the ps4 you have to disable it for pcars it causes problems with the wheel and last make sure you plug the wheel in before you turn the ps4 on.
I have been plugging in the wheel USB after the ps4 has booted all this time. Touch wood wheel bugs are few and far between for me. I'm assuming the wheels power cord can be used in an extension lead without detriment to ffb?
I have been plugging in the wheel USB after the ps4 has booted all this time. Touch wood wheel bugs are few and far between for me. I'm assuming the wheels power cord can be used in an extension lead without detriment to ffb?
I've forgotten to plug my wheel in before turning the console on many times. For a while, whenever it happened I was expecting to have problem in-game, but it's never gave me any issues. As long as I plug it in before the starting the game.
That being said... Fanatec wheels aren't really PS4 compatible, and the console doesn't recognize them outside of the game anyway. That might be why it hasn't given me any issues.
RobboCod
25-05-2016, 17:37
I've forgotten to plug my wheel in before turning the console on many times. For a while, whenever it happened I was expecting to have problem in-game, but it's never gave me any issues. As long as I plug it in before the starting the game.
That being said... Fanatec wheels aren't really PS4 compatible, and the console doesn't recognize them outside of the game anyway. That might be why it hasn't given me any issues.
I get you there. I think due to the game's initial problems and then all the stuff with ffb tinkering I don't want to think something simple like when to power on the wheel is going to negatively affect the ffb etc.
I get you there. I think due to the game's initial problems and then all the stuff with ffb tinkering I don't want to think something simple like when to power on the wheel is going to negatively affect the ffb etc.
I think it was thrustmaster trying to eliminate issues. Ive just got in the habit of doing it that way. Plug the wheel in turn on the ps4 and tablet and wait for everything to turn on.
RobboCod
25-05-2016, 19:46
I think it was thrustmaster trying to eliminate issues. Ive just got in the habit of doing it that way. Plug the wheel in turn on the ps4 and tablet and wait for everything to turn on.
Well it obviously isn't a bad habit. By the way, I've been running practice laps at Imola with your updated settings and just improved half a second on my best lap. A 1:52.45 in the Vantage GT4. Nothing special for the better drivers I'm sure but I'm pleased I'm improving. I upped the throttle and brake sensitivities to 85 as I had them quite low. Something else I've never really played with.
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 20:09
Made some adjustments to the FFB last night. I addition to disabling the Scoops, I Lowered RAB to 0.06, and I like the feel a lot. Here's an FFB test at Donington GP. I like the waveform, constantly in flux, and very little leveling in high-speed corners. I don't mean clipping style leveling. I mean the type of leveling that results from higher saturation, which keeps the waveform from dropping below a certain level in high speed corners. IMO, this is one of the things that can diminish the dynamic cornering feel. I like to see a fair amount of fluctuation in the waveform during cornering, because I think it represents the changing levels of grip. I believe the more normalized/uniform the waveform pattern looks in high speed corners, the less dynamic the feedback, at least where grip is concerned. Again, just my opinion.
Anyway...I don't drive the track often, so please excuse the driving--especially the first lap; I was watching the telemetry and my tires were a little worn. :). I also don't use KERS or DRS when testing, so this is just a straight drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xbbLtXc0Q
I'll post a few more soon, probably all Formula A. Then I'll move on to some other cars. :)
I Agree...I have also been Testing My Latest settings TF/RAC 75 Scoops vs No Scoops...Scoops turned off Feels Every bit as Good as it does with Scoops on...What i noticed with My settings and Scoops off is the feel is Much More Linear than it is with Scoops on ... When I have Scoops off i have to Lower the on wheel FFB to 65 because the added Linearity of the Scoops being Off seems to Add extra weight and power to the wheel... other than Lowering the on wheel FFB all other settings remain the same.
I Agree...I have also been Testing My Latest settings TF/RAC 75 Scoops vs No Scoops...Scoops turned off Feels Every bit as Good as it does with Scoops on...What i noticed with My settings and Scoops off is the feel is Much More Linear than it is with Scoops on ... When I have Scoops off i have to Lower the on wheel FFB to 65 because the added Linearity of the Scoops being Off seems to Add extra weight and power to the wheel... other than Lowering the on wheel FFB all other settings remain the same.
Same here I was playing with the correct scoops last night. It seems the 75ffb scoops work much better feel wise at lower 68 ffb level. If I use the matched ffb and scoops the low forces seem to ramp up way to quick and you lose most of the grip/progressive feel although some less important forces get better. Basically you just get a heavy wheel fast. So off to testing no scoops.
I Agree...I have also been Testing My Latest settings TF/RAC 75 Scoops vs No Scoops...Scoops turned off Feels Every bit as Good as it does with Scoops on...What i noticed with My settings and Scoops off is the feel is Much More Linear than it is with Scoops on ... When I have Scoops off i have to Lower the on wheel FFB to 65 because the added Linearity of the Scoops being Off seems to Add extra weight and power to the wheel... other than Lowering the on wheel FFB all other settings remain the same.
Yeah... the FCM showed the wheel being near linear. For the CSW-v2 with DRI=Off, any Scoop setting would lower the force curve, so disabling it is definitely going to make the wheel feel heavier. Not sure whether I'll lower FF or RAG to compensate. That video was with FF=100, RAG=1.50. The wheel is stronger, but the dynamic range seems to still be there. I'll know for sure when I test it on Silverstone. The thing is, I'm not sure the additional weight is bad. It doesn't feel like it's more than the CSW-v2 can handle, I want to get the most out of the wheel. I think I've been babying it. If I tone this new tune down, I don't think it will be by much.
GrimeyDog
25-05-2016, 21:46
Im starting to wonder if No scoop may Give a more pure feel of the Road and have more Purity of FFB Feel than Scoops on... Even though scoops are Good and i set them for My personal liking its still added processing before the FFB reaches the wheel:confused:.
I hve gotten used to the subtle reductions in wheel weight the scoops provide....To Tell the truth when i Lower the on Wheel FFB to 65 the FFB Feel is pretty much identical... The only Notable difference is the Scoops Off setting has a Constant wheel weight to it while Scoops on(68/24) the wheel weight will slightly vary in and out of corners.
Edit: the FFB Paradox is a Wrap:yes: The FFB is sooo Well understood right Now that I cant believe it was ever hard:confused: I have had the same tweek method since the game launched... I can not believe that i Over looked the fact that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale... That was the key that unlocked the FFB Paradox for me:yes:
At this point i can create any FFB feel that i like Heavy, Lighter, Softer,Sharper and that's all just a matter of adding smoothing and damping to the in Car settings.
Ive decided that im just going to Leave the scoops as they are and just race a bit... maybe make a few suspension tweeks... maybe even add some damping, Smoothing Per car to refine the FFB a tad.... Hmmmm... Well at least for now until Assetto Corsa comes out... Then i can compare in Console the difference between the 2...on PC Assetto Corsa seems to have no scoop settings... i say this because the FFB is progressive the more you turn the wheel closer to lock the more resistance it gives...yes Assetto Corsa the FFB it will get lighter While turning if you pull a wheel off the ground or Lose grip but that feels more like a bleed off thing not scoops... Pcars with scoops off gives close to that feel but the FFB is No where near as Progressive it gets strong real quick and thats just that... still feels great though
It will work the same but can cause issues. Not saying you cant but they don't recommend it.
Is that just a Thrustmaster recommendation? Or for all wheels in general because I haven't read anything for Fanatec and have had no issues in like 300hrs.
The ps4 cycles power to usb ports for security reasons every so often. This is why a powered Hub on ps4 is a big issue. Some guys had luck not plugging the usb hub in the power outlet but mine won't send signal when powered off. Their were a few brands that guys were not having issues with but most were. I have 2 powered hubs and both cut out. My $5 non powered has never had a issue. There is a thread here with all the hubs that work listed. Obviously this is a ps4 specific issue.
Nice, thanks, didn't know this information.
Is that just a Thrustmaster recommendation? Or for all wheels in general because I haven't read anything for Fanatec and have had no issues in like 300hrs.
Just thrustmaster
Im starting to wonder if No scoop may Give a more pure feel of the Road and have more Purity of FFB Feel than Scoops on... Even though scoops are Good and i set them for My personal liking its still added processing before the FFB reaches the wheel:confused:.
I hve gotten used to the subtle reductions in wheel weight the scoops provide....To Tell the truth when i Lower the on Wheel FFB to 65 the FFB Feel is pretty much identical... The only Notable difference is the Scoops Off setting has a Constant wheel weight to it while Scoops on(68/24) the wheel weight will slightly vary in and out of corners.
Edit: the FFB Paradox is a Wrap:yes: The FFB is sooo Well understood right Now that I cant believe it was ever hard:confused: I have had the same tweek method since the game launched... I can not believe that i Over looked the fact that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale... That was the key that unlocked the FFB Paradox for me:yes:
At this point i can create any FFB feel that i like Heavy, Lighter, Softer,Sharper and that's all just a matter of adding smoothing and damping to the in Car settings.
Ive decided that im just going to Leave the scoops as they are and just race a bit... maybe make a few suspension tweeks... maybe even add some damping, Smoothing Per car to refine the FFB a tad.... Hmmmm... Well at least for now until Assetto Corsa comes out... Then i can compare in Console the difference between the 2...on PC Assetto Corsa seems to have no scoop settings... i say this because the FFB is progressive the more you turn the wheel closer to lock the more resistance it gives...yes Assetto Corsa the FFB it will get lighter While turning if you pull a wheel off the ground or Lose grip but that feels more like a bleed off thing not scoops... Pcars with scoops off gives close to that feel but the FFB is No where near as Progressive it gets strong real quick and thats just that... still feels great though
After look at the graph in the FCM (mine and others) and seeing how Scoops affect the curve, I think it's more about achieving linearity. The CSW-v2 is almost linear to start. But the T300 graphs I saw were curving upward away from the linear line and needs Scoops to bring the curve back down. So, in the case of the T300, and wheels with similar default curves, the pure feel without Scoops adjusting the curve wouldn't be ideal at all. If your default curve is that far off, you pretty much have to use Scoops.
Edit: If you haven't run the tool, you should. Seeing a visual representation of the curve, and how Scoops affect it, is very helpful. Even if you decide to keep using them. Being able to see the affect of your settings, helps dial them in.
After look at the graph in the FCM (mine and others) and seeing how Scoops affect the curve, I think it's more about achieving linearity. The CSW-v2 is almost linear to start. But the T300 graphs I saw were curving upward away from the linear line and needs Scoops to bring the curve back down. So, in the case of the T300, and wheels with similar default curves, the pure feel without Scoops adjusting the curve wouldn't be ideal at all. If your default curve is that far off, you pretty much have to use Scoops.
Edit: If you haven't run the tool, you should. Seeing a visual representation of the curve, and how Scoops affect it, is very helpful. Even if you decide to keep using them. Being able to see the affect of your settings, helps dial them in.
You are correct about the t300. No scoops definitely is not ideal.lol Tried it last night.
After look at the graph in the FCM (mine and others) and seeing how Scoops affect the curve, I think it's more about achieving linearity. The CSW-v2 is almost linear to start. But the T300 graphs I saw were curving upward away from the linear line and needs Scoops to bring the curve back down. So, in the case of the T300, and wheels with similar default curves, the pure feel without Scoops adjusting the curve wouldn't be ideal at all. If your default curve is that far off, you pretty much have to use Scoops.
Edit: If you haven't run the tool, you should. Seeing a visual representation of the curve, and how Scoops affect it, is very helpful. Even if you decide to keep using them. Being able to see the affect of your settings, helps dial them in.
Have you seen Jack's graph with dri 3 ? Scoops are needed to bring the line back to linear , Jack doesn't show the graph before scoops just after adjustment . Im sure PWM is affecting the graph the same way . My wheel with dri off was straight but with dri 3 looked kinda like the T300 graph .
This is my T300 599XX rim FFB graph. There is the 50%, 60%, 75% and 100% line all in one graph to see what forces are actually felt in numbers. You may linearise the wheel output, but some seem to forget that you are losing in power (a little, not as much as I thought) and also in useable power (at lower % the deadzone increases, so you have less forces to play with). This was done from wheelcheck, which provides numbers and then into excel to create the lines.
GrimeyDog
26-05-2016, 13:26
After look at the graph in the FCM (mine and others) and seeing how Scoops affect the curve, I think it's more about achieving linearity. The CSW-v2 is almost linear to start. But the T300 graphs I saw were curving upward away from the linear line and needs Scoops to bring the curve back down. So, in the case of the T300, and wheels with similar default curves, the pure feel without Scoops adjusting the curve wouldn't be ideal at all. If your default curve is that far off, you pretty much have to use Scoops.
Edit: If you haven't run the tool, you should. Seeing a visual representation of the curve, and how Scoops affect it, is very helpful. Even if you decide to keep using them. Being able to see the affect of your settings, helps dial them in.
I have tried the Graphs and such but at the end of the day i readjust for best feel and the line ends up back to where it was anyway... But as you said the V2 is pretty Linear without major adjustments... I always keep the Dri/Spr/Dpr settings at Default values....Maybe i will try it again now that i have My Final Tweek Maybe i can Refine the FFB Feel even more???...but as it is im Very happy with the FFB feel Now.
GrimeyDog
26-05-2016, 14:11
This is my T300 599XX rim FFB graph. There is the 50%, 60%, 75% and 100% line all in one graph to see what forces are actually felt in numbers. You may linearise the wheel output, but some seem to forget that you are losing in power (a little, not as much as I thought) and also in useable power (at lower % the deadzone increases, so you have less forces to play with). This was done from wheelcheck, which provides numbers and then into excel to create the lines.
Im Going to try this with the Tx wheel... I just have to get un lazy and hook it back up.
I have tried the Graphs and such but at the end of the day i readjust for best feel and the line ends up back to where it was anyway... But as you said the V2 is pretty Linear without major adjustments... I always keep the Dri/Spr/Dpr settings at Default values....Maybe i will try it again now that i have My Final Tweek Maybe i can Refine the FFB Feel even more???...but as it is im Very happy with the FFB feel Now.
I was happy with mine, too. Seeing the graph changed my mind, though. If you're not running any DRI @ the wheel, scoops pull the CSW-v2's already linear curve way below its default force range. Looking at the two graphs, Scoops vs. No Scoops, I also think Scoops are partly to blame for the diminished/nonexistent progressive cornering feel. Because, depending on where you set the Knee, the force progression happens much quicker in the upper range, too quick to be felt. The more linear the curve, the slower the progression up the scale.
GrimeyDog
26-05-2016, 15:00
I was happy with mine, too. Seeing the graph changed my mind, though. If you're not running any DRI @ the wheel, scoops pull the CSW-v2's already linear curve way below its default force range. Looking at the two graphs, Scoops vs. No Scoops, I also think Scoops are partly to blame for the diminished/nonexistent progressive cornering feel. Because, depending on where you set the Knee, the force progression happens much quicker in the upper range, too quick to be felt. The more linear the curve, the slower the progression up the scale.
Yes i also Noticed No Scooos gave a Better Progressive Feel... But im Not sure Pcars was designed to have that... I have searched Long and Hard trying to Create that progerssive Feel in Pcars with No Success... I dont think its programmed into the game physics.
Pcars FFB build up is 1 , 5, 10 it doesnt Happen in fine enough increments for it to be truely progressive.... But it still feels great...its sort of like you have power assisted steering... the Constant forces stay Level and even. (but you know thats Minus the FFB bleed of from effects and such)
I was happy with mine, too. Seeing the graph changed my mind, though. If you're not running any DRI @ the wheel, scoops pull the CSW-v2's already linear curve way below its default force range. Looking at the two graphs, Scoops vs. No Scoops, I also think Scoops are partly to blame for the diminished/nonexistent progressive cornering feel. Because, depending on where you set the Knee, the force progression happens much quicker in the upper range, too quick to be felt. The more linear the curve, the slower the progression up the scale.
I played with scoops a lot last night. Sr will do the same thing when set too low. Even one number for me and the progressive feel just went immediately heavy on cornering and braking. Same thing when I tried sk lower. Strange thing is I'm running the scoops that get calculated for 75ffb at 68 and its a completely better feel. If I align the ffb master and calculated scoops its just too heavy way too fast. Right now I'm pretty happy with the way it feels even on cold tires you can feel grip and it ramps up as they warm up. No more ice feeling when they are cold.
Jack Spade
26-05-2016, 16:17
CSW v2 linearity
1. Dri=off - (almost) linear response, (almost) no scoop required, but drag on the wheel
2. Dri=3 - non linear response, scoop required, no drag on the wheel
233608
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Edit: Scoop Settings here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1277300&viewfull=1#post1277300
CSW v2 linearity
1. Dri=off - (almost) linear response, (almost) no scoop required, but drag on the wheel
2. Dri=3 - non linear response, scoop required, no drag on the wheel
Edit: Scoop Settings here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1277300&viewfull=1#post1277300
Do you know how the PWM settings affect the curve in-game? You can run WheelCheck with DRI on, but PWM settings are in-game. What happens to the linear curve when the PWM settings are applied to remove the drag?
GrimeyDog
26-05-2016, 17:45
I played with scoops a lot last night. Sr will do the same thing when set too low. Even one number for me and the progressive feel just went immediately heavy on cornering and braking. Same thing when I tried sk lower. Strange thing is I'm running the scoops that get calculated for 75ffb at 68 and its a completely better feel. If I align the ffb master and calculated scoops its just too heavy way too fast. Right now I'm pretty happy with the way it feels even on cold tires you can feel grip and it ramps up as they warm up. No more ice feeling when they are cold.
Thats the thing... The Calculators say 1 thing but the end result is how it feels to you the Human user... Mathematical Equations/ A.I has Not progressed to that level yet and probably Never will in this field because Nothing can Replace the Natural Human Sence of Touch and Feel.
Jack Spade
26-05-2016, 17:50
Do you know how the PWM settings affect the curve in-game? You can run WheelCheck with DRI on, but PWM settings are in-game. What happens to the linear curve when the PWM settings are applied to remove the drag?
Honestly I donīt know, but I reckon PWM affects the curve similar Dri=3, in this case if "drag" as such is the key or trick of Fanatec to achieve a linear FFB
response. Unfortunately we donīt have any tool to work it out in game other than our hands. The CSW v2 Scoop values require to compensate the loss of
force with SG. TF / Scales are not an option if you want to stay away from saturation prior processing, but SG is scaling non linear so you end up with
a non linear curve again, probably not far away where you`ve been before - a dilemma.
I have decided to use PWM+PWMS and Dri=off, no Scoops and SG @ 105 which is almost linear. If you look at my global setting suggestions though
different settings but donīt feel much apart from each other.
BTW a compromise setting of a little bit of drag and lower Scoop and compensating values also is thinkable.
I'll be 51 in August.
Finally someone close to the same age! My daughter thought it very amusing that last year I started qualifying for "senior" discounts at age 55.
My baby daughter turns 26 this year and my eldest 36, with the other 3 at almost exactly 2.5 years in between. There were two times in the 80's where I literally screwed myself out of a car seat. Back then the 76 TransAm was our second car, right up till the second time one of the kids burned his leg on the side pipes, we bought our first minivan a few days later woohoo. We always got a kick out of pulling into wherever, being all loud and nasty esp with the side pipes and dark tinted windows and then opening the doors and being like a clown car with us all piling out. My wife and I just loved the looks we'd get esp from the scolds and unless you've ever been on a highway playing cat and mouse with someone in their new sports car and had your wife say, "don't even think about letting him pass us", it would be hard to grasp our relationship with each other and our cars.
My ramblings do have a point as far as ffb goes, while a 76 TA is not an exotic sports car it is a pretty solid real life thing to measure the game ffb by as far as trying to get a feel, at a little over 110 mph the car settles very nicely and the handling characteristics transform so it becomes what feels like a whole new car. Ok so I guess this is where I guess my main frustration with pcars ffb is so far, were it not find for you guys and your devotion to this ffb effort IMO the whole thing would be a joke and not one with any humor behind it.
On a positive note tho, yesterday I drove one of the bmw gt3 cars, at first the car just felt lifeless and as drivable as a cinder block, did a reset and it came back to life, put in my preferred ffb settings and it felt pretty damn good. To me it's def a sign my base ffb config has come a long long ways from even just two months ago.
So once again a big thanks to you guys for being so patient and helpful with everyone.
Thats the thing... The Calculators say 1 thing but the end result is how it feels to you the Human user... Mathematical Equations/ A.I has Not progressed to that level yet and probably Never will in this field because Nothing can Replace the Natural Human Sence of Touch and Feel.
Very true. The end feeling is what matters. I just wonder if you guys with the v2s would get the same result as I am with using scoops for a higher ffb master but at a lower ffb master setting. If I use the calculated scoops for whatever value it gets heavy really quick without much feel. Using 75 scoops at 68 is totally different feel for the better.
GrimeyDog
26-05-2016, 19:04
Very true. The end feeling is what matters. I just wonder if you guys with the v2s would get the same result as I am with using scoops for a higher ffb master but at a lower ffb master setting. If I use the calculated scoops for whatever value it gets heavy really quick without much feel. Using 75 scoops at 68 is totally different feel for the better.
Thats the Scoops i use 68/24 and it Feels Very Good.. Higher Scoop Knee it Feels like im Dragging the Rear of the Car around corners, with Lower Scoop Knee it feels like soon as i get wheel weight to feel the turn the Rear end whips around... Its a fine line to balance the scoops so you can feel the Car.
I was using the same Tweek on XB1 with My TX and it felt Good... It actually feels very close to how the V2 feels just Less powerful. I probably could have fine tuned the scoops for the TX Due to the smaller Rim Size on the TX but i dont think the adjusted #'s would be more than + or - 4 either way Sk/SR
Honestly I donīt know, but I reckon PWM affects the curve similar Dri=3, in this case if "drag" as such is the key or trick of Fanatec to achieve a linear FFB
response. Unfortunately we donīt have any tool to work it out in game other than our hands. The CSW v2 Scoop values require to compensate the loss of
force with SG. TF / Scales are not an option if you want to stay away from saturation prior processing, but SG is scaling non linear so you end up with
a non linear curve again, probably not far away where you`ve been before - a dilemma.
I have decided to use PWM+PWMS and Dri=off, no Scoops and SG @ 105 which is almost linear. If you look at my global setting suggestions though
different settings but donīt feel much apart from each other.
BTW a compromise setting of a little bit of drag and lower Scoop and compensating values also is thinkable.
Interesting... I just started running no Scoops (with PWM+PWMS, DRI=Off, SG=1.0), and when I first turned the Scoops off, one of the first things I thought was that the feel reminded me a lot of your others settings (PWM/PWMS=0, DRI=3, SG=1.45, Scoops=0.86/0.28).
Thats the Scoops i use 68/24 and it Feels Very Good.. Higher Scoop Knee it Feels like im Dragging the Rear of the Car around corners, with Lower Scoop Knee it feels like soon as i get wheel weight to feel the turn the Rear end whips around... Its a fine line to balance the scoops so you can feel the Car.
I was using the same Tweek on XB1 with My TX and it felt Good... It actually feels very close to how the V2 feels just Less powerful. I probably could have fine tuned the scoops for the TX Due to the smaller Rim Size on the TX but i dont think the adjusted #'s would be more than + or - 4 either way Sk/SR
Not the knee. That's the only big difference in the new scoops is the sr is much higher. The knee only changed 3-4 higher from what we had previously been using. The sr is 26 higher. The much higher sr is why I'm feeling the progressive feel more. I cant lower it all without losing that feel.
When you do your Test Laps Post the Video... and could you give a description of the FFB and how it felt... Thats always Good info that can used to help refine the Tweek.
This will be a Great comparison because we use different wheels.
Oops not very helpful but I missed this obviously as I'm just now getting caught up on the thread.
GrimeyDog
26-05-2016, 21:03
Not the knee. That's the only big difference in the new scoops is the sr is much higher. The knee only changed 3-4 higher from what we had previously been using. The sr is 26 higher. The much higher sr is why I'm feeling the progressive feel more. I cant lower it all without losing that feel.
I agree we are on the same Page...I was using Low SR before 12 i think it was... Im Now using 24 SR and 68 SK... to fine tune for the Tx prob = + or - to compensate for the smaller rim.. I think it would be more SK that Needed the fine tuning Not SR.
It is because he has a small bump early on, showing that the wheel did move, but then in the next steps it didn't move. I had that too a couple of times, and because it moved early once, it lowered my deadzone.
Yes to the small initial bump and then I thought it wasn't working before it seemed to begin to fully function, I ran the test right after what I believe was an overheated situation so that may have been a factor.
Last week I had checked thrustmaster for an updated firmware, ran the installer and the firmware update program. During that I did see that the updates had a May 2015 date reference (I think it was May but it def was not the September date reference) and while I thought it odd, the program ran and said it updated.
Bottom line is that the wheel bios did NOT update, I ended up having to do the bootloader method of holding the r3 l3 buttons and plugging in the usb cable before getting the bios to update properly to the latest ver25b bios I think it was called, so yea def seems like something got corrupted in the firmware.
As far as using a USB hub, the thrustmaster site says the wheel either HAS TO, or SHOULD BE plugged into the ps4 directly. All this time I've used my powered and or unpowered hubs and in hindsight I can see it may have been playing a role in the correct functionality of the wheel. I am certain that my wheel has presented greatly different levels of force unrelated to game updates or changes I made in the config. (You get my drift I'm sure, it's the wheel and not me 😜)
Link to the bootloader method should anyone need it.
http://ts.thrustmaster.com/download/accessories/Manuals/T300RS/T300RS_Bootloader_Method.pdf
Made some adjustments to the FFB last night. I addition to disabling the Scoops, I Lowered RAB to 0.06, and I like the feel a lot. Here's an FFB test at Donington GP. I like the waveform, constantly in flux, and very little leveling in high-speed corners. I don't mean clipping style leveling. I mean the type of leveling that results from higher saturation, which keeps the waveform from dropping below a certain level in high speed corners. IMO, this is one of the things that can diminish the dynamic cornering feel. I like to see a fair amount of fluctuation in the waveform during cornering, because I think it represents the changing levels of grip. I believe the more normalized/uniform the waveform pattern looks in high speed corners, the less dynamic the feedback, at least where grip is concerned. Again, just my opinion.
Anyway...I don't drive the track often, so please excuse the driving--especially the first lap; I was watching the telemetry and my tires were a little worn. :). I also don't use KERS or DRS when testing, so this is just a straight drive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xbbLtXc0Q
I'll post a few more soon, probably all Formula A. Then I'll move on to some other cars. :)
I made this exact observation the other day when I was having wheel problems, aside from curb/rumble spikes the ffb signal while not indicating clipping the line had almost no wave form to it, even when hard braking into a turn to try and get some type of response to the signal.
CSW v2 linearity
1. Dri=off - (almost) linear response, (almost) no scoop required, but drag on the wheel
2. Dri=3 - non linear response, scoop required, no drag on the wheel
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Edit: Scoop Settings here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1277300&viewfull=1#post1277300
Thanks Jack. This is what I was looking for =)
CSW v2 linearity
1. Dri=off - (almost) linear response, (almost) no scoop required, but drag on the wheel
2. Dri=3 - non linear response, scoop required, no drag on the wheel
Edit: Scoop Settings here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1277300&viewfull=1#post1277300
Did you change any control panel settings when you ran the test? My DRI=3 test came out below the curve.
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gotdirt410sprintcar
27-05-2016, 00:15
Last week it was raising Sr now its drop sk and raise Sr lol I will just stay where I'm at.
I made this exact observation the other day when I was having wheel problems, aside from curb/rumble spikes the ffb signal while not indicating clipping the line had almost no wave form to it, even when hard braking into a turn to try and get some type of response to the signal.
Yes. I think that's what misleads a lot of people. You don't need a crazy waveform to feel things.
Honestly I donīt know, but I reckon PWM affects the curve similar Dri=3, in this case if "drag" as such is the key or trick of Fanatec to achieve a linear FFB
response. Unfortunately we donīt have any tool to work it out in game other than our hands. The CSW v2 Scoop values require to compensate the loss of
force with SG. TF / Scales are not an option if you want to stay away from saturation prior processing, but SG is scaling non linear so you end up with
a non linear curve again, probably not far away where you`ve been before - a dilemma.
I agree with you on PWM, but I'm struggling to understand why you think saturation occurs prior to Relative Adjust and Soft Clip?
You must be under the impression that the settings I posted with my video earlier are incredibly saturated at this stage? With TF at 100, Master Scales at 100.0, Fz and Mz scales at 100.0, I'm effectively passing the raw values coming out of the tire simulation straight through to the compression routines unaltered.
They first hit the Relative Adjust module where I have my clamp set quite high at 1.75. In the V8 Supercar, with my Spindle & Sop settings tire forces are peaking at about 1.8. So they're only occasionally 'soft limited' by the Relative Adjust Clamp. Everything is in good shape coming out of here - No overly aggressive clamping or saturation.
The forces then hit Soft Clip. With Full Output Rescaling set to 1.8, the entire range of incoming forces (0 - 1.8) are rescaled back down to the (0 - 1.0) range. You can almost think of Soft Clip as another Master Scale control (albeit a non-linear scaler) that operates on everything that comes out of the Spindle/SoP -> Relative Adjust components.
Now all forces are in the 0 - 1.0 range. But at no point in this chain are forces overly limited or saturated. tennenbaum and poirqc also seem to have a good grasp on this.
I made this exact observation the other day when I was having wheel problems, aside from curb/rumble spikes the ffb signal while not indicating clipping the line had almost no wave form to it, even when hard braking into a turn to try and get some type of response to the signal.
Yes. I think that's what misleads a lot of people. You don't need a crazy waveform to feel things.
Exactly. The smallest vibration/hiccup in the waveform can be felt, it's just extremely light. Conversely, other than a collision, high/rumble curbs and grass are probably the hardest impact forces you'll encounter. Slip and weight transfer don't cause crazy seismograph-like skittering/spiking in the waveform. If you're seeing curb like skittering in the wave when you're not even on a curb or in the grass, then I think you should ask yourself where that spiking is coming from. No matter how textured or rough the track is, it's not as rough as the curbs and grass, so the road feel shouldn't produce the same size spikes as those harder/higher elements. At least not in my opinion. I would think the size and amount of disruption a track element puts through the tire model would equate to the size and disruption of the waveform.
Jack Spade
27-05-2016, 05:22
I agree with you on PWM, but I'm struggling to understand why you think saturation occurs prior to Relative Adjust and Soft Clip?
You must be under the impression that the settings I posted with my video earlier are incredibly saturated at this stage? With TF at 100, Master Scales at 100.0, Fz and Mz scales at 100.0, I'm effectively passing the raw values coming out of the tire simulation straight through to the compression routines unaltered.
They first hit the Relative Adjust module where I have my clamp set quite high at 1.75. In the V8 Supercar, with my Spindle & Sop settings tire forces are peaking at about 1.8. So they're only occasionally 'soft limited' by the Relative Adjust Clamp. Everything is in good shape coming out of here - No overly aggressive clamping or saturation.
The forces then hit Soft Clip. With Full Output Rescaling set to 1.8, the entire range of incoming forces (0 - 1.8) are rescaled back down to the (0 - 1.0) range. You can almost think of Soft Clip as another Master Scale control (albeit a non-linear scaler) that operates on everything that comes out of the Spindle/SoP -> Relative Adjust components.
Now all forces are in the 0 - 1.0 range. But at no point in this chain are forces overly limited or saturated. tennenbaum and poirqc also seem to have a good grasp on this.
A reminder, SMS default TF is at 26, even with this the signal already clips when it leaves the carīs FFB department on most of them.
Jack Spade
27-05-2016, 06:11
Interesting... I just started running no Scoops (with PWM+PWMS, DRI=Off, SG=1.0), and when I first turned the Scoops off, one of the first things I thought was that the feel reminded me a lot of your others settings (PWM/PWMS=0, DRI=3, SG=1.45, Scoops=0.86/0.28).
Yes, exactly what I was talking about. Again, I prefer the first here as thereīs no algorithm bending anything.... maybe an advantage?
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 08:53
A reminder, SMS default TF is at 26, even with this the signal already clips when it leaves the carīs FFB department on most of them.
IMO The SMS Default MS 26 was just thrown there with No Rhyme or Reason... It was Not put there with any intent on Car or FFB back optimization...The Game was Released in a Raw un-polished state and they just threw that setting out there to launch the Game and Never Readjusted it....
Edit: also with all the updates and Changes that have been made to the Tire Model and Global settings SMS Should/ Could have put out a better Standard in Car FFB setting Long time ago.
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...thread.105466/
Quote "a) Fx = 200, Fy = 100, Fz = 100, Mz = 100, Spindle Master Scale = 100
b) Fx = 100, Fy = 50, Fz = 50, Mz = 50, Spindle Master Scale = 200
Mathematically speaking a) and b) represent the exact same thing and will result in the exact same FFB mixing in terms of relative and overall output. This is because (as hinted at above) the Spindle Master Scale (Sms) is distributive such that Sms * (Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz) = (Sms * Fx, Sms * Fy, Sms * Fz, Sms * Mz). Again, take a moment to reflect on that.
Fy, Fz, and Mz all behave in the same way from a mathematical perspective.
It is worth noting that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale. The global Tire Force default is 100, which again means 100% or simply 1.0. The reason there is both a global and a per car knob that do the exact same kind of scaling, is that different cars produce different forces as measured at the steering rack. So if you like the quality of the FFB overall, but think the wheel jerks around a bit too much in all the cars, try dialling down Tire Force. If you like the quality of the FFB overall, but you think one or two of the cars have too strong FFB, leave the global Tire Force at 100 and tweak the Spindle Master Scale for those two cars." End quote
Yes, exactly what I was talking about. Again, I prefer the first here as thereīs no algorithm bending anything.... maybe an advantage?
IMO The SMS Default MS 26 was just thrown there with No Rhyme or Reason... It was Not put there with any intent on Car or FFB back optimization...The Game was Released in a Raw un-polished state and they just threw that setting out there to launch the Game and Never Readjusted it....
Edit: also with all the updates and Changes that have been made to the Tire Model and Global settings SMS Should/ Could have put out a better Standard in Car FFB setting Long time ago.
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...thread.105466/
Quote "a) Fx = 200, Fy = 100, Fz = 100, Mz = 100, Spindle Master Scale = 100
b) Fx = 100, Fy = 50, Fz = 50, Mz = 50, Spindle Master Scale = 200
Mathematically speaking a) and b) represent the exact same thing and will result in the exact same FFB mixing in terms of relative and overall output. This is because (as hinted at above) the Spindle Master Scale (Sms) is distributive such that Sms * (Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz) = (Sms * Fx, Sms * Fy, Sms * Fz, Sms * Mz). Again, take a moment to reflect on that.
Fy, Fz, and Mz all behave in the same way from a mathematical perspective.
It is worth noting that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale. The global Tire Force default is 100, which again means 100% or simply 1.0. The reason there is both a global and a per car knob that do the exact same kind of scaling, is that different cars produce different forces as measured at the steering rack. So if you like the quality of the FFB overall, but think the wheel jerks around a bit too much in all the cars, try dialling down Tire Force. If you like the quality of the FFB overall, but you think one or two of the cars have too strong FFB, leave the global Tire Force at 100 and tweak the Spindle Master Scale for those two cars." End quote
Pretty sure he understands how TF and the Master scales work. :) His point is that even with the Master Scale set to the default 26, there's clipping. I don't think SMS set this value arbitrarily, but even if they did, the point is still valid. At 26 there's clipping.
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 10:37
Last week it was raising Sr now its drop sk and raise Sr lol I will just stay where I'm at.
Exactly where im at... Im Not Changing anything at this point... The FFB Feels Very Good as it is Now...
I may add some smoothing and Damping on a per Car Basis and Make a Few Suspension Tweeks but No more than that...and TBH i dont even think i will get too deep in Tuning the Car suspension unless it Makes a Major diff in Lap Times... Laguna Seca, 10 Lap races, Gt3 Ruf Stock Suspension im at 1:23.xxx Lap Race pace and can Hit 1:22.xxx when im Focused.... in order for Me to Dig Deep into Suspension tuning the Lap Times would have to drop to 1:21.xxx with a consistent Race pace of 1:22.5xx(My fastest lap so far)... It dont make Good sense to Tweek a car to be Fast but its too Twithcy to run consistent lao times with.
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 11:00
Pretty sure he understands how TF and the Master scales work. :) His point is that even with the Master Scale set to the default 26, there's clipping. I don't think SMS set this value arbitrarily, but even if they did, the point is still valid. At 26 there's clipping.
Yes im pretty sure we all Know How TF works Now:yes: Yup even Me to now:)
My point was the Math Equation... No where in there did i see car Master 26 as a primamary Number to Balance the FFB Mathenatical Equation... also take Note that in the Mathematical Equation Given Car Masters are 100 and the Recomendation was if the FFB with all cars us stronger than you Like to Reduce the TF but if its only stronger than you like with a few cars then Reduce the Car Masters per Car to balance the FFB to taste.
Edit: withbthebDefault settings the Clipping could also be because the Default RAC setting is 96 and thats vey High IMO.
My guess:
In the official guide, FxyzMz 100 is pure steering rack forces. They probably set SMS to 26 to have a balance of strenght and not too much clipping when paired with the default RAs / Scoop.
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 12:32
My guess:
In the official guide, FxyzMz 100 is pure steering rack forces. They probably set SMS to 26 to have a balance of strenght and not too much clipping when paired with the default RAs / Scoop.
I just think it was thrown together No Rhyme or Reason... If it were carefully put together then at least they would have set it to avoid Clipping at the Very least.. JMO... also with all the Tire Model and adjustments that have been made to Global Settings with updates the Default In car settings have long been out dated and obsolite... JMO.
The Joke is that its all just a #'s Game we all are feeling the same thing just using different #'s or Methods to bring out the things we want to feel Most... I can Make My Tweek Feel Exactly Like a JS or any tweek with My Masters 100 simply by adjusting Fx,Fy, SoP Etc and adding Smoothing/Damping... IMO what it Really boils down to is what part of the FFB system you choose to use as a power source.
Jack Spade
27-05-2016, 12:53
IMO The SMS Default MS 26 was just thrown there with No Rhyme or Reason... It was Not put there with any intent on Car or FFB back optimization...The Game was Released in a Raw un-polished state and they just threw that setting out there to launch the Game and Never Readjusted it....
Edit: also with all the updates and Changes that have been made to the Tire Model and Global settings SMS Should/ Could have put out a better Standard in Car FFB setting Long time ago.
http://www.racedepartment.com/thread...thread.105466/
Quote "a) Fx = 200, Fy = 100, Fz = 100, Mz = 100, Spindle Master Scale = 100
b) Fx = 100, Fy = 50, Fz = 50, Mz = 50, Spindle Master Scale = 200
Mathematically speaking a) and b) represent the exact same thing and will result in the exact same FFB mixing in terms of relative and overall output. This is because (as hinted at above) the Spindle Master Scale (Sms) is distributive such that Sms * (Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz) = (Sms * Fx, Sms * Fy, Sms * Fz, Sms * Mz). Again, take a moment to reflect on that.
Fy, Fz, and Mz all behave in the same way from a mathematical perspective.
It is worth noting that Tire Force is the global version of Spindle Master Scale. The global Tire Force default is 100, which again means 100% or simply 1.0. The reason there is both a global and a per car knob that do the exact same kind of scaling, is that different cars produce different forces as measured at the steering rack. So if you like the quality of the FFB overall, but think the wheel jerks around a bit too much in all the cars, try dialling down Tire Force. If you like the quality of the FFB overall, but you think one or two of the cars have too strong FFB, leave the global Tire Force at 100 and tweak the Spindle Master Scale for those two cars." End quote
Not quite.... IIRC there was a poll going on in WMD forum, 25 and 238 was suggested. Mainly the hard core sim racers rejected 25 as too much of a mainstream value and voted 238.
After months of debate SMS finally decided 26 to be a fair compromise.:)
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 12:58
Not quite.... IIRC there was a poll going on in WMD forum, 25 and 238 was suggested. Mainly the hard core sim racers rejected 25 as too much of a mainstream value and voted 238.
After months of debate SMS finally decided 26 to be a fair compromise.:)
25, 238??? im lost??? Please Elaborate.
I just think it was thrown together No Rhyme or Reason... If it were carefully put together then at least they would have set it to avoid Clipping at the Very least.. JMO... also with all the Tire Model and adjustments that have been made to Global Settings with updates the Default In car settings have long been out dated and obsolite... JMO.
The Joke is that its all just a #'s Game we all are feeling the same thing just using different #'s or Methods to bring out the things we want to feel Most... I can Make My Tweek Feel Exactly Like a JS or any tweek with My Masters 100 simply by adjusting Fx,Fy, SoP Etc and adding Smoothing/Damping... IMO what it Really boils down to is what part of the FFB system you choose to use as a power source.
100%, the system is there for a reason.
With that said, they had to pick one template(A build in multi template chooser would be awesome!) at some point. So straight rack force make sense. It's essentially a blank canvas. From there, draw whatever you want.
A reminder, SMS default TF is at 26, even with this the signal already clips when it leaves the carīs FFB department on most of them.
Yes the default setup can clip, but that clipping doesn't occur prior to Relative Adjust->Soft Clip.
If a default setup marginally clips with the Master scale set to 26 (Combined spindle forces reach a magnitude of 1.0). Then it follows that before reaching the Master Scale multiplier these forces were almost 4 times higher - the raw forces were peaking at around 4.0. Note that they weren't clipped at this early stage, if they were we couldn't have scaled them back down to 1.0 with the Master Scale multiplier 0.26. ;)
They aren't clipped prior to RA/SC either. The Relative Adjust clamp can be placed on forces as high as 2.0. Soft Clip full output can be configured to rescale forces as high as 10.0. How could it possibly do that if the signal was clipped back to 1.0 before reaching it?
Only after these compression routines are forces that are greater than 1.0 actually clipped.
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 15:14
Yes the default setup can clip, but that clipping doesn't occur prior to Relative Adjust->Soft Clip.
If a default setup marginally clips with the Master scale set to 26 (Combined spindle forces reach a magnitude of 1.0). Then it follows that before reaching the Master Scale multiplier these forces were almost 4 times higher - the raw forces were peaking at around 4.0. Note that they weren't clipped at this early stage, if they were we couldn't have scaled them back down to 1.0 with the Master Scale multiplier 0.26. ;)
They aren't clipped prior to RA/SC either. The Relative Adjust clamp can be placed on forces as high as 2.0. Soft Clip full output can be configured to rescale forces as high as 10.0. How could it possibly do that if the signal was clipped back to 1.0 before reaching it?
Only after these compression routines are forces that are greater than 1.0 actually clipped.
Holy S#&t!!! LOL... While im very Good with Math I dont follow any of the Math tweek Formulas:no: I just Discard and over look them... I Choose to Tweek by Feel...but some How I totally get this!!!:yes:
You Guys are rubbing Off on Me:victorious:
I will be sitting here with a Calculator and Note pad if this keeps up:cool: But i get it i totally Get it:yes:
Jack Spade
27-05-2016, 15:16
Yes the default setup can clip, but that clipping doesn't occur prior to Relative Adjust->Soft Clip.
If a default setup marginally clips with the Master scale set to 26 (Combined spindle forces reach a magnitude of 1.0). Then it follows that before reaching the Master Scale multiplier these forces were almost 4 times higher - the raw forces were peaking at around 4.0. Note that they weren't clipped at this early stage, if they were we couldn't have scaled them back down to 1.0 with the Master Scale multiplier 0.26. ;)
They aren't clipped prior to RA/SC either. The Relative Adjust clamp can be placed on forces as high as 2.0. Soft Clip full output can be configured to rescale forces as high as 10.0. How could it possibly do that if the signal was clipped back to 1.0 before reaching it?
Only after these compression routines are forces that are greater than 1.0 actually clipped.
Let me get this straight, down there our signal flow....(SG at 1.0 and the FFB monitor is missing here, should be at the end of the chain)
1. if everything after Spindle and SOP is disabled the signal the monitor displays is exactly whatīs been calculated in the core FFB department > TF, FxzyMz Spindle and Sop.....right?
2. if that yellow line runs flat against top/bottom 100% signal resolution or maximum is calculated at this stage....right?
3. if I interpret the following signal flow correct Spindle/Sop Scale is prior Relative Adjust etc....right?
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Let me get this straight, down there our signal flow....(SG and the FFB monitor is missing here, should be at the end of the chain)
1. if everything after Spindle and SOP is disabled the signal the monitor displays is exactly whatīs been calculated in the core FFB department > TF, FxzyMz Spindle and Sop.....right?
2. if that yellow line runs flat against top/bottom 100% signal resolution or maximum is calculated at this stage....right?
3. if I interpret the following signal flow correct Spindle/Sop Scale is prior Relative Adjust etc....right?
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Those 3 sentences are right.
Were arguing what the hud actually display.
If you don't compress the signal, it's clipped at the output. The thing is, the signal isn't clipped while going through each stage. All the information is there( i think that we demonstrated it well with the various RAs and SC tests), it get clipped when it gets output.
The easiest way is to take your classic file, #1. Crank TF 2 times. Then use Soft Clipping in a linear fashion, just as a compressor. To lower the signal 2 times. It should give the same FFB.
Maybe the same could be done with Scoops, but i'm not sure on this one. SK 100 and SR to 0,5. It should lower everything back.
Just confirmed the new thrustmaster wheel is a true direct drive.:D Wheel goes directly on the motor.
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 19:10
Just confirmed the new thrustmaster wheel is a true direct drive.:D Wheel goes directly on the motor.
What Web site Has the Info???
Only thing that Spoils it for Me is the Small Rim Size... if there are Larger Rims available for it Im Sooo Gonna Have 1... Any word on when its coming out???
Are there any specs Given about the wheel yet???
Resolution, Motor Size, Max Torque??? Very important details.
What Web site Has the Info???
Im Sooo Gonna Have 1... Any word on when its coming out???
GT PLANET in the news section its at the top. Purposely designed to be very linear.:cool: It didn't really say for sure but my guess is when gt sport comes out. Me too! When does amazon start taking preorders? lol
GrimeyDog
27-05-2016, 19:23
I am Eagerly awaiting the Fanatec answer to this New TM wheel!!! You Know Fanatec is Going to step up to answer this!!! If My V2 wheel Rims will work on the Fanatec answer to the TM DD wheel i will Stay Fanatec because of that...The only thing that puts Me Off with the TM wheel is the Small Rim Size... If Larger Rim Sizes are available i will buy the TM wheel anyway as long as its at a decent ptice point....any pruce range Given yet??? My Guess is $699.00 or More!!!
I am Eagerly awaiting the Fanatec answer to this New TM wheel!!! You Know Fanatec is Going to step up to answer this!!! If My V2 wheel Rims will work on the Fanatec answer to the TM DD wheel i will Stay Fanatec because of that...The only thing that puts Me Off with the TM wheel is the Small Rim Size... If Larger Rim Sizes are available i will buy the TM wheel anyway as long as its at a decent ptice point....any pruce range Given yet??? My Guess is $699.00 or More!!!
Seems from what everybody is guessing it will be priced about the same as a fanatec. If its good I think it will kind of force the other companies hands to come out with their own dd wheel.
I am Eagerly awaiting the Fanatec answer to this New TM wheel!!! You Know Fanatec is Going to step up to answer this!!! If My V2 wheel Rims will work on the Fanatec answer to the TM DD wheel i will Stay Fanatec because of that...The only thing that puts Me Off with the TM wheel is the Small Rim Size... If Larger Rim Sizes are available i will buy the TM wheel anyway as long as its at a decent ptice point....any pruce range Given yet??? My Guess is $699.00 or More!!!
Seems from what everybody is guessing it will be priced about the same as a fanatec. If its good I think it will kind of force the other companies hands to come out with their own dd wheel.
Same here--the wheel size is big a turn off, as well as TM's limited selection of rims. It also makes me wonder how strong the wheel motor is. Did they make the rim that size to work with its existing product line, or because the motor couldn't handle a larger heavier rim?
I've heard Fanatec was already working on a DD wheel. If they weren't, they certainly are now. :) I'm just gonna wait for that. I'm sure whatever the make, will work with their existing rims.
I'm assuming the new TM wheel works with their existing pedal sets, so in theory, the CPX adapter should still work, allowing you to use Clubsport V3s. If that's no longer an option, that would really suck.
Fight-Test
27-05-2016, 23:46
Same here--the wheel size is big a turn off, as well as TM's limited selection of rims. It also makes me wonder how strong the wheel motor is. Did they make the rim that size to work with its existing product line, or because the motor couldn't handle a larger heavier rim?
I've heard Fanatec was already working on a DD wheel. If they weren't, they certainly are now. :) I'm just gonna wait for that. I'm sure whatever the make, will work with their existing rims.
I'm assuming the new TM wheel works with their existing pedal sets, so in theory, the CPX adapter should still work, allowing you to use Clubsport V3s. If that's no longer an option, that would really suck.
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Just grab a plate or a pre modded thrustmaster wheel from ricmotech. There is a weight u can't go over so some rims will be too heavy. But most momo will work.
So I could try to isolate something weird I was getting back from my wheel that I could both feel and see in the ffb window I tried lowering all my in car sliders except the main one. I figured it would help determine where the odd bump/grab and notch were coming from, lowered everything to about 20% of normal and still got the weird signal.
Ok so I went back to the wheel calibration knowing it had to be there but then again just could not determine what module was causing the issue. Went to default settings and reset a mustang gt because I know pretty much exactly what to expect from the feel of it, immediately that weird signal was gone so I knew it's not a wheel defect per se. Went to the settings I know should be good and close to correct, DRR .06 and the default setting of DRF.01, changed my scoops to what FCM said they should be, changed RAB to .03 and suddenly the wheel felt pretty much exactly like a Mustang GT should feel like, switched to the little RS and it felt perfect after a default reset, went to the formula A which I would drive despite having really no feel to anything but heavy and suddenly I was driving Donnington GT in 1:12's lap after lap, the thing just felt great and I understood why it has the records everywhere. I even drove the Renault clio cup, a car I could not get around any track previously, I mean everyone can drive a great car but driving a crapbox fast takes skill and most importantly a great deal of feel and while it will take me a bit to have really really good times with that piece of crap I was hitting times that surprised me.
Ok great but the question I've been trying to answer since if why the RA module is messing with me. OK bleed doesn't seem to do very much right now, clamp does change wheel weight quite a bit but RAG as soon I as I adjust off the default I start getting bad signal stuff, bumps and notches, what am I missing?
I have two wheel settings up on the oscarlim site under the T300, the bottom one is the smoothest wheel with lots of info to my hands and the other wheel setup causes some kind of really bad noise to my wheel. I just can't see what's right in front of me for some reason, if anyone has the time and ideas please tell me what I'm missing.
You guys are totes nerding out.
So I could try to isolate something weird I was getting back from my wheel that I could both feel and see in the ffb window I tried lowering all my in car sliders except the main one. I figured it would help determine where the odd bump/grab and notch were coming from, lowered everything to about 20% of normal and still got the weird signal.
Ok so I went back to the wheel calibration knowing it had to be there but then again just could not determine what module was causing the issue. Went to default settings and reset a mustang gt because I know pretty much exactly what to expect from the feel of it, immediately that weird signal was gone so I knew it's not a wheel defect per se. Went to the settings I know should be good and close to correct, DRR .06 and the default setting of DRF.01, changed my scoops to what FCM said they should be, changed RAB to .03 and suddenly the wheel felt pretty much exactly like a Mustang GT should feel like, switched to the little RS and it felt perfect after a default reset, went to the formula A which I would drive despite having really no feel to anything but heavy and suddenly I was driving Donnington GT in 1:12's lap after lap, the thing just felt great and I understood why it has the records everywhere. I even drove the Renault clio cup, a car I could not get around any track previously, I mean everyone can drive a great car but driving a crapbox fast takes skill and most importantly a great deal of feel and while it will take me a bit to have really really good times with that piece of crap I was hitting times that surprised me.
Ok great but the question I've been trying to answer since if why the RA module is messing with me. OK bleed doesn't seem to do very much right now, clamp does change wheel weight quite a bit but RAG as soon I as I adjust off the default I start getting bad signal stuff, bumps and notches, what am I missing?
I have two wheel settings up on the oscarlim site under the T300, the bottom one is the smoothest wheel with lots of info to my hands and the other wheel setup causes some kind of really bad noise to my wheel. I just can't see what's right in front of me for some reason, if anyone has the time and ideas please tell me what I'm missing.
I'm definitely no eggspurt but the DRR @10.00 and clamp @75 to me look like the problem.
Others run the clamp around there (75) but for me the wheel is just heavy and lifeless and with DRR @ 10.00 well that must be a misprint. lol.
I'm definitely no eggspurt but the DRR @10.00 and clamp @75 to me look like the problem.
Others run the clamp around there (75) but for me the wheel is just heavy and lifeless and with DRR @ 10.00 well that must be a misprint. lol.
DRR is .10, I'll correct that thanks. Morpwr is running at that number and RAG at 1.5 and he swears by it so that's how I think I'm missing something obvious.
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