Lets talk FFB PC, PS4, XBox1

[Haiden]

I wish all the cars from Automobilista/Raceroom where in pCars or the other way round.

Yes. More season based class line ups with all the actual liveries. Real liveries is something I hope PCars2 has. Design aesthetics are one thing, but it's really nice seeing real world sponsorship on the cars.

[sifupooh]

For Me Balancing the Global Settings with TF/RAC 75 was the Key:yes: This allows in Car Masters to be set at 100 without Fear of Clipping...

Howdy grimeydog, I understand this to mean set TF equal to RAC. Correct?

[GrimeyDog]

Howdy grimeydog, I understand this to mean set TF equal to RAC. Correct?

Correct:yes:

This is Very Subjective to How Much Wheel weight you want VS How Strong you want FFB forces to Feel.

TF will + or - Wheel weight

RAC will + or - FFB Effects Curbs, Rumble Strips, Bumps

You can + or - either setting independently or together to Get the wheel weight and FFB Effects Strength thats best for you... It is Not Manditory that they be set to the same Level.

Note: when using No Scoops it is Necessary to Reduce TF to Compensate for the extra power that No Scoops Adds to the FFB....EX: with No Scoops i set TF 65 and RAC 75.... It is also Possible that you can Reduce the In Car Masters to Reduce the Power that No Scoops adds to the FFB but this way will also Reduce the Curb, Bump Feel also.

TF/RAC 75 is set so that you can use in Car Masters 100 and adjust + or - as Needed per Car with No FFB Clipping... you can adjust the Fx, Fy, Fz, Mz & SOP settings to bring out the feel you like Most... Then Readjust the masters accordingly until the wheel weight and Bump Feel is right for you.

I Always Test Drive the Cars with a Stock untuned suspension so you get a pure Feel of the FFB and how the car Handles and then Make adjustments to the suspension if Needed.

[sifupooh]

edit: used mobile to reply, ghost post of haiden was quoted too


Correct:yes:

This is Very Subjective to How Much Wheel weight you want VS How Strong you want FFB forces to Feel.

TF will + or - Wheel weight

RAC will + or - FFB Effects Curbs, Rumble Strips, Bumps

You can + or - either setting independently or together to Get the wheel weight and FFB Effects Strength thats best for you... It is Not Manditory that they be set to the same Level.... Ex Now that i use No Scoops i set TF 65(Wheel weight) and RAC 75 (FFB effects Bumps Curbs) Note when using No Scoops it is Necessary to Reduce TF to Compensate for the extra power that No Scoops Adds to the FFB.

Pardon me as I don't have link, but I jotted what Jack Spade said in my notes "*Let´s say you normally have TF at 100 without Scoops, your linear test gives you SK at 0.85 and SR at 0.30. In this case SR also lowers the global force so you have to compensate
by increasing TF about the same amount so you end up with TF at 130. This has a similar effect like a compressor but without it´s disadvantages, lower forces are increased
strong ones are as before, result more detail."

So with poirqc help yesterday to adjust my FCM Scoop reduction from 0.62 to let's say 0.32, TF should be adjusted to 1.32 and RAC to 1.32. As a starting point then adjust to my preference. Also thank you for informing me that RAC is kerbs, and bumps. I imagine using Formula Renault car on lap sarthe would induce artificial parkinsons in my hands after 2 laps now

[GrimeyDog]

Howdy grimeydog, I understand this to mean set TF equal to RAC. Correct?

What wheel are you using???

[sifupooh]

thrustmaster t150, I failed using the Sheets calculation and I think I now know why, i didn't do this which was highlighted in red in "Fill in your response log from Wheelcheck: Open the original and unedited log with notepad.
Copy everything and paste it into the green cell. This propably looks weird but works." i opened via exccel then ctrl a ctrl v every data point. but yesterday using my FCM's deadzone removal value of 0.12 and noting that the thread Baseline Wheel FFB Values - Google Sheet & FCM. Universal has suggested values for t150 deadzone removal 0.17; I applied the percent difference to other values as well, deadzone removal falloff, Scoop Reduction. Now I have to run wheel check again, i think or open the file with notepad as i used excel to open and then Gsheets, what confused me was the wording of " Open the first CSV with the editor" Looks like editor possibly means notepad

[GrimeyDog]

edit: used mobile to reply, ghost post of haiden was quoted too



Pardon me as I don't have link, but I jotted what Jack Spade said in my notes "*Let´s say you normally have TF at 100 without Scoops, your linear test gives you SK at 0.85 and SR at 0.30. In this case SR also lowers the global force so you have to compensate
by increasing TF about the same amount so you end up with TF at 130. This has a similar effect like a compressor but without it´s disadvantages, lower forces are increased
strong ones are as before, result more detail."

So with poirqc help yesterday to adjust my FCM Scoop reduction from 0.62 to let's say 0.32, TF should be adjusted to 1.32 and RAC to 1.32. As a starting point then adjust to my preference. Also thank you for informing me that RAC is kerbs, and bumps. I imagine using Formula Renault car on lap sarthe would induce artificial parkinsons in my hands after 2 laps now

My Tweek Method is based on 100/1.00 i use the system with No setting above 1.00/100 Except for the in Car Masters if Needed to boost a Car that May have weak FFB Feel... I have Not yet found a Car that Needs 100+ master though.

JS uses Low in Car Masters so he uses other parts of the FFB system to Boost FFB forces back up to the 100/1.00 range...Ex Higher RAG/TF... With My method I find that with settings 100/1.00 and lower the Power and FFB Feel is there and settings above 100/1.00 are Not Needed. both Methods may achieve same or Similar Results its just a quesrion of how you choose to balance and use the FFB system...Note with My Methode there is No Need to adjust Arm angle or tune the Car Suspension as part of the FFB tweeking process.... Test the cars with Stock suspension and Make Changes to the Arm angle and Suspension as Needed if Needed.

[sifupooh]

My Tweek Methode is based on 100/1.00 i use the system with No serting above 1.00/100 Except for the in Car Masters if Needed to boost a Car that May have weak FFB Feel... I have Not yet found a Car that Needs 100+ master though.

JS uses Low in Car Masters so he uses other parts of the FFB system to Boost FFB forces back up to the 100/1.00 range...Ex Higher RAG/TF... With My methode I find that with settings 100/1.00 the Power and FFB Feel is there and settings above 100/1.00 are Not Needed. both Methodes may achieve same or Similar Results its just a quesrion of how you choose to balance and use the FFB system...Note with My Methode there is No Need to adjust Arm angle or tune the Car Suspension as part of the FFB sertings process.... Test the cars with Stock suspension and Make Changes to the Arm angle and Suspension as Needed if Needed.

so to recapitulate, all in car masters, (masters meaning master scale??) is set to 100 at a minimum depending on artistic feeling but extremely unlikely to set this greater than 100. Leave default Arm angle as is. If player chooses to use Scoops, then leave TR at 1.00, therefore setting RAC to 1.00... I need time for rest of thoughts to settle. apologies for abridged summary for now..

your insight here (http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/wheel-settings/browse/ps4-12/194) is still applicable? Last update: 3rd Jul 2016 17:07

"***PS4 Game master FFB for other wheels set according to Recommended Wheel settings ( I noted earlier in year someone said thrustmaster recommends a value between 70-80, but on PC thrustmaster control panel default ffb setting is 75, I suppose I'll choose 75 in PS global ffb setting) and + or - to get final at the wheel FFB Strength that's right for you." ***PS4 Game master FFB for other wheels set according to Recommended Wheel settings and + or - to get final at the wheel FFB Strength that's right for you.

" *** in car settings...Master scale 100, Fx 10, Fy 30, Fz 60, Mz 30 ..... SoP Scale 100 , SoP Lat 10, SoP Diff 60, SoP damp 0.00 ***Note: in Car settings I use No Smoothing/Damping or smoothing for me those settings take away from the direct and crisp feel of the FFB..." So Fx, Fy values are the same for FWD cars too then?

[GrimeyDog]

Exactly:yes: You may have to set PWMS,DRR & DRF according to your wheel... if you feel you have a dead zone in the wheel center... start with In car masters 100 and test cars with a stock suspension to get a pure feel for the FFB...adjust in car masters + or - until the wheel weight feels to your liking... then you can + or - Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz to bring out more FFB effects feel that you like most


"TR at 1.00, therefore setting RAC to 1.00... I need time for rest of thoughts to settle. apologies for abridged summary for now"
If you use No scoops then TF Must be Reduced to compensate for the extra power No Scoops adds to the FFB!!!
EX: Scoops on = TF 75 and Scoops Off =TF 65

But if your on Console i recommend setting scoops to on for now until i finish testing no scoops feel for console...Sooo far with testing IMO PS4 Feels better with Scoops on.

[morpwr]

so to recapitulate, all in car masters, (masters meaning master scale??) is set to 100 at a minimum depending on artistic feeling but extremely unlikely to set this greater than 100. Leave default Arm angle as is. If player chooses to use Scoops, then leave TR at 1.00, therefore setting RAC to 1.00... I need time for rest of thoughts to settle. apologies for abridged summary for now..

your insight here (http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/wheel-settings/browse/ps4-12/194) is still applicable? Last update: 3rd Jul 2016 17:07

"***PS4 Game master FFB for other wheels set according to Recommended Wheel settings ( I noted earlier in year someone said thrustmaster recommends a value between 70-80, but on PC thrustmaster control panel default ffb setting is 75, I suppose I'll choose 75 in PS global ffb setting) and + or - to get final at the wheel FFB Strength that's right for you." ***PS4 Game master FFB for other wheels set according to Recommended Wheel settings and + or - to get final at the wheel FFB Strength that's right for you.

" *** in car settings...Master scale 100, Fx 10, Fy 30, Fz 60, Mz 30 ..... SoP Scale 100 , SoP Lat 10, SoP Diff 60, SoP damp 0.00 ***Note: in Car settings I use No Smoothing/Damping or smoothing for me those settings take away from the direct and crisp feel of the FFB..." So Fx, Fy values are the same for FWD cars too then?

I don't know what the force curve looks like for the t150 but if its anything like the rest of the thrustmaster wheels I wouldn't try using no scoops. Our wheels aren't very linear and need some help in that department. Id also stay below the thrustmaster default value for the ffb master. It looks to me like thrustmaster chose those values because they become really non linear above that. If you use the fcm to check your wheel make sure you turn off spring and damper in the profile screen for your wheel before testing. Other wise your values will be wrong for the scoops. The fcm should be really close on the correct values for scoops.

[sifupooh]

235993
the curve after pressing the button

[sifupooh]

I don't know what the force curve looks like for the t150 but if its anything like the rest of the thrustmaster wheels I wouldn't try using no scoops. Our wheels aren't very linear and need some help in that department. Id also stay below the thrustmaster default value for the ffb master. It looks to me like thrustmaster chose those values because they become really non linear above that. If you use the fcm to check your wheel make sure you turn off spring and damper in the profile screen for your wheel before testing. Other wise your values will be wrong for the scoops. The fcm should be really close on the correct values for scoops.
Yes, spring and damper were set to 0. the default ffb in control panel is 75. So in the game menu, you say to set ffb to less than 75. o after tinkering with the sliders I managed a higher R^2 value, do you recommend I use the default best R^2 values or the massaged values? Thank you

[GrimeyDog]

I am Still Sooo outta the Loop when it comes to using the FFB Calculator Tools!!! Im Still doing everything by Test and Feel:yes:... I look at the Graphs and im Still Lost:confused:

[morpwr]

Yes, spring and damper were set to 0. the default ffb in control panel is 75. So in the game menu, you say to set ffb to less than 75. o after tinkering with the sliders I managed a higher R^2 value, do you recommend I use the default best R^2 values or the massaged values? Thank you

I would start with the recommended values and tune by feel once you figure out which way youre going to adjust the cars ffb. The first picture has too much deadzone removal. You want to keep the line a smooth as possible. Yes raising the ddr helps with the rest of the curve but that wont work well that way having a step in the deadzone to raise the rest of the curve.

[sifupooh]

235994

I would start with the recommended values and tune by feel once you figure out which way youre going to adjust the cars ffb. The first picture has too much deadzone removal. You want to keep the line a smooth as possible. Yes raising the ddr helps with the rest of the curve but that wont work well that way having a step in the deadzone to raise the rest of the curve.

Ah! In the unconfirmed seldom spoken words of the late Boutros Boutros Ghali, domo arigato

poirqc recommended to "play with Scoop Reduction to find a balance of force ramp up and understeer feeling. when this is done, you'll need to play with Deadzone Removal Falloff to have a wheel tight enough around TDC, without rattling too much"

[sifupooh]

I am Still Sooo outta the Loop when it comes to using the FFB Calculator Tools!!! Im Still doing everything by Test and Feel:yes:... I look at the Graphs and im Still Lost:confused:
Howdy. you have a top shelf wheel. ironically enough jack spade has same wheel and recommends (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1105406&viewfull=1#post1105406) "CSW v2 linearity depends on the "Dri" setting which is part of the wheel´s internal parameters. The wheel is linear if "Dri"
is in the off position, and gets more non linear the higher the "Dri" value. By default "Dri" is in the off position. In this mode there is a
small amount of drag. (similar in game - per wheel movement) There was a statement by Thomas Jäckermeier, head of Fanatec, Dri = 3 is neutral. People who prefer "Dri" values other than off should do the FFB linear test and adjust the Scoop stuff accordingly in order to have a linear response." that reco was made over a year ago, maybe it's changed with updated fb calc tool, i can't confirm

[morpwr]

235994


Ah! In the unconfirmed seldom spoken words of the late Boutros Boutros Ghali, domo arigato

poirqc recommended to "play with Scoop Reduction to find a balance of force ramp up and understeer feeling. when this is done, you'll need to play with Deadzone Removal Falloff to have a wheel tight enough around TDC, without rattling too much"

If you use jacks settings after putting in the values from the fcm you should be pretty close. I would move sk first up or down a number at a time then do the same for sr just so you can see what happens. Both will change the feel slightly but effect the ffb a little different. If you go grimeys way the same will apply but id get the cars set first before making the final tweaks.

[GrimeyDog]

Howdy. you have a top shelf wheel. ironically enough jack spade has same wheel and recommends (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files&p=1105406&viewfull=1#post1105406) "CSW v2 linearity depends on the "Dri" setting which is part of the wheel´s internal parameters. The wheel is linear if "Dri"
is in the off position, and gets more non linear the higher the "Dri" value. By default "Dri" is in the off position. In this mode there is a
small amount of drag. (similar in game - per wheel movement) There was a statement by Thomas Jäckermeier, head of Fanatec, Dri = 3 is neutral. People who prefer "Dri" values other than off should do the FFB linear test and adjust the Scoop stuff accordingly in order to have a linear response." that reco was made over a year ago, maybe it's changed with updated fb calc tool, i can't confirm

I just Go by Feel... If it Feels Good it is Good:yes:
Funny thing when i was testing to find My Scoop settings 68/24 it felt Good...No that i use No Scoops it feels 99% the same just with a More direct Feel at wheel center:yes:

The Tools work well for Most... For Me i Never got into using them because in the end you have to test by feel any way.

[GrimeyDog]

If you use jacks settings after putting in the values from the fcm you should be pretty close. I would move sk first up or down a number at a time then do the same for sr just so you can see what happens. Both will change the feel slightly but effect the ffb a little different. If you go grimeys way the same will apply but id get the cars set first before making the final tweaks.

With My way i dont tune any cars... Not even Brake Balance, Tire PSI or Down Force....The default car set up fits Me well....

My tweek is based around using the Masters to adjust wheel weight/FFB effects strength to desired level.... it also allows you to set the in Car FFB settings to personal taste to bring out the feel that you like Most and that best Matches the wheel used.... Its very user/wheel friendly and easy to customize to personal taste.

Master can be adjusted + or - 99 .... this allows user to set Fx,Fy, Fz,Mz & SOP to what ever feels best for user and Readjust in Car Masters to get the FFB strength per car that feels best.

the end result is its all just a #'s game to balance the forces to best suite the user.

With My TF/RAC_75 the Global Settings are balanced to avoid Clipping...Even at In Car Masters 200!!! which i doubt will ever be Needed... all user Need do is Set PWMS, DRR & DRF to match wheel used.

GM FFB Must be set according to wheel used to avoid at the wheel Clipping that will Not show in FFB Graph... Im still Not a believer in the all wheels GM FFB Rule...This is Substantiated because TM wheels above 75 are Less Linear which May be indicative of at the wheel Clipping or the wheel may be reducing power to protect its self due to being fed too much power.... Who Made this Rule any way??? There are Numerouse articles that invalidate this all wheels GM FFB 100 Rule from being Valid...Ex: TM Recommends GM FFB Max 75 or Less:yes:

the Most important thing is Knowing What Feel each setting brings out!!! thats the Key:yes:

[morpwr]

With My way i dont tune any cars... Not even Brake Balance, Tire PSI or Down Force....The default car set up fits Me well....

My tweek is based around using the Masters to adjust wheel weight/FFB effects strength to desired level.... it also allows you to set the in Car FFB settings to personal taste to bring out the feel that you like Most and that best Matches the wheel used.... Its very user/wheel friendly and easy to customize to personal taste.

Master can be adjusted + or - 99 .... this allows user to set Fx,Fy, Fz,Mz & SOP to what ever feels best for user and Readjust in Car Masters to get the FFB strength per car that feels best.

the end result is its all hust a #'s game to balance the forces to best suite then user.

With My TF/RAC_75 the Global Settings are balanced to avoid Clipping...Even at In Car Masters 200!!! which i doubt will ever be Needed... all user Need do is Set PWMS, DRR & DRF to match wheel used.

GM FFB Must be set according to wheel used to avoid at the wheel Clipping that will Not show in FFB Graph... Im still Not a believer in the all wheels GM FFB Rule...This is Substantiated because TM wheels above 75 are Less Linear which May be indicative of at the wheel Clipping or the wheel may be reducing power to protect its self due to being fed too much power.... Who Made this Rule any way??? There are Numerouse articles that invalidate this all wheels GM FFB 100 Rule from being Valid...Ex: TM Recommends GM FFB Max 75 or Less:yes:

the Most important thing is Knowing What Feel each setting brings out!!! thats the Key:yes:

I'm not talking actual car settings but the car ffb settings. You cant really get the last wheel tweaks done if you haven't settled on how youre going to adjust the car ffb.

[GrimeyDog]

I'm not talking actual car settings but the car ffb settings. You cant really get the last wheel tweaks done if you haven't settled on how youre going to adjust the car ffb.

:yes: Agree

[GrimeyDog]

Kabby Lake???....Hmmmm???

[sifupooh]

236015
after testing FCM datum on track, for my wheel, adjusting soft clips sliders from default position proved to be a bad experience, massive wheel twerking. Adjusting other sliders did improve R^2 value. to be continued at another time

[sifupooh]

236016
236017
Using Diluvian GSheets calculator, yet to test on track using proprietary wheelcheck data, but have used example t150rs settings before.

[sifupooh]

236018
236019
Diluvian GSheets calculator, using inputs close to example setting for t150rs

[sifupooh]

236020
236021
Official word regarding SG <= 1.00
Steering Gain – the gain (multiplier) applied to all steering effects (steering force, jolts, kerb rumble etc) after they have been mixed. For a clean more detailed experience set at 1.0 or below, for stronger feedback at the expense of clipping set higher (maximum value 5)

[morpwr]

236020
236021
Official word regarding SG <= 1.00

Do you turn the ffb down to control wheel strength/weight or are you trying to do it a different way? The easiest way that I got the best results from for the t300 was simply turn down the master. I run mine at 68 in every game I play. I only asked because every graph was at 75. Id set gain at 1.0 and just turn the ffb master down some if the wheel is to strong.

[GrimeyDog]

Hmmmm... Now that im on PC it will be easier to Hook up My TX458 wheel and Tweek it for Pcars because i dont have to Change out My pedals... I can Plug Pedals directly into PC:yes:.... If I have time i will do this over the weekend???

The Big diff between the CSW v2 and TX458/T300 as i see it would be the Rim Size...Because the V2 uses a Bigger Size Rim it gives More Leverage when turning... This means TF_75 Will Feel stronger using a TM wheel because of the Smaller Rim:yes:... There are a Few ways to compensate for this....1)Lower TF/RAC, 2) Lower GM FFB.....both ways should give same or similar results but im more partial to the Latter Lowering GM FFB because i would prefer pure TF/RAC_75 Game FFB at a Higher Level and use the GM FFB like a Volume Controle to adjust the at the wheel FFB feel to taste.... This is just My theory and thoughts... You can take the Full FFB signal and turn it down with GM FFB without Losing Dynamic Range... But when you try to Boost a Low FFB signal you add Static or white Noise to it and Dilute the purity of the original signal.

all Electric signals Carry Static/ White Noise... Fact:yes: the More you try to boost a signal the More you dilute the purity of the original signal... This is why for High end Home theaters they make and recommend using all types of Fancy power Cleaners... This has always been my thought behind using in Car Masters 100... IMO It is better to start with a High FFB signal and Cut it with TF, RAC & GM FFB using it as a Volume control than it is to use a Lower signal and try to boost it back up because you will add Static/White Noise to it....even if its just a Tad Bit it the end Result is Loss of Dynamic Range and Fidelity...The Static/White Noise can even Create Ghost FFB Spikes that can create unaccurate FFB Feel.

IMO the most important thing would ve to preserve the integrity of the Original FFB signal by Reducing it through the FFB chain tiols Rather than to try to boost it.

Reducing and Boosting seem the same but they are different because when Boosting you can add unwanted Static/White Noise to the equation.... Random tweeker thoughts... Hmmm

[GrimeyDog]

Do you turn the ffb down to control wheel strength/weight or are you trying to do it a different way? The easiest way that I got the best results from for the t300 was simply turn down the master. I run mine at 68 in every game I play. I only asked because every graph was at 75. Id set gain at 1.0 and just turn the ffb master down some if the wheel is to strong.

GrimeyDog Agrees with this:yes: LOL:victorious:


Im Still Lost Looking at the Graphs though:confused:... LOL.


IMO.... I think SMS should Have and Still can Commission a Team of People to Tweek for Every wheel thats supported in Pcars.... This Makes Sense... Think about all the Sales that were Lost because people Gave up because they could Not get the FFB right... Think about all the sales that they Could Gain if they Commissioned a Team to Tweek for every wheel then implimented those Tweeks into the Game as Default Wheel FFB profiles... Many People would Return to Pcars once the FFB per wheel is sorted out:yes: its still the best Sim out there Bugs and all.

Once i got My FFB tweek perfected i havent found any cars to Be FFB or Handling wise to be Bugggy... PC & PS4 other than the occasiinal FFB Not loading right when i Start a Track... But thats quickly cured by doing back to the pits and back to the Track.

[morpwr]

The graphs are pretty easy actually. You can move stuff and see what it will do to the force curve. The straighter the line the more linear the force output will be. Making it easier for your wheel to reproduce all the forces.

[sifupooh]

Do you turn the ffb down to control wheel strength/weight or are you trying to do it a different way? The easiest way that I got the best results from for the t300 was simply turn down the master. I run mine at 68 in every game I play. I only asked because every graph was at 75. Id set gain at 1.0 and just turn the ffb master down some if the wheel is to strong.
Howdy. Last night when testing I adjusted tyre force down for a lighter wheel feel. But because of maths, a lower TF X FFB = lower in hand FFB...

I need to have consistent FFB parity between thrustmaster control panel and in game master FFB settings (I've made sophomoric mistake of reducing in game FFB and not TM control panel setting, then running wheelcheck) I will run the wheelcheck app again but with lower FFB settings in control panel, then test settings in game. keep in mind that I'm on ps4 and thrustmaster control panel is accessible only on PC and I have to put wheel into ps3 mode for PC. So I reason that the wheel has two memory slots for, one for ps3/PC mode, and the other for PS4, so FFB set in TM control panel may be independent of ffb set in ps4, default TM control panel ffb is 75, default ps4 ffb is 100. To correlate the data more; generated from ps3 mode used in fcm and diluvian gsheets calc with testing experience in ps4 I will keep ffb the same.

edit: Or not according to darin gangi (http://www.isrtv.com/pc-racing/project-cars-force-feedback-tips-and-settings/) scroll down for updated note entry made 4/16/15,
The most important parameter to check that it’s set to 100 is the Force Feedback Strength parameter in the main controller menu. It defaults for many wheels at 75 and some wheels at 50 which is completely wrong. Then make sure FFB damping saturation (the next parameter under FFB strength) is set to zero. actually I just reversed the games ffb and the TM profiler,. so 100 in TM and 70 in game.. and theres no difference. feels as good as above.

[GrimeyDog]

Hmmm So what your saying is the data you Linearity program into wheel Check Gets saved and Stored to the TM wheel??? Is this Correct???

Other than this being the Case just set PS4 GM FFB to 75 or Lower then Test for Feel:yes:

TF will set your Constant wheel weight... How Heavy the wheel is during Weight Transfer.

RAC will Set the Level of FFB Effects... Bumps, Curbs Etc.

Then Readjust set GM FFB in the Car you Like best on a Bumpy track that you Know Well.

Use In Car Masters to adjust FFB Strength per Car as Needed:yes:

[sifupooh]

Hmmm So what your saying is the data you Linearity program into wheel Check Gets saved and Stored to the TM wheel??? Is this Correct???

not precisely. the data from wheel check is saved in folder (documents) on PC hard drive. The adjusted FFB setting is stored in TM control panel (the wheel)

[GrimeyDog]

not precisely. the data from wheel check is saved in folder (documents) on PC hard drive. The adjusted FFB setting is stored in TM control panel (the wheel)

Yes this is the Question.. are the altered / Readjusted Linearity settings stored in the Wheel??? or is it just Data that you use to enter into the FFB settings

[morpwr]

Yes this is the Question.. are the altered / Readjusted Linearity settings stored in the Wheel??? or is it just Data that you use to enter into the FFB settings

No they are not. The only thing the wheel will save is the control panel adjustments that make zero difference in ps4 mode. Game ffb master is the same as pc control panel master.

[GrimeyDog]

:yes: this is what i thought.

[morpwr]

Howdy. Last night when testing I adjusted tyre force down for a lighter wheel feel. But because of maths, a lower TF X FFB = lower in hand FFB...

I need to have consistent FFB parity between thrustmaster control panel and in game master FFB settings (I've made sophomoric mistake of reducing in game FFB and not TM control panel setting, then running wheelcheck) I will run the wheelcheck app again but with lower FFB settings in control panel, then test settings in game. keep in mind that I'm on ps4 and thrustmaster control panel is accessible only on PC and I have to put wheel into ps3 mode for PC. So I reason that the wheel has two memory slots for, one for ps3/PC mode, and the other for PS4, so FFB set in TM control panel may be independent of ffb set in ps4, default TM control panel ffb is 75, default ps4 ffb is 100. To correlate the data more; generated from ps3 mode used in fcm and diluvian gsheets calc with testing experience in ps4 I will keep ffb the same.

edit: Or not according to darin gangi (http://www.isrtv.com/pc-racing/project-cars-force-feedback-tips-and-settings/) scroll down for updated note entry made 4/16/15,

Leave sg at 1.0 and tf at 75 and just turn the ffb master down. Nice and easy.:D

[Haiden]

Since deadzone increases when you lower global FF, you can use SG to adjust strength without affecting the overall balance and feel of the FFB. Otherwise, you may need to adjust DRR (possible increase), as you lower FF.

[BigDad]

This thread has taken a turn for the worse ,lol
Boring!!

[morpwr]

Since deadzone increases when you lower global FF, you can use SG to adjust strength without affecting the overall balance and feel of the FFB. Otherwise, you may need to adjust DRR (possible increase), as you lower FF.

I finally put jacks tweaker files in the other day. Not having to type every car in is great!!!!:D Its a shame odd numbers aren't used unless youre using his files because it does make a noticeable difference. Its not huge but definitely noticeable on pc how good his files really are. Even the new ones work great with the exact same numbers I used on the ps4. I wish I knew why the ps4 had a different result with the new files. If I had to guess the spring issue never got fully fixed but I could be wrong and really have no way of proving that theory. Plus I'm not on the ps4 anymore.:cool:

[poirqc]

I finally put jacks tweaker files in the other day. Not having to type every car in is great!!!!:D Its a shame odd numbers aren't used unless youre using his files because it does make a noticeable difference. Its not huge but definitely noticeable on pc how good his files really are. Even the new ones work great with the exact same numbers I used on the ps4. I wish I knew why the ps4 had a different result with the new files. If I had to guess the spring issue never got fully fixed but I could be wrong and really have no way of proving that theory. Plus I'm not on the ps4 anymore.:cool:

Now, the only thing you need to do is to race with me and Grimey when we invite you ! :D ;)

[morpwr]

Now, the only thing you need to do is to race with me and Grimey when we invite you ! :D ;)

I know. I really was having technical difficulties that night. lol Computer noob. I'm starting to figure it out though. Building it was easy learning how to use it is another thing.

[spacepadrille]

I finally put jacks tweaker files in the other day. Not having to type every car in is great!!!!:D Its a shame odd numbers aren't used unless youre using his files because it does make a noticeable difference. Its not huge but definitely noticeable on pc how good his files really are. Even the new ones work great with the exact same numbers I used on the ps4. I wish I knew why the ps4 had a different result with the new files. If I had to guess the spring issue never got fully fixed but I could be wrong and really have no way of proving that theory. Plus I'm not on the ps4 anymore.:cool:

Since the last PS4 update (4.0.1 if I remember well), the FFB is really great with Jack's last files (3.0.1 Classic) and morpwr's settings. No more tweaks for me, except the tuning of the car, just race and race and race (unfortunately alone against the AI because of the lack of racers online).

[morpwr]

Since the last PS4 update (4.0.1 if I remember well), the FFB is really great with Jack's last files (3.0.1 Classic) and morpwr's settings. No more tweaks for me, except the tuning of the car, just race and race and race (unfortunately alone against the AI because of the lack of racers online).

Glad to hear that straightened it out. I know on the pc they are great so when you make the switch just plug in the same settings and go racing.

[GrimeyDog]

I know. I really was having technical difficulties that night. lol Computer noob. I'm starting to figure it out though. Building it was easy learning how to use it is another thing.

I understand exactly what you Mean..... Its a Quick Learning Curve though...There are just soo Many Little things to figure out.

[morpwr]

I understand exactly what you Mean..... Its a Quick Learning Curve though...There are just soo Many Little things to figure out.

Everything is easy its just figuring out how to do it or figuring out where it is. Google is my friend.lol

[GrimeyDog]

WoooHooo!!! #1:yes: Stock car Tune!!!

[Haiden]

I finally put jacks tweaker files in the other day. Not having to type every car in is great!!!!:D Its a shame odd numbers aren't used unless youre using his files because it does make a noticeable difference. Its not huge but definitely noticeable on pc how good his files really are. Even the new ones work great with the exact same numbers I used on the ps4. I wish I knew why the ps4 had a different result with the new files. If I had to guess the spring issue never got fully fixed but I could be wrong and really have no way of proving that theory. Plus I'm not on the ps4 anymore.:cool:

It really is awesome not having to worry about. You really can jump in an server car/track combo, without fussing over settings. I stopped using my notebook, shortly after loading Jack's files. What's also nice is, if you do need to make a change, you only need do it in one place, one time. :)

The single digit increments make a huge difference! Far more than I realized, but it makes sense, because some of the force scales are more sensitive than others. And that sensitivity can be kind of dynamic, varying depending on the other settings.

I haven't touch the PS4 since I turned on my PC. Sold my T300 and T3PA Pros a couple weeks ago. Debating whether or not to to keep the TX for a backup.

[GrimeyDog]

Everything is easy its just figuring out how to do it or figuring out where it is. Google is my friend.lol

I made the Last adjustment to the PC after i put the Liquid cooling in... i adjusted the Case Fan Speed from the Bios so i dont have to constantly adjust the case fans through the settings:yes: Now when i turn the PC on the Case Fans automatically spin at the pre set level i adjusted them to:yes: The GPU fans are Variable and work according to the Custom Fan Curve i set that activates automatically based on GPU temp:yes:

CPU Now Runs at 43c or Lower... even under the Heaviest Load:yes: Hottest GPU Never Gets above 73c other stays 60 or Lower both Quickly Cools off depending on work load.... Things are pretty Dialed in for Now....and PC is Quiet as a Mouse... My Rear V2 Wheel Fan is Louder than the PC Fans.

As it is im only using 4 case Fans 2 for intake and 2 for exhahaust... I have the Exhaust Fans in a Push Pull Config, 1fan back of Radiator pushing Air through , 1fan Front of Radiator Pulling Air through pushing it out the Case...Think im done for Now until i start over clocking but i dont see the Need for Over Clocking Now.

[morpwr]

I made the Last adjustment to the PC after i put the Liquid cooling in... i adjusted the Case Fan Speed from the Bios so i dont have to constantly adjust the case fans through the settings:yes: Now when i turn the PC on the Case Fans automatically spin at the pre set level i adjusted them to:yes: The GPU fans are Variable and work according to the Custom Fan Curve i set that activates automatically based on GPU temp:yes:

CPU Now Runs at 43c or Lower... even under the Heaviest Load:yes: Hottest GPU Never Gets above 73c other stays 60 or Lower both Quickly Cools off depending on work load.... Things are pretty Dialed in for Now....and PC is Quiet as a Mouse... My Rear V2 Wheel Fan is Louder than the PC Fans.

As it is im only using 4 case Fans 2 for intake and 2 for exhahaust... I have the Exhaust Fans in a Push Pull Config 1fan back of Radiator pushing Air through , 1fan Front of Radiator Pulling Air through Radiator pushing it out the Case...Think im done for Now until i start over clocking but i dont see the Need for Over Clocking Now.

I'm not going to worry about overclocking for now. I haven't had any problems with any games and when I checked ac I was getting 200plus fps. The hottest mine has got was 49c with huge grids. 35 plus cars.

[morpwr]

I haven't played pcars much since getting the pc. Last night I sat down and actually played for a bit. Haiden you are right about the steering ratios. Grimey wouldn't notice because he doesn't change them. On pc I couldn't touch my old ps4 times. I was off by a second or more.:( I could tell I was sliding the nose all the time but couldn't figure out why all of the sudden. On Monza short with the 49c I'm usually in the 54-55 second range and I have hit 53s. I was barely doing 58s. The glen with the ruf I was lucky to do a 1.09. Then it hit me. Steering ratio. I went back to a default ruf gt3 and first lap was a 108.1. :) Not a 107 but I could have been right there with a couple more laps. So something is different between console and pc there. And possibly exaggerated more on different wheels? The ruf on ps4 it was way to slow default and on pc its perfect. Strange.

[morpwr]

It really is awesome not having to worry about. You really can jump in an server car/track combo, without fussing over settings. I stopped using my notebook, shortly after loading Jack's files. What's also nice is, if you do need to make a change, you only need do it in one place, one time. :)

The single digit increments make a huge difference! Far more than I realized, but it makes sense, because some of the force scales are more sensitive than others. And that sensitivity can be kind of dynamic, varying depending on the other settings.

I haven't touch the PS4 since I turned on my PC. Sold my T300 and T3PA Pros a couple weeks ago. Debating whether or not to to keep the TX for a backup.

I think the rear settings make a big difference too because those go by 10s normally. I gave the ps4 to my daughter for her room.

[poirqc]

WoooHooo!!! #1:yes: Stock car Tune!!!

With the stock tune, it's a fast time indeed! I reseted the garage and had a quick go. I did 1.14.5

Nice one Grimey.

[morpwr]

With the stock tune, it's a fast time indeed! I reseted the garage and had a quick go. I did 1.14.5

Nice one Grimey.

Both you guys had fast times. I think I ended up 8th. I didn't spend a ton of time trying the bmw but I don't know how grimey brakes so late. I got back in the 1.07s with the ruf too.:)

[GrimeyDog]

I haven't played pcars much since getting the pc. Last night I sat down and actually played for a bit. Haiden you are right about the steering ratios. Grimey wouldn't notice because he doesn't change them. On pc I couldn't touch my old ps4 times. I was off by a second or more.:( I could tell I was sliding the nose all the time but couldn't figure out why all of the sudden. On Monza short with the 49c I'm usually in the 54-55 second range and I have hit 53s. I was barely doing 58s. The glen with the ruf I was lucky to do a 1.09. Then it hit me. Steering ratio. I went back to a default ruf gt3 and first lap was a 108.1. :) Not a 107 but I could have been right there with a couple more laps. So something is different between console and pc there. And possibly exaggerated more on different wheels? The ruf on ps4 it was way to slow default and on pc its perfect. Strange.

For Me the Diff between PC and Console is in the Scoops... PC feels Great with No Scoops!!! PS4 with No Scoops Feels Not so Good... The Funny thing is PC No Scoops VS PS4 with Scoops on Feel Very Much the same...Very Weird:confused: Maybe because Scoops on Forces PS4 to put out More Dynamic Range??? and PC just has More Dynamic Range by Default.

For Me the Stock Suspension works Really Well... im sure i Can get better times if i do some suspension tuning... But thats a Whole other Can of Tweeker Biz that i dont feel to open... Just Too Much work for too little time Gains according to the Times being set sooo far.... For Me 2 or 3 secs off #1 pace is acceptable.... In Most cases i find i get only 1.5 off the top time.

I just Testing using Random Cars to set times on Watkins Short... Its a Great test Track because its Short, Fast with some Tricky Curves and Braking points.... im Gonna test the Grumpert and a Few More Street Cars Followed by the Classic Lotus Cars then i will Switch Tracks... Maybe Laguna Seca Next??? any 1 have a Good suggestion for the Next Test Track??? Maybe Brathurst or Brands Hatch.... I Really Really Hate Brands Hatch... In any Game Its Not a bad Track i just Never Liked it i any Game... I see a lot of people Race it so i have to Learn it....Bruno is a Really Good Track also.

[Haiden]

I haven't played pcars much since getting the pc. Last night I sat down and actually played for a bit. Haiden you are right about the steering ratios. Grimey wouldn't notice because he doesn't change them. On pc I couldn't touch my old ps4 times. I was off by a second or more.:( I could tell I was sliding the nose all the time but couldn't figure out why all of the sudden. On Monza short with the 49c I'm usually in the 54-55 second range and I have hit 53s. I was barely doing 58s. The glen with the ruf I was lucky to do a 1.09. Then it hit me. Steering ratio. I went back to a default ruf gt3 and first lap was a 108.1. :) Not a 107 but I could have been right there with a couple more laps. So something is different between console and pc there. And possibly exaggerated more on different wheels? The ruf on ps4 it was way to slow default and on pc its perfect. Strange.

Were you using an increased Steering Sensitivity setting on console? I had mine at 60 (I think that was 10 higher than default), in addition to the tighter ratios. But I kept the default Steering Sensitivity on PC, along with the default steering ratios. In fact, there are a few cars that I think I could go a little higher on the ratios to get an even smoother turn-in. Haven't really done a side-by-side comparison, though, because I literally haven't turned on either console since getting the PC. Couldn't really do it easily, even if I wanted to, because my pedals are now connected via USB. You have to run them through the base to play on console, and that lowers the resolution quite a bit.

[morpwr]

Were you using an increased Steering Sensitivity setting on console? I had mine at 60 (I think that was 10 higher than default), in addition to the tighter ratios. But I kept the default Steering Sensitivity on PC, along with the default steering ratios. In fact, there are a few cars that I think I could go a little higher on the ratios to get an even smoother turn-in. Haven't really done a side-by-side comparison, though, because I literally haven't turned on either console since getting the PC. Couldn't really do it easily, even if I wanted to, because my pedals are now connected via USB. You have to run them through the base to play on console, and that lowers the resolution quite a bit.

I was in the beginning. I think I ended up at 60 too. I had been playing everything but pcars so when I did finally go back the other night I didn't touch the sensitivity but I did go right to the same steering ratios I had been running in everything on the ps4. On pc it doesn't work the same. I had been running 9-10s for steering ratio on the ps4 and it was perfect. On the pc its way too fast like that and I'm just using the defaults which seem to make more sense ratio wise.

[Haiden]

I was in the beginning. I think I ended up at 60 too. I had been playing everything but pcars so when I did finally go back the other night I didn't touch the sensitivity but I did go right to the same steering ratios I had been running in everything on the ps4. On pc it doesn't work the same. I had been running 9-10s for steering ratio on the ps4 and it was perfect. On the pc its way too fast like that and I'm just using the defaults which seem to make more sense ratio wise.

Was exactly the same for me.

I'm not sure if PS4 and PC are different, though, because PCars was the first sim I played on PC, and I didn't seem to have a problem with the ratios until after I had been playing AC and R3E for a while, and then went back to PCars. I figured I had just gotten used to the default ratios in those games, and was no longer conditioned to use the tighter ratios. But, like I said, I've never done a side by side comparison with console and PC. :confused:

[GrimeyDog]

I was in the beginning. I think I ended up at 60 too. I had been playing everything but pcars so when I did finally go back the other night I didn't touch the sensitivity but I did go right to the same steering ratios I had been running in everything on the ps4. On pc it doesn't work the same. I had been running 9-10s for steering ratio on the ps4 and it was perfect. On the pc its way too fast like that and I'm just using the defaults which seem to make more sense ratio wise.


Was exactly the same for me.

I'm not sure if PS4 and PC are different, though, because PCars was the first sim I played on PC, and I didn't seem to have a problem with the ratios until after I had been playing AC and R3E for a while, and then went back to PCars. I figured I had just gotten used to the default ratios in those games, and was no longer conditioned to use the tighter ratios. But, like I said, I've never done a side by side comparison with console and PC. :confused:

For Me the Steering Ratio PC, PS4 are exactly the same...No extra Tweeking Was Needed.

[morpwr]

Was exactly the same for me.

I'm not sure if PS4 and PC are different, though, because PCars was the first sim I played on PC, and I didn't seem to have a problem with the ratios until after I had been playing AC and R3E for a while, and then went back to PCars. I figured I had just gotten used to the default ratios in those games, and was no longer conditioned to use the tighter ratios. But, like I said, I've never done a side by side comparison with console and PC. :confused:

I think they are different. Again maybe differences vary between wheels. When I switched to pc the other games felt right. I wasn't turning the wheel on tight corners to where it was almost uncomfortable. Hands almost crossed. The other thing that makes me believe there is a difference is the fact I could not turn the same times I always have in the past. I immediately did turn the same times after switching the steering ratio to default on pc. Kind of hard to ignore that.

[GrimeyDog]

TF/RAC_75 RL Hand Movement VS On Screen Hand Movement...Very Very Close to 1 to 1... would Be 1 to 1 if the Animation could Keep up... But During Slow Movement you see RL Hands Match On Screen Hands 1 to 1.... as you can see from all the Wheel seesawing going through the Bus Stop and R Sweeper that i get alot of info about how car is Handling allowing Me to Make small movements to Correct and adjust the Car as Needed.

https://youtu.be/_BDVNZ84jWI


LOL... I actually ended up 4th on the Leader Boards with this Lap!!!

[GrimeyDog]

I went Back and Had another 2 lap Go at it and ended up 2nd!!!
First Place is Definitly within Striking Distance:yes: I will Try it Tomorrow when i have more time:yes:

[Haiden]

I think they are different. Again maybe differences vary between wheels. When I switched to pc the other games felt right. I wasn't turning the wheel on tight corners to where it was almost uncomfortable. Hands almost crossed. The other thing that makes me believe there is a difference is the fact I could not turn the same times I always have in the past. I immediately did turn the same times after switching the steering ratio to default on pc. Kind of hard to ignore that.

That would make sense. When I switched, I can't exactly remember how things felt. All I do remember was thinking... Man this feel so much better...LOL My times were different, but I blamed it on the rig changes--mounted screen for a real FOV, pedals connected via USB for higher resolution, and I also adjusted my brake pedals, moving them forward a little bit and increasing the resistance. I was expecting a decrease in lap times until I adjusted to the changes. That could have very well masked the ratio problems.

[GrimeyDog]

I think they are different. Again maybe differences vary between wheels. When I switched to pc the other games felt right. I wasn't turning the wheel on tight corners to where it was almost uncomfortable. Hands almost crossed. The other thing that makes me believe there is a difference is the fact I could not turn the same times I always have in the past. I immediately did turn the same times after switching the steering ratio to default on pc. Kind of hard to ignore that.

You have to Keep in Mind that Sim Racing Games try to Simulate the real Turning Ratio of the Particular car being Driven.... Ex the 2+2 mustang the Ratio is 900 while the GT3 Ruf the Ratio is 540... Pcars Pre sets the Proper Steering Ratio by default....all cars dont have the same steering Ratio so its hard to avoid the large steering wheel inputs... when you Lower the Ratio manualy if you go too low you create a twitchy steering wheel and Cause Tire Scrubbing... I find that leaving the Ratio Default works best for Me in a simulator most of the time . Games like Forza where all cars are maybe 270 + or - but basicly all cars have same Steering Ratio thats just how they are ment to drive so it will Not affect your driving smooothness.... Also because Pcars is very FFB Tweek dependent it can be tricky to really judge because if your Not Getting Proper FFB Feel you Maybe Scrubbing your tires and dont even know it because you cant feel it.

Edit: If you Look at the Video i just posted My hands are one over the other in the sweeper turn after the Bus Stop... I could Clearly Feel the Correct steering input angle.

[morpwr]

You have to Keep in Mind that Sim Racing Games try to Simulate the real Turning Ratio of the Particular car being Driven.... Ex the 2+2 mustang the Ratio is 900 while the GT3 Ruf the Ratio is 540... Pcars Pre sets the Proper Steering Ratio by default....all cars dont have the same steering Ratio so its hard to avoid the large steering wheel inputs... when you Lower the Ratio manualy if you go too low you create a twitchy steering wheel and Cause Tire Scrubbing... I find that leaving the Ratio Default works best for Me in a simulator most of the time . Games like Forza where all cars are maybe 270 + or - but basicly all cars have same Steering Ratio thats just how they are ment to drive so it will Not affect your driving smooothness.... Also because Pcars is very FFB Tweek dependent it can be tricky to really judge because if your Not Getting Proper FFB Feel you Maybe Scrubbing your tires and dont even know it because you cant feel it.

Edit: If you Look at the Video i just posted My hands are one over the other in the sweeper turn after the Bus Stop... I could Clearly Feel the Correct steering input angle.

Tire scrubbing wasn't an issue I usually dropped air pressures some to keep the tires up to temp. If I was scrubbing them a lot they would have been overheating. The other thing was it was immediately noticeable on pc I was sliding the front tires with the steering ratios I had been using on the ps4. Back to default steering ratios on pc and my times went back to normal. So something is different.

[GrimeyDog]

For Me I have Not Noticed a Diff with Steering Ratio.... Same Exact tweek used with Default Car settings... Only Notable diff for Me is the Scoop Feel PC VS PS4.... PC Scoops Off and PS4 Scoops on Feel the same...My best Guess with that is PC has More Dynamic Range than PS4 by Default.... Conclusion Scoops on With PS4 helps to create More Dynamic Range Feel.

PC with Scoops on Feels Really Good also but i find the wheel Center FFB Feel and Wheel Weight is More to My Liking with Scoops on PC Off.... For Me this was the Key that Got My Lap times Back on Track....also i think the Tires on PC Heat up and Cool off in a More realistic way than PS4.... PS4 I could just Abuse the Tires with No over Heating issue.... also when Not Pushing Hard PS4 the Tires Dont seem to Lose Heat as fast as PC either...The only cars that the Rear tires Get Cold Both systems would Be the FWD cars... But i have Not yet began to adjust Tire PSI to compensate... Still driving everything Stock.


Edit: I Need to Hook up My TX458 so i can better understand the Differences in Wheel FFB Feel....When i Last used it was on XB1 and the FFB Feel was Good but it should be Better and Closer to the V2 feel on PC with same Tweek used...Best Guess is (1) i may have to Lower TF a Tad (2) Cut in Car Masters to ??? (3) Adjust GM FFB to get best at wheel FFB Strength... Because of the TM Smaller Rim Size it Has Less Leverage so FFB May Feel Stronger but any 1 of those methods can be used to Reduce FFB Strength and Compensate for the TM Smaller Rim Siize to adjust the FFB Strength to taste Tx458 or T300.

[morpwr]

For Me I have Not Noticed a Diff with Steering Ratio.... Same Exact tweek used with Default Car settings... Only Notable diff for Me is the Scoop Feel PC VS PS4.... PC Scoops Off and PS4 Scoops on Feel the same...My best Guess with that is PC has More Dynamic Range than PS4 by Default.... Conclusion Scoops on With PS4 helps to create More Dynamic Range Feel.

PC with Scoops on Feels Really Good also but i find the wheel Center FFB Feel and Wheel Weight is More to My Liking with Scoops on PC Off.... For Me this was the Key that Got My Lap times Back on Track....also i think the Tires on PC Heat up and Cool off in a More realistic way than PS4.... PS4 I could just Abuse the Tires with No over Heating issue.... also when Not Pushing Hard PS4 the Tires Dont seem to Lose Heat as fast as PC either...The only cars that the Rear tires Get Cold Both systems would Be the FWD cars... But i have Not yet began to adjust Tire PSI to compensate... Still driving everything Stock.


Edit: I Need to Hook up My TX458 so i can better understand the Differences in Wheel FFB Feel....When i Last used it was on XB1 and the FFB Feel was Good but it should be Better and Closer to the V2 feel on PC with same Tweek used...Best Guess is (1) i may have to Lower TF a Tad (2) Cut in Car Masters to ??? (3) Adjust GM FFB to get best at wheel FFB Strength... Because of the TM Smaller Rim Size it Has Less Leverage so FFB May Feel Stronger but any 1 of those methods can be used to Reduce FFB Strength and Compensate for the TM Smaller Rim Siize to adjust the FFB Strength to taste Tx458 or T300.

You have to remember the thrustmaster wheels had the center spring issue that took months to get sorted out. I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't the only issue or it wasn't totally sorted out.

[RobboCod]

Since the last PS4 update (4.0.1 if I remember well), the FFB is really great with Jack's last files (3.0.1 Classic) and morpwr's settings. No more tweaks for me, except the tuning of the car, just race and race and race (unfortunately alone against the AI because of the lack of racers online).

That's interesting I've been sticking with JS's 2.9 but I'm tempted to try the updated settings now with us having basically same setup.

[GrimeyDog]

WoooHoooo!!! The Dog Gets another #1!!!

I would like to thank My V2, My V3 Pedals, MY Rig but most of all i would like to thank TF/RAC_75 because without it None of this would be possible:yes: LOL!!!:victorious: LOL!!!

[poirqc]

Another great night, alot of great races with GrimeyDog!

If you want a clean and fast driver, GrimeyDog is your guy!

[GrimeyDog]

Same for you Poirqc:yes: Its always Great Fast Clean Racing with you!!! The pressure,The Pressure!!! either Trying to catch you or Run away from you... its hard to keep calm and cool!!! its Nerve wracking!!! LOL

[GrimeyDog]

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?49049-New-Global-Project-cars-club-%96-Looking-for-Admins

Hey People Check out this Thread Maybe we can organize some Racing events!!!

[morpwr]

Another great night, alot of great races with GrimeyDog!

If you want a clean and fast driver, GrimeyDog is your guy!

Your annoying me.lol Just kidding. I was so close to both your times on the leaderboard at the glen and my possible laptime was actually faster then grimeys. If only I could put the whole lap together....

[morpwr]

I should have caught this sooner but I know a lot of us were turning the sensitivity up on the brakes. Dont or if you do don't add much. It upsets the car upon initial braking because it rises so fast making it harder to brake late and into a corner. It will feel weird at first when you turn it down but you will be faster with it set linear or close to it. It only took me about 20 laps to adjust and beat my old fastest times.

[GrimeyDog]

Your annoying me.lol Just kidding. I was so close to both your times on the leaderboard at the glen and my possible laptime was actually faster then grimeys. If only I could put the whole lap together....

Which Car??? I have been going through the Cars at Watkins short setting times with all of the Cars.

[morpwr]

Which Car??? I have been going through the Cars at Watkins short setting times with all of the Cars.

The bmw. I ran both the ruf and the bmw last night though trying out the linear brakes. Just to make sure the first time wasn't a fluke. I'm thinking you have a 13.80 in you yet with the bmw. I was down to 14.1 for a possible laptime with the default setup.

[GrimeyDog]

https://youtu.be/BmqueUZ0nH4

Check this out!!!

If your TV supports UHD Color/ Expanded Color depth... Most New TV's Have this....using this you can turn off Dynamic contrast, set Black Tone to Off and Get a Better Picture and Clearer picture....with the expanded Color Range there is No Need to Boost Blacks to get better Color depth.... also will give a Small boost to FPS because of Less processing of the Video signal.... I set TV to Game Mode and leave My card set to RGB... with the ycbr the color looks kinda washed out.

Random thought but Good info.... This even applys to 1080p TV's because were dealing with UHD Color Not UHD Resolution.

[GrimeyDog]

The bmw. I ran both the ruf and the bmw last night though trying out the linear brakes. Just to make sure the first time wasn't a fluke. I'm thinking you have a 13.80 in you yet with the bmw. I was down to 14.1 for a possible laptime with the default setup.

That time can Definitly be beat... I had faster times but soiled the Laps... I just stopped because i hit #1... took 10 laps or Less... I cant Remember i think i saved the Video... after i had the Lead on the Top Ghost i stopped pushing and just went to stick the time.... Theres More Time to be gained for sure.... the Stock tunes for Me are Really Good.


Watkins Short I have the #1 Times in 2 of the BMS's
BMW 320 TC & BMW M3 E30 Group A using No Assist.

[morpwr]

That time can Definitly be beat... I had faster times but soiled the Laps... I just stopped because i hit #1... took 10 laps or Less... I cant Remember i think i saved the Video... after i had the Lead on the Top Ghost i stopped pushing and just went to stick the time.... Theres More Time to be gained for sure.... the Stock tunes for Me are Really Good.


Watkins Short I have the #1 Times in 2 of the BMS's
BMW 320 TC & BMW M3 E30 Group A using No Assist.

Yeah I don't know why so many think the default setups are so horrible. Everyone ive tried you can get top 10-20 lap times without too much trouble. You just need to learn how to drive the car. Not saying there wasn't things I don't like about some of them but none of them are really bad.

[Haiden]

Yeah I don't know why so many think the default setups are so horrible. Everyone ive tried you can get top 10-20 lap times without too much trouble. You just need to learn how to drive the car. Not saying there wasn't things I don't like about some of them but none of them are really bad.

I think most of them are fine. When you're in sessions that force default setups, it's not a big deal. The only thing I don't like about some of the default setups is the gearing is too long for certain tracks. It sucks getting to the end of the longest straight and you're only topping out 5th gear.

[GrimeyDog]

Yeah I don't know why so many think the default setups are so horrible. Everyone ive tried you can get top 10-20 lap times without too much trouble. You just need to learn how to drive the car. Not saying there wasn't things I don't like about some of them but none of them are really bad.

Exactly... Before i even think about tuning i learn to drive the Car as is.... That way i know for sure what tuning the car Needs if any.

[morpwr]

I know myself I hate cars that understeer but that's just the way some cars really handle. Sure I could tune some of it out but id rather just learn to drive the car. Then if I was way off pace I could always adjust it.

[konnos]

Ever since I ve stop focusing on a single car and track I can't beat my best times, not without many laps anyway, kinda daunting that I m actually getting worse... I m off my WG short times by almost a full second with m3 and ruf. I don't think I have the perseverance to match my record times.

[morpwr]

Ever since I ve stop focusing on a single car and track I can't beat my best times, not without many laps anyway, kinda daunting that I m actually getting worse... I m off my WG short times by almost a full second with m3 and ruf. I don't think I have the perseverance to match my record times.

That's strange. Usually 10-20 laps or less and I'm right back to the same times. Youre trying to hard is my guess and the more your times are off the harder you push.

[Haiden]

That's strange. Usually 10-20 laps or less and I'm right back to the same times. Youre trying to hard is my guess and the more your times are off the harder you push.

I agree--maybe trying too hard. Because even online, going from session to session, a 10 minute quali is usually more than enough time for me to match my best. Assuming there are no idiots on the track. :) Try slowing your corner entries for a few laps, and then start increasing them as you get back into the flow of the car or track.

[GrimeyDog]

Ever since I ve stop focusing on a single car and track I can't beat my best times, not without many laps anyway, kinda daunting that I m actually getting worse... I m off my WG short times by almost a full second with m3 and ruf. I don't think I have the perseverance to match my record times.

You will get it back...Ive been driving random cars and tracks also so I'm 1/2 sec off my best GT3 Ruf times as well...usually its the Braking different zones diff cars Have that throw your times off when you get back to the car you like most...hop back in your fav car and focus it will all come back...But then its going to throw you off with the other cars!!! LOL...thats just the way it is:indecisiveness:

[Jezza819]

I think most of them are fine. When you're in sessions that force default setups, it's not a big deal. The only thing I don't like about some of the default setups is the gearing is too long for certain tracks. It sucks getting to the end of the longest straight and you're only topping out 5th gear.

I run the defaults exclusively but that's also the reason I don't run LeMans much at all. By using defaults the cars, especially prototypes, won't hit their maximum speeds. I don't really care for running prototypes at LeMans for 3:40ish lap times.

The other default I really can't stand is one the BMW Z4 GT3. it's geared so low (or is it high? I could never get that straight) that it pegs out going up the first straight at Bathurst.

[poirqc]

I always tune every cars. Some less some more. I mean, why wouldn't it adapt a car to my way of driving than the other way around! :D The tool is there, might as well use it!

[konnos]

Because I don't have the knowledge of what I should be changing to the car ;P

I know very roughly what most of the settings do, but when it comes to a combined tune, I am pretty lost. And since I only play for a few laps each car, I do not bother, unless it's something simple like tuning pressure to keep some more heat in the tires, and that can still be hit or miss.

[Haiden]

I run the defaults exclusively but that's also the reason I don't run LeMans much at all. By using defaults the cars, especially prototypes, won't hit their maximum speeds. I don't really care for running prototypes at LeMans for 3:40ish lap times.

The other default I really can't stand is one the BMW Z4 GT3. it's geared so low (or is it high? I could never get that straight) that it pegs out going up the first straight at Bathurst.

It's too low. I love that car, but it's hard to race online with the defaults for that reason. The Aston has a decent default setup, especially the gearing.


I always tune every cars. Some less some more. I mean, why wouldn't it adapt a car to my way of driving than the other way around! :D The tool is there, might as well use it!

That's my thought. I can drive the defaults and adapt just fine if the session is forcing them. But if it's not, then little things can help a lot--a click or two here and there, Diff, Bias, Pressures, AR Bars, etc--that's why they're adjustable. :) I do see and appreciate the benefit of level the field for online play, though. The same way I like session that force Real Assists.

[sifupooh]

Since deadzone increases when you lower global FF, you can use SG to adjust strength without affecting the overall balance and feel of the FFB. Otherwise, you may need to adjust DRR (possible increase), as you lower FF.
thank you. i still have many pages to go through in forums regarding ffb. process had been; 1) read page 1 of sticky thread. 2) identify issue. 3) ask question. 4) apply solution. 5) test. 6) see step 1. Then another step was added, 1a) speed read through thread and or use search function for key words. Now I discovered in another thread, the skidpad at mojave test track, to search for grip levels, hud,clipping. Last weekend I concluded linearity is best for direct drive wheel and for t150rs, feel is path to travel. Just now in jack spade thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files/page285&highlight=skidpan) I read about optimal ffb range for 'consumer wheels' between 40-80 of range where wheel is closer to linearity; to achieve important ffb (slip, cornering forces) info optimal linear range. I'm in a looped cycle of confusion to clarity to confusion

[Haiden]

thank you. i still have many pages to go through in forums regarding ffb. process had been; 1) read page 1 of sticky thread. 2) identify issue. 3) ask question. 4) apply solution. 5) test. 6) see step 1. Then another step was added, 1a) speed read through thread and or use search function for key words. Now I discovered in another thread, the skidpad at mojave test track, to search for grip levels, hud,clipping. Last weekend I concluded linearity is best for direct drive wheel and for t150rs, feel is path to travel. Just now in jack spade thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files/page285&highlight=skidpan) I read about optimal ffb range for 'consumer wheels' between 40-80 of range where wheel is closer to linearity; to achieve important ffb (slip, cornering forces) info optimal linear range. I'm in a looped cycle of confusion to clarity to confusion

If you post your current settings here, along with the issues you're having/trying to resolve, then people could give you more specific advice and things to try. You'll probably get varying opinions and tips, but I think it would be easier than skimming through threads. There's a lot of info out there. And some of it may be old and no longer considered best practice.

[sifupooh]

FFB Strength - 70.00
Tire Force - 75.00 (initially set to 87; assumption FFB70 X TF87 = 80 FFB, value input into thrustmaster control panel and then ran FCM)
Per Wheel Movement - 0.00
Per Wheel Movement Squared - 0.00
Wheel Position Smoothing - 4.00 (default)

Deadzone Removal Range - 0.14 (fcm 1.20 with thrustmaster control panel setting set to 80FFB)
Deadzone Removal Falloff - 2.00 (10-20% range of DRR 0.014-0.028)

Linkage Scale - 0.00
Linkage Stiffness - 100.00
Linkage Damping - 100.00

Relative Adjust Gain - 101.00 ((official guide 0.70) because (I prefer Relative Adjust Gain, which is sort of the overall power of the the processing of the FFB signal, to be dialed back a little bit from default, so about 0.70))

Relative Adjust Bleed - 0.20 ((official guide) recommends 0.20 (However, I prefer the Relative Adjust Bleed to be a little higher than default at about 0.20. A higher bleed, which is more time for the dynamic relative force to fade off, allows for more useful “information” to come through in the high forces. Too high of a bleed however results is “stickiness” of force, which can start to feel very wrong.))

Relative Adjust Clamp - 0.85 (official guide says 0.85 ((At the default, which is nearly 1.0, relative adjust mainly working only in the force reducing direction (half of the signal). You can feel it that way, but I prefer to have a little more headroom to feel relative adjust fully, so I set this to 0.85))

Scoop Knee - 0.52 from FCM ((official guide says 0.70)) for road feel higher is better

Scoop Reduction - 0.21 (FCM says 0.69 but official guide says 0.15 (Poirc - I should point in the first post that high Scoops Reduction values should be avoided. For now this tool is good to point FFB deadzone of a wheel. here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35147-Baseline-Wheel-FFB-Values-Google-Sheet-amp-FCM-Universal&p=1084494&highlight=periodic#post1084494))

Soft Clipping (Half Input) - 0.50 suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33710-Temporary-solution-for-FFB-BUG-Thrustmaster-TX-458-%28may-work-for-T500-T300%29) (official guide "less than 1.0 will amplify some lower force, and reduce larger forces. Greater than 1.0 will reduce all forces.")

Ermo says "When we talk about 'clipping' we're talking about sending torque values from the pCARS FFB subsystem that are beyond the amount of torque that the FFB wheel can produce. This is one of the reasons why it is generally a good idea to leave the in-game FFB knob at 100 -- it ensures that your FFB wheel is configured to deliver the maximum possible amount of torque into your hands."

Soft Clipping (Full Output) - 2.50 suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33710-Temporary-solution-for-FFB-BUG-Thrustmaster-TX-458-%28may-work-for-T500-T300%29) (Official guide "since that will give us more dynamic range and reduce the amount of Scoop we’ll need. This is a bit trial and error, because this operates on the input signal to the Soft Clipper. At 1.0 we know by definition we’ll be back to clipping the same amount as without the soft clipper, so we know to go higher than 1.0. After some iterations I come to 2.1")

Menu Spring Strength - 0.40 ((default at 0.70 (The strength of the wheel centering spring in the front end and in-game pause menu.) Patch 2.5))

Low Speed Spring Coefficient - 1.00 (((Low Speed Spring Coefficient & Saturation – The weight of the steering at slow speeds (<10mph) and when the car is stationary. The saturation is the maximum force for the spring and the coefficient is how quickly the spring takes effect. To avoid “cogging / notching” effects when stationary its best to leave the spring coefficient high and lower the saturation.) Patch 2.5))

Low Speed Spring Saturation - 0.80

Steering Gain - 1.00 (The gain (multiplier) applied to all steering effects (steering force, jolts, kerb rumble etc) after they have been mixed. For a clean more detailed experience set at 1.0 or below, for stronger feedback at the expense of clipping set higher (maximum value 5) patch 2.5

[morpwr]

FFB Strength - 70.00
Tire Force - 75.00 (initially set to 87; assumption FFB70 X TF87 = 80 FFB, value input into thrustmaster control panel and then ran FCM)
Per Wheel Movement - 0.00
Per Wheel Movement Squared - 0.00
Wheel Position Smoothing - 4.00 (default)

Deadzone Removal Range - 0.14 (fcm 1.20 with thrustmaster control panel setting set to 80FFB)
Deadzone Removal Falloff - 2.00 (10-20% range of DRR 0.014-0.028)

Linkage Scale - 0.00
Linkage Stiffness - 100.00
Linkage Damping - 100.00

Relative Adjust Gain - 101.00 ((official guide 0.70) because (I prefer Relative Adjust Gain, which is sort of the overall power of the the processing of the FFB signal, to be dialed back a little bit from default, so about 0.70))

Relative Adjust Bleed - 0.20 ((official guide) recommends 0.20 (However, I prefer the Relative Adjust Bleed to be a little higher than default at about 0.20. A higher bleed, which is more time for the dynamic relative force to fade off, allows for more useful “information” to come through in the high forces. Too high of a bleed however results is “stickiness” of force, which can start to feel very wrong.))

Relative Adjust Clamp - 0.85 (official guide says 0.85 ((At the default, which is nearly 1.0, relative adjust mainly working only in the force reducing direction (half of the signal). You can feel it that way, but I prefer to have a little more headroom to feel relative adjust fully, so I set this to 0.85))

Scoop Knee - 0.52 from FCM ((official guide says 0.70)) for road feel higher is better

Scoop Reduction - 0.21 (FCM says 0.69 but official guide says 0.15 (Poirc - I should point in the first post that high Scoops Reduction values should be avoided. For now this tool is good to point FFB deadzone of a wheel. here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?35147-Baseline-Wheel-FFB-Values-Google-Sheet-amp-FCM-Universal&p=1084494&highlight=periodic#post1084494))

Soft Clipping (Half Input) - 0.50 suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33710-Temporary-solution-for-FFB-BUG-Thrustmaster-TX-458-%28may-work-for-T500-T300%29) (official guide "less than 1.0 will amplify some lower force, and reduce larger forces. Greater than 1.0 will reduce all forces.")

Soft Clipping (Full Output) - 2.50 suggested here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33710-Temporary-solution-for-FFB-BUG-Thrustmaster-TX-458-%28may-work-for-T500-T300%29) (Official guide "since that will give us more dynamic range and reduce the amount of Scoop we’ll need. This is a bit trial and error, because this operates on the input signal to the Soft Clipper. At 1.0 we know by definition we’ll be back to clipping the same amount as without the soft clipper, so we know to go higher than 1.0. After some iterations I come to 2.1")

Menu Spring Strength - 0.40 ((default at 0.70 (The strength of the wheel centering spring in the front end and in-game pause menu.) Patch 2.5))

Low Speed Spring Coefficient - 1.00 (((Low Speed Spring Coefficient & Saturation – The weight of the steering at slow speeds (<10mph) and when the car is stationary. The saturation is the maximum force for the spring and the coefficient is how quickly the spring takes effect. To avoid “cogging / notching” effects when stationary its best to leave the spring coefficient high and lower the saturation.) Patch 2.5))

Low Speed Spring Saturation - 0.80

Steering Gain - 1.00 (The gain (multiplier) applied to all steering effects (steering force, jolts, kerb rumble etc) after they have been mixed. For a clean more detailed experience set at 1.0 or below, for stronger feedback at the expense of clipping set higher (maximum value 5) patch 2.5

Everything looks reasonable. But I would try turning off wps. Its hurts the small details so if you don't need to run it I wouldn't. The other thing I would do is turn off the soft clipping stuff and try it. Just use the fcm numbers for the ffb master value youre running and you should be pretty close. You may find youll want to turn the rag back up some.

[morpwr]

Because I don't have the knowledge of what I should be changing to the car ;P

I know very roughly what most of the settings do, but when it comes to a combined tune, I am pretty lost. And since I only play for a few laps each car, I do not bother, unless it's something simple like tuning pressure to keep some more heat in the tires, and that can still be hit or miss.

Ive seen some very good cheat sheets to help with tuning. Basically gives you the issue and options to adjust. Im sure you can search them in here.But if you stick with one adjustment at a time you cant really hurt yourself too bad and youll learn what it does. Most of the time youre not going to change a bunch of things at the same time because you really wont know what helped and what didn't.

[morpwr]

Grimey and poirqc,
Thanks for the invite last night. That was interesting with tracks and cars I haven't or don't normally run. I need to get more comfortable online. I have no idea what I was thinking picking the rocket bunny in the first race. I forgot how loose that car is with the default setup. The mustang was nuts with everyone flat spotting tires, blowing them and spinning out. Grimey it wasn't a bug.lol I had it happen in qualifying and the race. I made it to the end of lap 8 before my left front blew and figured screw it I'm in second I can make it on the flat. Maybe ill pit next time.lol

[konnos]

Be careful of poirqc's idea of fun, he made us race Ariels on rain... Quite torturous!

[poirqc]

Be careful of poirqc's idea of fun, he made us race Ariels on rain... Quite torturous!

I choose real weather that time. I didn't think that an Ariel in rain would be that demanding! I agree, it was a little too much!

[morpwr]

Be careful of poirqc's idea of fun, he made us race Ariels on rain... Quite torturous!

He picked some interesting combinations last night for sure.

[sifupooh]

236115


I created a matrix of wheels relative to my own, to understand others ffb experience and get an idea of fidelity...

[SIZE=1]*disclaimer[- the numbers in above matrix are purely fictional. Any resemblance to manufacturer's numbers is entirely coincidental/SIZE]

[GrimeyDog]

Grimey and poirqc,
Thanks for the invite last night. That was interesting with tracks and cars I haven't or don't normally run. I need to get more comfortable online. I have no idea what I was thinking picking the rocket bunny in the first race. I forgot how loose that car is with the default setup. The mustang was nuts with everyone flat spotting tires, blowing them and spinning out. Grimey it wasn't a bug.lol I had it happen in qualifying and the race. I made it to the end of lap 8 before my left front blew and figured screw it I'm in second I can make it on the flat. Maybe ill pit next time.lol

It was a Glitch... I went to the Pits Lap 8 and Changed tires and when i came out the Pits i had the same problem... The wheel was Bouncing all over the place... The Car was also Hopping up and down like i was Hitting Switchs in a 64!!! LOL

[morpwr]

It was a Glitch... I went to the Pits Lap 8 and Changed tires and when i came out the Pits i had the same problem... The wheel was Bouncing all over the place... The Car was also Hopping up and diwn like i was Hitting Switchs in a 64!!! LOL

Lol I thought you meant the flat spotting. I wonder if it didn't change them.

[poirqc]

It was a Glitch... I went to the Pits Lap 8 and Changed tires and when i came out the Pits i had the same problem... The wheel was Bouncing all over the place... The Car was also Hopping up and diwn like i was Hitting Switchs in a 64!!! LOL

That bug sucks... I rarely get it. A shame you had it there.

[GrimeyDog]

Lol I thought you meant the flat spotting. I wonder if it didn't change them.

The flat spotting i can live with... I like that feature very much... It demands that you are smooth and Not abuse your tires!!!
also i like keeping mechanical failures on in a public lobby... it stops people from closing Radiator and brake Ducts to get a speed boost...
I wonder if Mechanical failures on has anything to do with the tire glitching???

[BigDad]

Has anyone started putting mods in pCars yet?
Ive been adding tracks and cars to AMS, now have 70 locations and over 150 layouts. Unbelievably great mods too.
All the mods i put in AC seem to ruin the feel and look of the game but with AMS they just add to it.
Im juat wondering how the quality of mods are for pCars?

[konnos]

I only know of four cars, no track mods. If you see Ferraris etc they are not legal.

[Jack Spade]

Has anyone started putting mods in pCars yet?
Ive been adding tracks and cars to AMS, now have 70 locations and over 150 layouts. Unbelievably great mods too.
All the mods i put in AC seem to ruin the feel and look of the game but with AMS they just add to it.
Im juat wondering how the quality of mods are for pCars?

Car mods/links posted in this forum are on par with SMS stuff.

[morpwr]

The flat spotting i can live with... I like that feature very much... It demands that you are smooth and Not abuse your tires!!!
also i like keeping mechanical failures on in a public lobby... it stops people from closing Radiator and brake Ducts to get a speed boost...
I wonder if Mechanical failures on has anything to do with the tire glitching???

You know whats funny. I ran the mustang last night and had it happen to me. You could see it from outside the car it looked like it had hydraulics and actually flipped the car when it started in the corner. I never had this one before. But that brings up the question. Have you guys had the ffb be weaker when online? It definitely felt different from when I tried the rocket bunny and mustang last night. It was weird I could feel everything but the wheel weight was much lighter.

[GrimeyDog]

Sexy!!! changing oil, Brakes etc getting it ready to sit up for the winter...under the hood is just dam sexy!!! Vroooom Vroooom!!!!
Nope not going to clean the motor/ under the hood until spring time... I dive it sometime in the winter when there's no snow so cleaning it would be a waste of time right Now. ....she still a baby only 60k on it.

[morpwr]

Sexy!!! changing oil, Brakes etc getting it ready to sit up for the winter...under the hood is just dam sexy!!! Vroooom Vroooom!!!!
Nope not going to clean the motor/ under the hood until spring time... I dive it sometime in the winter when there's no snow so cleaning it would be a waste of time right Now. ....she still a baby only 60k on it.

No studded snows for the new York winters?

[GrimeyDog]

The Z is fun in the snow but anything more than 2 inches its a pain to drive... even on Continental DWS tires the rear likes to dance around every Gear change...i have staggered rims with 10in wide tires on rear so they act like a snow shoe!!!...most of the Winter its parked and i drive the SUV.

[poirqc]

The Z is fun in the snow but anything more than 2 inches its a pain to drive... even on Continental DWS tires the rear likes to dance around every Gear change...i have staggered rims with 10in wide tires on rear so they act like a snow shoe!!!...most of the Winter its parked and i drive the SUV.

I miss drifting in 15 inchs of snow with a loaded up Econoline! God that was fun! :D

[GrimeyDog]

LOL...

[morpwr]

I miss drifting in 15 inchs of snow with a loaded up Econoline! God that was fun! :D

That might explain your choices for races.:p

[GrimeyDog]

Hmmm I might have to learn how to Make Tweeker Files...Can some one explaim how to do this.

My understanding when using JS tweeker files his files over ride the In car settings so they cant be adjusted or even if in car settings are adjusted they have No affect... Is this the case??? if the in car settings can be adjusted does it save the settings to all cars or just that particular car???

[morpwr]

Hmmm I might have to learn how to Make Tweeker Files...Can some one explaim how to do this.

My understanding when using JS tweeker files his files over ride the In car settings so they cant be adjusted or even if in car settings are adjusted they have No affect... Is this the case??? if the in car settings can be adjusted does it save the settings to all cars or just that particular car???

Once you install his files it overrides the game settings. So yes the in car settings make no difference.

[GrimeyDog]

Once you install his files it overrides the game settings. So yes the in car settings make no difference.

Looks like i will be going back to school to learn to write XML tweeker files

[Roger Prynne]

All you have to do is edit the files to your liking.....

For example...... FFBTweakers_BMW_M3_E30_GroupA.xml


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>

<!-- Default force feedback tweakers. -->

<config>
<value TopologyVersion="4" />

<value SpindleMasterScale="0.48" />

<value SpindleArm="15.0" />

<value SpindleFxScale="1.0" />
<value SpindleFxLoPass="0.2" />

<value SpindleFyScale="0.50" />
<value SpindleFyLoPass="0.0" />

<value SpindleFzScale="0.8" />
<value SpindleFzLoPass="0.10" />

<value SpindleMzScale="0.6" />
<value SpindleMzLoPass="0.05" />

<value SoPScale="0.48" />

<value SoPLateral="0.0" />
<value SoPDifferential="0.44" />
<value SoPLoPass="0.0" />

<value RelativeGain="0.0" />
<value RelativeBleed="0.0" />
<value RelativeClamp="0.0" />

<value ArmScale="0.0" />
<value ArmMass="10.0" />
<value ArmStiffness="1.0e7" />
<value ArmDamping="1.0" />

<value GutScale="0.0" />
<value GutLongScale="0.0" />
<value GutMass="50.0" />
<value GutStiffness="1.0e6" />
<value GutDamping="10.0" />

<value ScoopKnee="0.0" />
<value ScoopReduction="0.0" />

<value TightenCenterRange="0.0" />
<value TightenCenterFalloff="0.1" />

<value SoftClip="0.0" />

<value BaseDrag="-0.0008" />
<value BaseDragSqr="0.0004" />
<value BaseDragLoPass="0.04" />

<value DisableDynamicSpring="true" />
<value DisableLockSpring="false" />

<value DisableScrub="true" />
<value DisableThrottleVibe="true" />
<value DisableJolt="true" />
<value DisableWheelSpin="true" />
<value DisableGearChange="true" />
<value DisableRumbleStrip="true" />

</config>

[Mahjik]

Hmmm I might have to learn how to Make Tweeker Files...Can some one explaim how to do this.

My understanding when using JS tweeker files his files over ride the In car settings so they cant be adjusted or even if in car settings are adjusted they have No affect... Is this the case??? if the in car settings can be adjusted does it save the settings to all cars or just that particular car???

You can use a specific car tweak file, or a generic tweak file for all cars. There is a specific naming scheme for the files which controls that part. As for the content of the files, whatever you define in the XML files will override the setting in-game. i.e. if you define a value for SpindleMasterScale, then anything you adjust in-game will be ignored. However, whatever you DO NOT define in the XML files can be adjusted even if you have other paramaters defined in the XML. example, you define SpindleMasterScale but not SpindleArm in the XML file. This means any in-game change to SpindleMasterScale will be ignored, but in-game changes to SpindleArm will take effect.

I've found the best use of SMS's system is to define a minimal base global setting for all cars that only contains a few settings. Then I alter other settings (mostly scale type settings) per car in-game.

[GrimeyDog]

All you have to do is edit the files to your liking.....

For example...... FFBTweakers_BMW_M3_E30_GroupA.xml


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>

<!-- Default force feedback tweakers. -->

<config>
<value TopologyVersion="4" />

<value SpindleMasterScale="0.48" />

<value SpindleArm="15.0" />

<value SpindleFxScale="1.0" />
<value SpindleFxLoPass="0.2" />

<value SpindleFyScale="0.50" />
<value SpindleFyLoPass="0.0" />

<value SpindleFzScale="0.8" />
<value SpindleFzLoPass="0.10" />

<value SpindleMzScale="0.6" />
<value SpindleMzLoPass="0.05" />

<value SoPScale="0.48" />

<value SoPLateral="0.0" />
<value SoPDifferential="0.44" />
<value SoPLoPass="0.0" />

<value RelativeGain="0.0" />
<value RelativeBleed="0.0" />
<value RelativeClamp="0.0" />

<value ArmScale="0.0" />
<value ArmMass="10.0" />
<value ArmStiffness="1.0e7" />
<value ArmDamping="1.0" />

<value GutScale="0.0" />
<value GutLongScale="0.0" />
<value GutMass="50.0" />
<value GutStiffness="1.0e6" />
<value GutDamping="10.0" />

<value ScoopKnee="0.0" />
<value ScoopReduction="0.0" />

<value TightenCenterRange="0.0" />
<value TightenCenterFalloff="0.1" />

<value SoftClip="0.0" />

<value BaseDrag="-0.0008" />
<value BaseDragSqr="0.0004" />
<value BaseDragLoPass="0.04" />

<value DisableDynamicSpring="true" />
<value DisableLockSpring="false" />

<value DisableScrub="true" />
<value DisableThrottleVibe="true" />
<value DisableJolt="true" />
<value DisableWheelSpin="true" />
<value DisableGearChange="true" />
<value DisableRumbleStrip="true" />

</config>



I am going to study this!!! I should be able to figure it out... It doesnt Seem that complex... I just Need to be clear on the labeling for each setting:yes:

Thanks for this!!!

[GrimeyDog]

You can use a specific car tweak file, or a generic tweak file for all cars. There is a specific naming scheme for the files which controls that part. As for the content of the files, whatever you define in the XML files will override the setting in-game. i.e. if you define a value for SpindleMasterScale, then anything you adjust in-game will be ignored. However, whatever you DO NOT define in the XML files can be adjusted even if you have other paramaters defined in the XML. example, you define SpindleMasterScale but not SpindleArm in the XML file. This means any in-game change to SpindleMasterScale will be ignored, but in-game changes to SpindleArm will take effect.

I've found the best use of SMS's system is to define a minimal base global setting for all cars that only contains a few settings. Then I alter other settings (mostly scale type settings) per car in-game.

Yes:yes: This is exactly what i want to do... I the use same FFB settings in every car so 1 generic file to Rule all cars would work fine:yes:

[Jack Spade]

You can use a specific car tweak file, or a generic tweak file for all cars. There is a specific naming scheme for the files which controls that part. As for the content of the files, whatever you define in the XML files will override the setting in-game. i.e. if you define a value for SpindleMasterScale, then anything you adjust in-game will be ignored. However, whatever you DO NOT define in the XML files can be adjusted even if you have other paramaters defined in the XML. example, you define SpindleMasterScale but not SpindleArm in the XML file. This means any in-game change to SpindleMasterScale will be ignored, but in-game changes to SpindleArm will take effect.

I've found the best use of SMS's system is to define a minimal base global setting for all cars that only contains a few settings. Then I alter other settings (mostly scale type settings) per car in-game.

This is not correct, since FFB topology 4 a cross mix of tweaker file/setup menu is not possible anymore, this line sets the course. <value TopologyVersion="4" />
If a line is missing in the file the game uses an internal default value, I think it´s 1.0, the setup menu is ignored completely.

[GrimeyDog]

Hmmm Looking at the XML file on My phone its already starting to make sense!!!

<value SpindleFyScale="0.50" /> (This = Fy Setting)
<value SpindleFyLoPass="0.0" /> (This = Fy Smoothing setting)

am i correct???

Once i get the XML file sorted with My settings i just label it FFB and the 1 file will Rule all Cars... Correct???

Wow!!! I cant wait to get home to My PC!!!

[GrimeyDog]

This is not correct, since FFB topology 4 a cross mix of tweaker file/setup menu is not possible anymore, this line sets the course. <value TopologyVersion="4" />
If a line is missing in the file the game uses an internal default value, I think it´s 1.0, the setup menu is ignored completely.

JS can you Eplain how i could Make a XML file... I would Greatly apreciate it.... What would i have to change to just enter My Car FFB and leave everything else Stock...i dont change the arm angle... I just Need to enter the Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP values.

I only Need 1 file because i use the same FFB settings in every car.

Thanks for any help or input that you might give.

[Jack Spade]

JS can you Eplain how i could Make a XML file... I would Greatly apreciate it.... What would i have to change to just enter My Car FFB and leave everything else Stock...i dont change the arm angle... I just Need to enter the Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz & SOP values.

I only Need 1 file because i use the same FFB settings in every car.

Thanks for any help or input that you might give.

Again, with FFB topology 4 the file overrides the FFB setup menu completely all settings on that page are ignored, IMPORTANT so everything must be set in that file.

Download my tweaker files, take any file and rename it to "FFBTweakers" this turns it into a global file, one file for all cars....set the values of your personal default...finished.
Create a folder named "FFB" in My Documents/ Project Cars, put the file in there ...finished, now start the game if you didn´t make a mistake it should work.

Value 100 setup menu = 1.0 tweaker file

I forgot...download Notepad++ from somewhere as text editor.

[GrimeyDog]

Again, with FFB topology 4 the file overrides the FFB setup menu completely all settings on that page are ignored, IMPORTANT so everything must be set in that file.

Download my tweaker files, take any file and rename it to "FFBTweakers" this turns it into a global file, one file for all cars....set the values of your personal default...finished.
Create a folder named "FFB" in My Documents/ Project Cars, put the file in there ...finished, now start the game if you didn´t make a mistake it should work.

Value 100 setup menu = 1.0 tweaker file

I forgot...download Notepad++ from somewhere as text editor.

Question...The arm angles for some cars are different...Do i leave it blank and the game will set the default arm angle???

All i Need entered is the same FFB settings for every car everything else can be default???

Thanks for your input.... Im Not PC programmer savy...LOL

[Mahjik]

This is not correct, since FFB topology 4 a cross mix of tweaker file/setup menu is not possible anymore, this line sets the course. <value TopologyVersion="4" />
If a line is missing in the file the game uses an internal default value, I think it´s 1.0, the setup menu is ignored completely.

I'm assuming the previous topology is still functioning as is then because I definitely do not define the Spindle Master Scale in my global tweak file. And I can definitely alter that value per car and it works.

[Jack Spade]

I'm assuming the previous topology is still functioning as is then because I definitely do not define the Spindle Master Scale in my global tweak file. And I can definitely alter that value per car and it works.

Do the following, take a file that´s complete, delete these 2 lines <value SpindleMzScale="0.55" /> , <value SpindleFyScale="0.35" /> (values dont matter here)
Set Mz Scale and Fy Scale at zero on the menu, this should give you no more force, right? but you will notice a lot force.

[Mahjik]

Do the following, take a file that´s complete, delete these 2 lines <value SpindleMzScale="0.55" /> , <value SpindleFyScale="0.35" /> (values dont matter here)
Set Mz Scale and Fy Scale at zero on the menu, this should give you no more force, right? but you will notice a lot force.

That's not what I'm referring to and I'm not sure how you inferred that from my comment.

[Jack Spade]

Question...The arm angles for some cars are different...Do i leave it blank and the game will set the default arm angle???

All i Need entered is the same FFB settings for every car everything else can be default???

Thanks for your input.... Im Not PC programmer savy...LOL

I again checked the system to be 100% certain, the game ignores everything on the setup menu of a certain car with the correct system name, if there´s no file of a that car
the setup menu works normal.
If there´s a global tweaker file, this name "FFBTweakers", the game ignores the setup menu of every car.
With FFB topology 4 there is no more cross setting of one thing in the file and another thing on the setup menu. Everything must be set in the tweaker file
Deleting a tweaker line, the game replaces it by an internal default, fixed value, not with something on the menu.

In Grimey´s case.

Make several copies of you global default file, rename the ones that have a different Arm Angle setting (or any other thing). Copy and paste those car names in question
from my tweaker files, note names must be 100% correct.... Put all those individual files in the FFB folder side by side to your global file, edit whatever needs to be different
to your global file. Believe me that´s the only possible way.

[GrimeyDog]

I again checked the system to be 100% certain, the game ignores everything on the setup menu of a certain car with the correct system name, if there´s no file of a that car
the setup menu works normal.
If there´s a global tweaker file, this name "FFBTweakers", the game ignores the setup menu of every car.
With FFB topology 4 there is no more cross setting of one thing in the file and another thing on the setup menu. Everything must be set in the tweaker file

In Grimey´s case.

Make several copies of you global default file, rename the ones that have a different Arm Angle setting (or any other thing). Copy and paste those car names in question
from my tweaker files, note names must be 100% correct.... Put all those individual files in the FFB folder side by side to your global file, edit whatever needs to be different
to your global file. Believe me that´s the only possible way.

Thank you JS... your help is greatly appreciated:yes:

[poirqc]

I must stress with what Js suggested.

Get notepad++. It's a super usefull program to manage text files. It'll make your life easier if you use it to play with tweaker files.

[GrimeyDog]

I must stress with what Js suggested.

Get notepad++. It's a super usefull program to manage text files. It'll make your life easier if you use it to play with tweaker files.

its already downloaded and im getting ready to test the first file:yes: for sure you know i did the Ruff first!!!

No Question i still need to set the Globals right???

[Roger Prynne]

its already downloaded and im getting ready to test the first file:yes: for sure you know i did the Ruff first!!!

No Question i still need to set the Globals right???

Yep

Also with notepad++ you can change the same values (on one line) in the tweakers in all the files at once.... saving loads of time.

[poirqc]

its already downloaded and im getting ready to test the first file:yes: for sure you know i did the Ruff first!!!

No Question i still need to set the Globals right???

If i'm not mistaken, even if the globals needs to be in the tweekerfiles, they're not taken into account. Since you're using the tweaker files to enter the same values you current values, you shouldn't need to play with the globals.

[GrimeyDog]

Ha haaaa!!! GrimeyDog Now has Tweeker Files:applause:

Not Finished with all of it yet but i did test and its working:yes:

Thanks to all for your Help....
Special thanks to Jack Spade for His Ground Breaking work on the Tweeker Files.... He paved the way to make this possible...Many Thanks and Kudos JS Thanks for your Help:applause:

[Jack Spade]

Ha haaaa!!! GrimeyDog Now has Tweeker Files:applause:

Not Finished with all of it yet but i did test and its working:yes:

Thanks to all for your Help....
Special thanks to Jack Spade for His Ground Breaking work on the Tweeker Files.... He paved the way to make this possible...Many Thanks and Kudos JS Thanks for your Help:applause:

One more thing though before you go on. I know you are fan of a global tweaker, IMO you have much more options in the future using an individual car file
even though it´s basically the same setting for all of them at the moment. Suggestion, we have 130 cars in game including the mods, copy your global tweaker
130 times, copy/paste car names from mine, adjust anything any time if needed to. More work to do right now but much clearer structure, service friendly
whatever comes ahead.
Here comes the first one. There´s a Slow Speed Spring bug on the Lotus 49, needs this tweaker line as workaround : <value DisableSlowSpring="false" />

[poirqc]

One more thing though before you go on. I know you are fan of a global tweaker, IMO you have much more options in the future using an individual car file
even though it´s basically the same setting for all of them at the moment. Suggestion, we have 130 cars in game including the mods, copy your global tweaker
130 times, copy/paste car names from mine, adjust anything any time if needed to. More work to do right now but much clearer structure, service friendly
whatever comes ahead.
Here comes the first one. There´s a Slow Speed Spring bug on the Lotus 49, needs this tweaker line as workaround : <value DisableSlowSpring="false" />

This is where notepad++ comes handy. You can search and replace text in all the files included in a folder. That way, you don't have to do it 130 times! :D

I'll try to dig how to do that somewhere.

[GrimeyDog]

I have been trying to do that also... I can Make it work.

[BigDad]

http://www.eteknix.com/evga-gtx-1070-1080-suffering-overheating-issues/
Keep an eye on your GPU's temps.
Might keep you warm this winter.

[poirqc]

I have been trying to do that also... I can Make it work.

That's the guide i was looking for:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-find-and-replace-words-in-multiple-files/

[Jack Spade]

This is where notepad++ comes handy. You can search and replace text in all the files included in a folder. That way, you don't have to do it 130 times! :D

I'll try to dig how to do that somewhere.

I´m aware of this feature, used to set Low Pass on all cars, it´s a bit tricky so didn´t suggest it here.

[GrimeyDog]

http://www.eteknix.com/evga-gtx-1070-1080-suffering-overheating-issues/
Keep an eye on your GPU's temps.
Might keep you warm this winter.

Thanx... My Hottest Card is the 1 that runs the TV.... it Runs at Max 73°c with a 20 car Grid... it has reached 77°c when i was testing it with Thunderstorm Races and all ultra and High settings.... The Other card Runs at 59 to 63°c Both Cool off Quickly when Not under load... I normaly have 16 car Grid and clear weather unles im doing Career and the game puts random weather.... Since i put the water cooler and adjusted tilhe Case fans from the Bios the Case is Much Cooler...Im still using only 4 case fans 2 intake 2 exhaust... I set the exhaust to run at constant 75% they are still whisper quiet and keep Case and CPU cool at 43°c... I have the exhaust in a Push pull config through the radiator and out of the case.

I have been keeping a eye on temps.

I bought the 2yr Microcenter warrenty so i will take them back if any probs....

Thanks for that info.

Edit: Hmmm... I will use this to My Advantage!!! The lady told Me if i ever had a problem with the cards that i didnt have to get the same cards... I will use this as a Excuse to trade up to a EVGA 1080 SLI Combo!!! Hmmm.... Im Gonna go to Micro Center some time this week.

[GrimeyDog]

That's the guide i was looking for:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-find-and-replace-words-in-multiple-files/

I found a easy way... I open all the files in the folder at 1 time in the ++ tab bar... Edit the current File Close the tab and the next file is automatically there on Screen.... That saved alot of time and keeps Me from Losing My place as to what car file is Next.

I finished it last Night its working well so far.

only thing i question is when the Arm angle is 1500 do i just put in 15??? There are a few cars with the Arm angle -499 I was stumped as what to put for that... I put -499... 1 of the Ariel atoms is like that??? i forget which 1 it is though....Any Ideas what value is should set to keep the default arm angle???

[Roger Prynne]

I found a easy way... I open all the files in the folder at 1 time in the ++ tab bar... Edit the current File Close the tab and the next file is automatically there on Screen.... That saved alot of time and keeps Me from Losing My place as to what car file is Next.

I finished it last Night its working well so far.

only thing i question is when the Arm angle is 1500 do i just put in 15??? There are a few cars with the Arm angle -499 I was stumped as what to put for that... I put -499... 1 of the Ariel atoms is like that??? i forget which 1 it is though....Any Ideas what value is should set to keep the default arm angle???

Yeah just like this.... <value SpindleArm="15.0" />

I haven't got one file with this value '-499'


EDIT: I presume you mean by Arm Angle 'SpindleArm'?

[GrimeyDog]

Yeah just like this.... <value SpindleArm="15.0" />

I haven't got one file with this value '-499'


EDIT: I presume you mean by Arm Angle 'SpindleArm'?

Yes thats what i mean... Take a look at the Ariel Atoms 1 of the Spindle arm Values is weird -499 or something like that cant remember exact #'s but there is a -4xx a few cars have that - value.

[Roger Prynne]

Nope I don't have -4xx in all of jacks folders/files.

Does anyone else?

EDIT:

FFBTweakers_Ariel_Atom_Mugen = <value SpindleArm="5.0" />
FFBTweakers_Ariel_Atom_V8 = <value SpindleArm="10.0" />
FFBTweakers_Ariel_Atom3 = <value SpindleArm="5.0" />

[GrimeyDog]

Not is JS Folders its the Stock/ setting Default Value for the car... JS tweeked all of the spindle arm Values in his folders.

I drive with all stock car suspension settings i only program in the FFB. take a look at the default Ariel Atom 300 supercharged set up the arm angle is set default to -1499.9... The funny thing is even with this weird Arm angle the car drives really nice!!! and i can be really fast with it.

[Roger Prynne]

Ah yes I see what you mean now.
No idea why they are that number (or cant remember) I've only been doing this for 5 years lol, but I would just stick to Jacks values.

Maybe Jack can shed some light on it though.

[poirqc]

Ah yes I see what you mean now.
No idea why they are that number (or cant remember) I've only been doing this for 5 years lol, but I would just stick to Jacks values.

Maybe Jack can shed some light on it though.

I think Jack's values where by classes. Street cars are at 500, GT4 at 1500(not sure), etc... I remember that the default car FFB isn't the same for every car. Lots of them are at 500 but some have a different value.

[Roger Prynne]

It's been a long time since I've used the default FFB, so I forget what the defaults are.
Plus the fact that I haven't changed the FFB in a long time either.

[GrimeyDog]

I have the Tweeker Files working... Now the Funny thing is in Game All the Cars work and Feel Great with My settings...Using the Tweeker files i Notice some of the Cars feel Very Different and some just dont work... Example the BMW 320TC... I have the #1 time with that car on Watkins Short using My Settings No Tweeker File used.... When I use the Tweeker Files with Same Settings entered the Car Feels Like Trash and is Barely Driveable... The Steering wheel Quiclkly Flops from Left to Right one i turn past TDC position...I adjusted the Arm Angle on the car to 2000 it felt better but Im 2 full secs Slower... The Feel is just Not there... I disable the Tweeker File for that car and all is Normal again!!! I am Sure the Info is Entered Correctly... I went over and Changed the File many times.

aIso I Notice that when using tweer Files that the FFB Effects seem lighter Smoother Ex: NoTire Scrub feeling... I Lik that Feeling as it lets Me know when im at the edge of Grip and i know when to back off when im Pushing hard....I see that there are settings/ Lines that say Disable Spring True, Disable Scrub True.... I have Not Changed any of those settings.... Is it possible that these Lines actualy Disable/activate those FFB effects in Game on a per Car Basis??? Hmmm Very interesting.

Note with My Settings all cars Drive as they should but the same settings entered into thetweeker Files Some Cars feel the same, Some Cars Have Less Feel Not in a Good or Bad way the wheel FFB effects are just Less Lively and Some Cars are just Not driveable....Could it have something to do with the Disable True/False lines??? I did Not change any of those Lines... I copied and pasted My Settings to every Car Folder.... There is a work around until i figure it out I just Add Off to the end of the file Name for the Cars that are Not working right and the Game Skips those cars and My per Track in Game entered settings take over for those cars.... Hmmmm Very interesting....I am Curiouse because as Mentioned all cars drive right with My in Game per track entered settings.

Edit:The Tweeker File is a Great Idea....i will Really have to Sit down and sort it out... Im sure its probably some simple stuff... Probably Deleting the Disable Settings so the Game defaults for those settings take over again will fix things....
Edit: Nope didn't work!!! LOL

[GrimeyDog]

Nope... No Good... Very Strange... when i program in the settings per Car Per Track all is well and Cars Need No Extra Tweeking...When i put the Car settings in the Tweeker File they Drive Different:confused: I think it has to do with the True/False settings within the Tweeker File....I went through all the Pcars Folders to try and find those settings so i can set them as they are according to default Game Values... Nope No Good cant find them they are Burrued Deep within the Game Matrix... Hmmm.... Back to entering all car FFB settings manually per track until i figure it out.

[Jack Spade]

I have the Tweeker Files working... Now the Funny thing is in Game All the Cars work and Feel Great with My settings...Using the Tweeker files i Notice some of the Cars feel Very Different and some just dont work... Example the BMW 320TC... I have the #1 time with that car on Watkins Short using My Settings No Tweeker File used.... When I use the Tweeker Files with Same Settings entered the Car Feels Like Trash and is Barely Driveable... The Steering wheel Quiclkly Flops from Left to Right one i turn past TDC position...I adjusted the Arm Angle on the car to 2000 it felt better but Im 2 full secs Slower... The Feel is just Not there... I disable the Tweeker File for that car and all is Normal again!!! I am Sure the Info is Entered Correctly... I went over and Changed the File many times.

aIso I Notice that when using tweer Files that the FFB Effects seem lighter Smoother Ex: NoTire Scrub feeling... I Lik that Feeling as it lets Me know when im at the edge of Grip and i know when to back off when im Pushing hard....I see that there are settings/ Lines that say Disable Spring True, Disable Scrub True.... I have Not Changed any of those settings.... Is it possible that these Lines actualy Disable/activate those FFB effects in Game on a per Car Basis??? Hmmm Very interesting.

Note with My Settings all cars Drive as they should but the same settings entered into thetweeker Files Some Cars feel the same, Some Cars Have Less Feel Not in a Good or Bad way the wheel FFB effects are just Less Lively and Some Cars are just Not driveable....Could it have something to do with the Disable True/False lines??? I did Not change any of those Lines... I copied and pasted My Settings to every Car Folder.... There is a work around until i figure it out I just Add Off to the end of the file Name for the Cars that are Not working right and the Game Skips those cars and My per Track in Game entered settings take over for those cars.... Hmmmm Very interesting....I am Curiouse because as Mentioned all cars drive right with My in Game per track entered settings.

Edit:The Tweeker File is a Great Idea....i will Really have to Sit down and sort it out... Im sure its probably some simple stuff... Probably Deleting the Disable Settings so the Game defaults for those settings take over again will fix things....
Edit: Nope didn't work!!! LOL

By now it should not be secret anymore that levels of forces the physics spits out are not identical on all cars, in fact you will notice it´s all over the place
if you take a closer look at it, that´s why I ended up on an individual car file since the very early days of the WMD developing period.
You can still find artifacts from this early days in tweaker file which were disabled by SMS default long ago and now you are here and wondering about. I left
it all in on purpose cause the game replaces some of it by a default, like the one I have mentioned a few days ago "cross setting menu/file", which could lead
into a possible issue sometimes.

[GrimeyDog]

By now it should not be secret anymore that levels of forces the physics spits out are not identical on all cars, in fact you will notice it´s all over the place
if you take a closer look at it, that´s why I ended up on an individual car file since the very early days of the WMD developing period.
You can still find artifacts from this early days in tweaker file which were disabled by SMS default long ago and now you are here and wondering about. I left
it all in on purpose cause the game replaces some of it by a default, like the one I have mentioned a few days ago "cross setting menu/file", which could lead
into a possible issue sometimes.

I agree that some cars put out more Forces than others...Thats Not the Prob... The Problem Ex: BMW 320TC works Very well with No extra Tweeking when i enter the settings in game Per Track.... When i use the Tweeker File the Car Requires a Major overhaul to even be Close to drivable.... this is what is purplexing to Me.

I know that the FFB system was Not right when Pcars released and Needed Fixing... but Now that the FFB system is Fixed or at least for the Most part fixed The Cars Drive Very Nice.... When i enter the the settin thgs into the Tweeker File Everything Changes... Why??? Yes the Tweeker Files over ride the system FFB settings but why is the Feel sooo different.

Deactivate the BMW 320TC in the Tweeker File and Test it with Stock Settings you will see it drives Very Nice... Then enter the Stock settings into the Tweeker file for that car you will see that its Not drivable.

Just a Test so you can see what im Talking about Im Not Questioning your Tweek work.

Something is Between the Tweeker File and Stock Game settings is Different because the stock settings should work as is within the Tweeker files but some cars they dont Ex the BMW 320TC....When i put this car in the tweeker File it Needs a Major Arm Angle adjustment 2000+ But when i just enter the FFB settings in per Track the stock Arm Angle 500 works Really well.... This is what is confusing...Why will the stock Values Not work within the Tweeker File but hey work Very well if set within the Game???

[Jack Spade]

I agree that some cars put out more Forces than others...Thats Not the Prob... The Problem Ex: BMW 320TC works Very well with No extra Tweeking when i enter the settings in game Per Track.... When i use the Tweeker File the Car Requires a Major overhaul to even be Close to drivable.... this is what is purplexing to Me.

I know that the FFB system was Not right when Pcars released and Needed Fixing... but Now that the FFB system is Fixed or at least for the Most part fixed The Cars Drive Very Nice.... When i enter the the settin thgs into the Tweeker File Everything Changes... Why??? Yes the Tweeker Files over ride the system FFB settings but why is the Feel sooo different.

Deactivate the BMW 320TC in the Tweeker File and Test it with Stock Settings you will see it drives Very Nice... Then enter the Stock settings into the Tweeker file for that car you will see that its Not drivable.

Just a Test so you can see what im Talking about Im Not Questioning your Tweek work.

Something is Between the Tweeker File and Stock Game settings is Different because the stock settings should work as is within the Tweeker files but some cars they dont Ex the BMW 320TC....When i put this car in the tweeker File it Needs a Major Arm Angle adjustment 2000+ But when i just enter the FFB settings in per Track the stock Arm Angle 500 works Really well.... This is what is confusing...Why will the stock Values Not work within the Tweeker File but hey work Very well if set within the Game???

The last time I checked the comparability of file/setup menu was when the GUI was introduced to the game years ago, back in the day I couldn´t
find any differences besides the GUI being buggy as such at the time. I don´t know what your test routine is like testing these things but to my
estimation it´s unlikely the GUI and file is a different setting for as long the corresponding values are no different, but I wouldn´t exclude the
possibility of a bug here and there either. I´m not using this part of the GUI for anything so really I don´t care about a bug.

[GrimeyDog]

The last time I checked the comparability of file/setup menu was when the GUI was introduced to the game years ago, back in the day I couldn´t
find any differences besides the GUI being buggy as such at the time. I don´t know what your test routine is like testing these things but to my
estimation it´s unlikely the GUI and file is a different setting for as long the corresponding values are no different, but I wouldn´t exclude the
possibility of a bug here and there either. I´m not using this part of the GUI for anything so really I don´t care about a bug.

Its Not a bug... Ive Tested it more than a few times... Something is different in the way the Tweeker File and GUI produce FFB... the FFB output is Different even with Exact same settings enterd... This Doesnt seem to make sense... It doesnt make sense to me either but its true... The BMW 320TC is the easyest way to Test and See that something is Different... Not wrong because your File for that car works:yes: But the GUI settings with adjusted Globals and adjusted in Car FFB work also and Car has a Really Good feel with No Car Suspension Tweeking or Arm angle adjustment...Very Strange... My Question is why do the Cars Feel Different with same settings entered into the GUI VS when they are entered into the Tweeker Files??? Settings entered into the GUI all Stock Suspensions Drive as they Should... When i enter the same settings into the Tweeker File the Cars Drive Different and some are undrivable without Suspension Tweeking/Major Arm angle adjustment..

The easiest way to understand what im talking about is Test the BMW 320TC with stock settings entered in the Tweeker file test for feeland.... Then Disable the Tweeker File and Test using the GUI for FFB...You will See that Something is Different using Manual GUI FFB entering VS Tweeker File FFB settings.... Very purplexing... it should be the same result because the FFB is the same Just enterd through different means but its Not.

Again Im Not Questioning your Tweek work...your Tweeker Files are pretty Good:yes: they are just Not to My particular FFB preference... but There is definitly Something going on here...perhaps we can investigate and Compare Notes to solve this Matter... It will be for the betterment of the whole Pcars Community.

[Jack Spade]

Its Not a bug... Ive Tested it more than a few times... Something is different in the way the Tweeker File and GUI produce FFB... the FFB output is Different even with Exact same settings enterd... This Doesnt seem to make sense... It doesnt make sense to me either but its true... The BMW 320TC is the easyest way to Test and See that something is Different... Not wrong because your File for that car works:yes: But the GUI settings with adjusted Globals and adjusted in Car FFB work also and Car has a Really Good feel with No Car Suspension Tweeking or Arm angle adjustment...Very Strange... My Question is why do the Cars Feel Different with same settings entered into the GUI VS when they are entered into the Tweeker Files??? Settings entered into the GUI all Stock Suspensions Drive as they Should... When i enter the same settings into the Tweeker File the Cars Drive Different and some are undrivable without Suspension Tweeking/Major Arm angle adjustment..

The easiest way to understand what im talking about is Test the BMW 320TC with stock settings entered in the Tweeker file test for feeland.... Then Disable the Tweeker File and Test using the GUI for FFB...You will See that Something is Different using Manual GUI FFB entering VS Tweeker File FFB settings.... Very purplexing... it should be the same result because the FFB is the same Just enterd through different means but its Not.

Again Im Not Questioning your Tweek work...your Tweeker Files are pretty Good:yes: they are just Not to My particular FFB preference... but There is definitly Something going on here...perhaps we can investigate Compare Notes to solve this Matter... It will be for the betterment of the whole Pcars Community.

Grimey, as mentioned before and from experience the GUI could still have issues here and there maybe you stumbled over one of them here. The tweaker files
are part of the very first FFB structure/system of this game and the most precise and reliable source, the GUI didn´t even exist at the time.

[poirqc]

Its Not a bug... Ive Tested it more than a few times... Something is different in the way the Tweeker File and GUI produce FFB... the FFB output is Different even with Exact same settings enterd... This Doesnt seem to make sense... It doesnt make sense to me either but its true... The BMW 320TC is the easyest way to Test and See that something is Different... Not wrong because your File for that car works:yes: But the GUI settings with adjusted Globals and adjusted in Car FFB work also and Car has a Really Good feel with No Car Suspension Tweeking or Arm angle adjustment...Very Strange... My Question is why do the Cars Feel Different with same settings entered into the GUI VS when they are entered into the Tweeker Files??? Settings entered into the GUI all Stock Suspensions Drive as they Should... When i enter the same settings into the Tweeker File the Cars Drive Different and some are undrivable without Suspension Tweeking/Major Arm angle adjustment..

The easiest way to understand what im talking about is Test the BMW 320TC with stock settings entered in the Tweeker file test for feeland.... Then Disable the Tweeker File and Test using the GUI for FFB...You will See that Something is Different using Manual GUI FFB entering VS Tweeker File FFB settings.... Very purplexing... it should be the same result because the FFB is the same Just enterd through different means but its Not.

Again Im Not Questioning your Tweek work...your Tweeker Files are pretty Good:yes: they are just Not to My particular FFB preference... but There is definitly Something going on here...perhaps we can investigate and Compare Notes to solve this Matter... It will be for the betterment of the whole Pcars Community.

I hope this doesn't sound like i'm telling you how to pilot your boat. It's merely a suggestion.

From my point of view, it would either be a bug with the UI or the files. But it doesn't matter really.

At this point, it's pretty much a given that pCars 1 won't be updated anymore. With that in mind, you're probably chasing your tail when trying to better understand and expose this bug.

pCars 2 will be a totally different software build. It will probably not be affected in the same way as pCars 1 may/is.

[GrimeyDog]

Grimey, as mentioned before and from experience the GUI could still have issues here and there maybe you stumbled over one of them here. The tweaker files
are part of the very first FFB structure/system of this game and the most precise and reliable source, the GUI didn´t even exist at the time.


I hope this doesn't sound like i'm telling you how to pilot your boat. It's merely a suggestion.

From my point of view, it would either be a bug with the UI or the files. But it doesn't matter really.

At this point, it's pretty much a given that pCars 1 won't be updated anymore. With that in mind, you're probably chasing your tail when trying to better understand and expose this bug.

pCars 2 will be a totally different software build. It will probably not be affected in the same way as pCars 1 may/is.

I considered that the original GUI had bugs but i also considered the Fact that there have been "11" UPDATE's....tthings have Changed and are definitly different...a Simple 5 min test will confirm this im sure of it....Some willl see it as chasing your tail some will see it as the Cotinued search for the truth....Bottom line is something is different between GUI FFB and Tweeker file FFB... Simple test will confirm this.... The big picture is Not Pcars 1 the Big picture is really about Not having the FFB issues with Pcars 2 that we had with Pcars 1 so the FFB paradox Must be Solved IMO.

Im pretty sure every 1 with pcars 1 is settled in their FFB settings and will Not change even if its for the Better... The best FBB is always what you are used to/Familiar with . This does Not Mean that the search should be abandoned....Something Between GUI and Tweeker File FFB is different... Bottom line Why???.... IMO we should solve whats going on because it will make pcars 2 better.

Its not a Matter of what FFB Feels better per individual user.... Its a Matter of why are Tweeker Files and GUI FFB different??? FFB is subjective to individual taste... there is no right or wrong... So the Question Remains why does GUI vs Tweeker File FFB feel sooo different with same exact settings entered???

[poirqc]

I considered that the original GUI had bugs but i also considered the Fact that there have been "11" UPDATE's....tthings have Changed and are definitly different...a Simple 5 min test will confirm this im sure of it....Some willl see it as chasing your tail some will see it as the Cotinued sear h for the truth....Bottom line is something is different between GUI FFB and Tweeker file FFB... Simple test will confirm this.... The big picture is Not Pcars 1 the Big picture is really about Not having the FFB issues with Pcars 2 that we had with Pcars 1.

Im pretty sure every 1 with pcars 1 is settled in their FFB settings and will Not change even if its for the Better... The best FBB is always what you are used to/Familiar with . This does Not Mean that the search should be abandoned....Something Between GUI and Tweeker File FFB is different... Bottom line Why???.... IMO we should solve whats going on because it will make pcars 2 better.

Its not a Matter of what FFB Feels better per individual user.... Its a Matter of why are Tweeker Files and GUI FFB different??? FFB is subjective to individual taste... there is no right or wrong... So the Question Remains why does GUI vs Tweeker File FFB feel sooo different with same exact settings entered???

I was not talking about FFB tunes personnal preferences. It was more about trying to debug complex software without debugging tools.

But at the same time, i shouldn't advise people what to do or not do just because i'm not willing to spend times on something! :D

Cheers!

Edit - About the last question. GUI or Tweaker files should feel the same. If they don't, it's a bug. A value is a value, regardless of the tool used to set it.

[Jack Spade]

I was not talking about FFB tunes personnal preferences. It was more about trying to debug complex software without debugging tools.

But at the same time, i shouldn't advise people what to do or not do just because i'm not willing to spend times on something! :D

Cheers!

Edit - About the last question. GUI or Tweaker files should feel the same. If they don't, it's a bug. A value is a value, regardless of the tool used to set it.

Exactly this!

[GrimeyDog]

"Poirqc- About the last question. GUI or Tweaker files should feel the same. If they don't, it's a bug. A value is a value, regardless of the tool used to set it"


Agree... Could be a Bug... But a Bug on which End???

1) the GUI works Bug Free when used without Tweeker Files.
2)The Tweeker Files work Bug Free when using pre set JS settings.


It really doesnt matter its Not a Game Breaker.. GUI works as it should . It would have just been Nice to use the Tweeker Files with adjusted settings...im Going back to Manual FFB entering.

[Roger Prynne]

I considered that the original GUI had bugs but i also considered the Fact that there have been "11" UPDATE's....tthings have Changed and are definitly different...a Simple 5 min test will confirm this im sure of it....Some willl see it as chasing your tail some will see it as the Cotinued search for the truth....Bottom line is something is different between GUI FFB and Tweeker file FFB... Simple test will confirm this.... The big picture is Not Pcars 1 the Big picture is really about Not having the FFB issues with Pcars 2 that we had with Pcars 1 so the FFB paradox Must be Solved IMO.

Im pretty sure every 1 with pcars 1 is settled in their FFB settings and will Not change even if its for the Better... The best FBB is always what you are used to/Familiar with . This does Not Mean that the search should be abandoned....Something Between GUI and Tweeker File FFB is different... Bottom line Why???.... IMO we should solve whats going on because it will make pcars 2 better.

Its not a Matter of what FFB Feels better per individual user.... Its a Matter of why are Tweeker Files and GUI FFB different??? FFB is subjective to individual taste... there is no right or wrong... So the Question Remains why does GUI vs Tweeker File FFB feel sooo different with same exact settings entered???

FFB for pCARS2 has been completely re-worked by the way.

[poirqc]

"Poirqc- About the last question. GUI or Tweaker files should feel the same. If they don't, it's a bug. A value is a value, regardless of the tool used to set it"


Agree... Could be a Bug... But a Bug on which End???

1) the GUI works Bug Free when used without Tweeker Files.
2)The Tweeker Files work Bug Free when using pre set JS settings.


It really doesnt matter its Not a Game Breaker.. GUI works as it should . It would have just been Nice to use the Tweeker Files with adjusted settings...im Going back to Manual FFB entering.

I just had a go at the 320TC.




236216
<value SpindleMasterScale="0.36" />

<value SpindleArm="15.0" />

<value SpindleFxScale="1.0" />
<value SpindleFxLoPass="0.2" />

<value SpindleFyScale="0.5" />
<value SpindleFyLoPass="0.0" />

<value SpindleFzScale="0.7" />
<value SpindleFzLoPass="0.1" />

<value SpindleMzScale="0.7" />
<value SpindleMzLoPass="0.0" />

<value SoPScale="0.36" />

<value SoPLateral="0.0" />
<value SoPDifferential="1.4" />
<value SoPLoPass="0.1" />



I tried it Grimey, just because it's you! ;)

I tried to set both the UI and the file the same way. After driving those values with the GUI and the file, it felt pretty much the same. I couldn't feel any difference.

Maybe you could send the file you wrote so that i try it.

But id rather race with you than debug FFB with you. We've done that enough! ;)

[Jack Spade]

"Poirqc- About the last question. GUI or Tweaker files should feel the same. If they don't, it's a bug. A value is a value, regardless of the tool used to set it"


Agree... Could be a Bug... But a Bug on which End???

1) the GUI works Bug Free when used without Tweeker Files.
2)The Tweeker Files work Bug Free when using pre set JS settings.


It really doesnt matter its Not a Game Breaker.. GUI works as it should . It would have just been Nice to use the Tweeker Files with adjusted settings...im Going back to Manual FFB entering.

Last try, first of all IMO you´re drawing a wrong conclusion. The GUI has been buggy from day one of existence most likely still is now, I know this from
years of WMD experience and many reports about them bugs, never a bug report in context with tweaker files nor did I ever notice anything as an extreme
user of it. This test routine requires, file save, GUI setup save, files activate/deactivate, close and restart of session each time settings or source of settings
were changed, any mistake here, wrong result.

Edit: I didn´t notice poirqc´s posting while i wrote this, so this posting is redundant.

[Roger Prynne]

I just tried the same experiment as poirqc and they both feel the same to me as well.
So I don't know what your problem is Grimey.
I think you must be doing something different from the rest of us.

Can you take us through the steps you use to get these results.

[poirqc]

What is must say is that whenever i do FFB tests, i do it in time trial. The tires always start at optimal temp and the weather is always the same date.

[GrimeyDog]

I just had a go at the 320TC.




236216
<value SpindleMasterScale="0.36" />

<value SpindleArm="15.0" />

<value SpindleFxScale="1.0" />
<value SpindleFxLoPass="0.2" />

<value SpindleFyScale="0.5" />
<value SpindleFyLoPass="0.0" />

<value SpindleFzScale="0.7" />
<value SpindleFzLoPass="0.1" />

<value SpindleMzScale="0.7" />
<value SpindleMzLoPass="0.0" />

<value SoPScale="0.36" />

<value SoPLateral="0.0" />
<value SoPDifferential="1.4" />
<value SoPLoPass="0.1" />



I tried it Grimey, just because it's you! ;)

I tried to set both the UI and the file the same way. After driving those values with the GUI and the file, it felt pretty much the same. I couldn't feel any difference.

Maybe you could send the file you wrote so that i try it.

But id rather race with you than debug FFB with you. We've done that enough! ;)

Arm Angle in your Test is Not Default....Remember I just use Stock settings with only FFB settings entered.

Test the GUI with BMW 320TC stock Suspension/ Arm angle.... With the GUI the stock Arm angle 500 Drives Fine I never adjust this or any Suspension tuning....i Just enter FFB settings Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz,SOP settings.

Tweeker Files use the Stock suspension and Stock arm angle 500. and test....

Remember I dont Tune any Car Suspension ...
This is where the Diff seens to be the GUI stock settings with No Arm angle adjustment work well.

Stock Settings using Tweeker Files Arm Angle Must be adjusted or car will Not Drive Right.

This is what i have been explaining Stock Settings Means No Changes to Suspension Including Arm angle....I only Enter Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz, SOP....

I think tbis is where the Diff is at... The GUI and Tweeker Files do Not see the Arm Angle/ Value Spindle Arm the same.

[GrimeyDog]

Last try, first of all IMO you´re drawing a wrong conclusion. The GUI has been buggy from day one of existence most likely still is now, I know this from
years of WMD experience and many reports about them bugs, never a bug report in context with tweaker files nor did I ever notice anything as an extreme
user of it. This test routine requires, file save, GUI setup save, files activate/deactivate, close and restart of session each time settings or source of settings
were changed, any mistake here, wrong result.

Edit: I didn´t notice poirqc´s posting while i wrote this, so this posting is redundant.

The Diff seems to be that the GUI and Tweeker Files treat the Arm Angle/Spindle Value differently.

For Me Stock Settings Means Stock... I dont change Arm Angle/ Spindle Value.... I Never Looked at Arm Angle/Spindle Value as a FFB Setting.

GUI Cars Drive well with Default Arm Angle/Spindle Value

Tweeker Files Arm Angle/Spindle Value Must Be adjusted or Car Will Not Drive right.

[poirqc]

Arm Angle in your Test is Not Default....Remember I just use Stock settings with only FFB settings entered.

Test the GUI with BMW 320TC stock Suspension/ Arm angle.... With the GUI the stock Arm angle 500 Drives Fine I never adjust this or any Suspension tuning....i Just enter FFB settings Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz,SOP settings.

Tweeker Files use the Stock suspension and Stock arm angle 500. and test....

Remember I dont Tune any Car Suspension ...
This is where the Diff seens to be the GUI stock settings with No Arm angle adjustment work well.

Stock Settings using Tweeker Files Arm Angle Must be adjusted or car will Not Drive Right.

This is what i have been explaining Stock Settings Means No Changes to Suspension Including Arm angle....I only Enter Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz, SOP....

I think tbis is where the Diff is at... The GUI and Tweeker Files do Not see the Arm Angle/ Value Spindle Arm the same.

The first test i did was to mirror what i had in the file to the GUI. It gave expected results.

I'll leave the reast as is. and change both to 500 then.

Keep in mind that in the results i posted, the only thing i changed in the garage were the FFB settings. The rest was all default. I didn't change the "regular" garage settings.


Edit:
I just tried it. Everything was the same as the details i posted above. I only changed:

<value SpindleArm="15.0" /> to <value SpindleArm="5.0" />

SpindleArm to the default value of 500 in the GUI, or 5.0 in the files felt the same. I couldn't find a difference.

The only thing i can say it that i liked 5.0 better than 15.0.

Cheers!

[GrimeyDog]

I like the Default Value better also.

Hmmm in not home but i will check to see that i entered the info correct 1 last time... I might have entered 500.0 instead of 5.0 but they should be equal to the same thing???

Can you try 500. and test what you feel?

[poirqc]

I like the Default Value better also.

Hmmm in not home but i will check to see that i entered the info correct 1 last time... I might have entered 500.0 instead of 5.0 but they should be equal to the same thing???

Can you try 500. and test what you feel?

500 in the files would equate 50 000 in the Ui! :hopelessness:

I'll try

Edit:
It's probably that. it just tried <value SpindleArm="500.0" />. The steering was quite weird. The scales have to be respected. In the GUI, ArmAngle(SpindleArm) can go up to 4500. This translate into 45.00 in the files.

I've settled with <value SpindleArm="10.0" />

[GrimeyDog]

500 in the files would equate 50 000 in the Ui! :hopelessness:

I'll try

Edit:
It's probably that. it just tried <value SpindleArm="500.0" />. The steering was quite weird. The scales have to be respected. In the GUI, ArmAngle(SpindleArm) can go up to 4500. This translate into 45.00 in the files.

LOL!!!:stupid: This Maybe the Problem:yes:
Hopefully this will get things right... The Tweeker Files are a Great Idea... I also figured out how to Change and Save to Multiple.Files at 1 time so it will be a Qyick fix to Find and correct any files that may have wrong info.

Yes Very weird steering!!! Im Getting on Now and will check to see what i entered...5.0 or 500.

Edit: Problem Solved:yes: That's My OCD nature:hopelessness:...LOL... I went with Exact same default setup #'s so i entered 500.0 instead of 5.0 this is why i was getting the crazy steering wheel responses...My fault i didn't realize i had to put 5.0 instead of 500.0.

Thanks for Helping Me get things sorted:congratulatory:

Hey When i started with this tweeker file Biz First thing i said was i need to Go To School to Learn:p LOL

[poirqc]

LOL!!!:stupid: This Maybe the Problem:yes:
Hopefully this will get things right... The Tweeker Files are a Great Idea... I also figured out how to Change and Save to Multiple.Files at 1 time so it will be a Qyick fix to Find and correct any files that may have wrong info.

Yes Very weird steering!!! Im Getting on Now and will check to see what i entered...5.0 or 500.

Edit: Problem Solved:yes: That's My OCD nature:hopelessness:...LOL... I went with Exact same default setup #'s so i entered 500.0 instead of 5.0 this is why i was getting the crazy steering wheel responses...My fault i didn't realize i had to put 5.0 instead of 500.0.

Thanks for Helping Me get things sorted:congratulatory:

Hey When i started with this tweeker file Biz First thing i said was i need to Go To School to Learn:p LOL

Don't worry, i read things wrong all the time. Yeah, the values that we see in the GUI don't translate exactly on the same scales as in the files. In the GUI, you see whole numbers. Ex: Master Scale 26. In the Files, the name is different and so is the scale: SpindleMasterScale 0.26

It's the same for smoothing. In the GUI, when you see 10, it's actually 0.1 in the files.

[bmanic]

I can highly recommend Notepad++ for any .xml file editing. It's quick and easy to use and can batch process a bunch of files easily.

[GrimeyDog]

I can highly recom...mend Notepad++ for any .xml file editing. It's quick and easy to use and can batch process a bunch of files easily.

I've been using Notepad++ to Edit the files and the Tweeker Files are Feeling Much better Now... I figured out how to do the Multiple File Editing and thats really Making things easier.... with My set up entered in the GUI i use No Fx Smoothing "0"...when using Tweeker Files i have to enter Spindle Low Pass Fx "0.1" and the FFB Feel is Very Much the same as the GUI entered settings... Could it be that when i set Spindle Low Pass to "0" in the tweeker Files that it defaults to a Higher Smoothing #???

when i set Spindle Low Pass to "0" using tweeker files the FFB feels like it lost power but at 0.1 it feels pretty Much same a GUI entered settings ...Maybe thats why the feel was off between tweeker file and GUI settings...Shrugggs I dunno but the tweeker Files are shaping up Nicely:yes:

Sooo Far all Cars Drive Nice using the Tweeker File and same settings All Cars except the Karts i had to set Fx to 0 and all is well.... That Super Kart is Fast!!! on a Short track it will Lap like a LMP1.

[GrimeyDog]

Nice...The Little attention to detail!!! Now i have Tweeker File and GUI input 1 to 1 Feel!!!

I will post it this weekend for those interested to try it.

Im going to hook up My Tx wheel this weekend and tweek settings to maximize the feel on the TM tx458/T300
The feel for the v2 is Maximized already.

[GrimeyDog]

WOW anything above 85% and the AI drive like Savages!!!

[Roger Prynne]

^ That's what I use for most races.

[GrimeyDog]

Its a Good Race but the AI Bumps Blocks and Shunts you off the Road... LOL... Im also Pretty impatient because if you let the Leader get too Far ahead they are Hard to Catch....Yeah it could be im Passing in the wrong Places too... LOL:hopelessness:

[Roger Prynne]

Hers's one of mine.... quality of vid not great, but shows what most of my races are like.


http://youtu.be/hXY_uVMFgyE

[GrimeyDog]

Hmmmm What to do what to do??? any 1 have any Pcars to do list suggestions???

[Bealdor]

Try out all the suggestions here (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?33188-What-s-your-favourite-Car-Track-combo) and discover nice car/track combos you never would've thought of yourself.
Don't forget to play with the weather conditions while you're at it...

Edit: Another suggestion thread (http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?34170-Fun-Car-Track-combos).

[inthebagbud]

Hmmmm What to do what to do??? any 1 have any Pcars to do list suggestions???


Just enjoy - get into career and look at the weather changing / different time of day races - just doing SPA in November at 4pm and the sun conditions really make you appreciate what real racing drivers have to do


If you are really bored revisit wheel FFB with CSW on xbox ..........on no exit quietly stage left :hopelessness:

[GrimeyDog]

I was Playing Forza Horizon3 the other day on XB1 and the FFB felt Really Good!!! its a really Fun Game:yes: i enjoyed it :hopelessness:

[konnos]

Sorry for yesterday grimey, for some reason I could not join the game, it was saying I was removed. I then went to bed.

[morpwr]

I was Playing Forza Horizon3 the other day on XB1 and the FFB felt Really Good!!! its a really Fun Game:yes: i enjoyed it :hopelessness:

Traitor..:D

[GrimeyDog]

Hopefully i will get to hook up the TM Tx458 this weekend and Tweek for it.... Tweeking it should be Really Easy the settings will Not be that Much Different from the V2 FFB settings.

Question is how strong do Tx458/T300 users like the Curb Feel (Fz)??? this is the sticking point the V2 can handle "Fz"(Curb Feel) 60 no problem... I like to Really Feel the Curbs and Road Bumps... Funny thing is i use 2x Bittkickers when i have them Off Less Fz 30 feels better but when they are on Fz 60 is Much More immersive!!! the Tactile feel of the Buttkickers really makes a Big diff.

Conclusion set up does really play a part in how much FFB feel you like in the wheel.

The Real Concern would be finding the right Balance for Logitec wheels or Gear Driven wheels... Hmmm I dont own a Logitec Wheel but i think that if i Hook up My Fanatec 911 gt2 wheel and tweek for it that the wheels are Similar enough that they could used the same Tweek Settings.... Hmmm... Interesting.

My findings are Once the Global System is properly Balanced Tweeking on a per wheel or individual FFB taste Basis is Really Simple... Ex: it really makes No Diff where the in Car Masters are set... Masters 100 with Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz, SOP 50 -VS- Masters 50 and Fx,Fy,Fz,Mz, SOP 100 = the same thing:yes: the FFB out put and Feel is exactly the same:yes:.... I choose to use Masters 100 because it allows for Greater Flexability +99 or -99 when tweeking FFB per wheel or Individual FFB taste.

The Main Factors to get sorted per wheel would be GM FFB, DRR, DRF because each wheel has different Dead Zone according to its Type... EX: DD (Accuforce, OSW) -VS- Belt (Fanatec CSW V2/V1, CSR Elite) -VS-Gear and Belt(Fanatec/TM) - VS- Gear (Logitec)... Each wheel has Diff DRR, DRF Because i dont iwn all wheels this Makes creating a Exact Tweeker File for each wheel Difficult unless the user Knows how to edit the Files and adjust the FFB to the wheel used.... I find using the PDF gives users the ability to Customize FFB to taste once they know how to use the FFB system.

Edit: We Need 1 tester Tweeker for the Different wheels used... Im pretty sure the overal Tweek will be the same for every wheel with adjusted Values... Ex: the V2 can Handle Fz 60 (Curb Feel) with No problem while Logitec wheels because its Gear Driven may Need Fz 30.
Even with Fz 30 the V2 Feels Very Nice!!! The Curb, Bump feel is just Reduced but still Gives very informative Road Feel info.

[GrimeyDog]

Im looking for a CSW v2/v1 user to Test and Review My Tweeker files...tweeker files should also work with the CSR Elite ...Post if interested...I will put them up.

[GrimeyDog]

RAC/TF_75 Tweeker files
These tweeker Files were optimized for the CSW V2 wheel...They will work on other wheels some adjustment may be needed.

If you are Not using a Fanatec wheel with on wheel FFB level adjustment you Must use the GM FFB to set the at the wheel FFB strength that is best for you:yes:

I recommend starting with the manufacturer Recommended FFB and + or - until the at the wheel FFB Strength is Right for you.

Test them out post and Let Me know what you think:cool:
I can Help you adjust them if needed.


Edit: You Must use the Global Settings from the PDF...PWMS, DRR,DRF Must be set According to your personal taste/Wheel used.

Note PDF has Scoop Values of 68/24.... I find on PC with the CSW v2 that No Scoops has a better Feel.. the FFB has a Much more Linear Feel.... If you are using a CSW, OSW, Accuforce or Better wheel that can Handle it i recommend Scoops OFF.

Scoop Values 68/24 have the same overall Feel as No Scoops...Adding Scoops Makes the FFB Lighter/Less Powerful while maintaining the same Level of FFB Detail and Feel...I Recommend Scoops ON for those that like a lighter lighter wheel without sacrificing FFB Detail while still maintaininig Sufficient FFB Forces.

Note: From My testing with PS4 i Recommend Scoops ON all the time No matter what wheel used.


Feel Free to Comment:yes:... I can Take it... LOL
I am Very interested to know what you think... Changes Can and will be Made to Refine the FFB even More....Thnx.

Note: With these settings Most importantly the Global settings are Balanced to Avoid In Game FFB Clipping 100%...

Note: You can also Enter the FFB from the PDF and adjust the FFB per Car using the in Car Masters and Edit the Tweeker File accordingly... Let Me know what you come up with.

Edit: Hmmmm Custom Scoop settings entered in tweeker files on a Per car basis:yes:
This really works!!! Perfect car to test it on is the Formula A... Test the car with the tweeker file for the car as is...Then enter Scoops 64/24 and test and feel the difference...The Scoops really Smooth the FFB out a bit and also makes the wheel a tad bit lighter.

[GrimeyDog]

Ok so let hear it??? any 1 have any thoughts on these Tweeker Files???

[konnos]

Sorry I didn't play for 2 days now, today I ll probably try them!

[konnos]

So. My in-game options were like you wrote in your pdf (except drr scoops) and my T300 profile FFB% at 75%. I tried to drive a few cars from each category to get a general idea of what your settings do. I drove:

Aston GT3
Caterham R500
Ford Focus RS
Ford Mustang GT
Formula A
Lotus 49
Lotus 98T
McLaren mc12
Merc E
Pagani Huayra
Renault Clio
an LMP2
RUF GT3
Toyota GT86

In general, your Fy is a little overwhelming and the wheel shakes a little too much for my liking when dead centre, but it's tight which is a nice thing and maybe lower FFB % would remedy that. In some cars, the increased Fy made a positive difference over Jack's folder 1 that I am using. It was heavier while turned and it was a little easier to correct a slide - the self aligning force was clearer, but, too strong and sudden in some cars. The cars that felt the best were the Caterham (a bit too many spikes when not turning) and the LMP2. The road cars had nice weight to the wheel, but as soon as you turned there was nothing. Pretty much constant force throughout the turn, the spikes were almost indecernible. The Mustang GT also was quite nice, that kind of wheel must suit it I guess. Now the bad part is that FA was a bit crap, no progression when turning, as soon as you turn the wheel slightly, you get a bigger than expected force. It's a not constant force like in the road cars, but it doesn't feel very natural. Both Lotus' were even worse than the FA, too much Fy to be helpful. The Huayra was decent and the Renault was ok too. Ruf wheel was tight, too much Fy again, but it was more progressive at least, not too bad I would say.

If I was to edit the files I'd remove maybe 20% Fy or more from some cars and lighten the force that gives the jolts that are mimicking road noise. I admit I should have lowered the % FFB in my wheel profile, but there are imbalances for sure. In all the cars, some things felt good, but then came the bad things. If the forces were to lighten overall, the imbalance would just shift elsewhere.

In conclusion, your settings are pretty nice. With a few fixes per-car they would be ok for something different, more playful wheel and more Fy than Jack's file. I still prefer Jack's, if you must know, but with a little higher Fy than he has. You went a little overboard with it.

[GrimeyDog]

i was thinking the Fy might be too much for TM wheels...the v2 takes the Fy 60 no problem... also the full size rim give more Leverage so the FFB does not feel as strong as it would with the TM smaller rim size... I did consider lowering Fy in some files for the Tx/T300 wheels... I did not get a chance to test the FFB File with My Tx yet so they are better optimized for the V2... Lower Fy and balanced GM FFB should pull it together.

the Fa car Is just Crap but it feels ok with the V2, The proto types are good but some tracks they feel as though they have much better grip than others...try watkins then dubai with proto types same time of day,tires etc but the Grip is not the same.

The main focus with these settings is the global settings...they will allow you to set the in car settings how ever you want without clipping....I do agree with you that Fy can be bought down a bit...thats a very what wheel used setting...not all wheels will handle the same amount of Fy

[konnos]

I have the Integral T300 which comes with the 599XX rim at 30cm diameter, instead of the standard 28cm. A suggestion to try is to lower your globals a little but offset this with higher RAC (like 90+) to let the FFB line breath a little. With almost all cars, but especially with road cars, it's being compressed to oblivion.

I should also mention that I do not have my wheel linear from FCM, I use DRR 0.14, Scoop Knee around 0.80 and Reduction 0.25

[GrimeyDog]

Stay Tuned I'm Still setting it up:cool:

[GrimeyDog]

Graphicly the Oculus Rift is Not on par with UHD TV's but the Immersion with Oculus Rift is a Total Mind Screw!!!
With the 2x ButtKicker set up im Blown away by How Real Reall Pcars Feeals while using VR!!! The Cars...Everything appears to be Real Life Size!!!

I couldnt figure out how to get the Buttkickers working at first and i was thinking to take it back before Jan 2... Holiday Shopping Rules you get to take it back for a Full Refund:p But i dunno taking it back is Gonna be Hard... LOL... Its Not something i think i would used every day but when i do use it its the Full experience!!!.... Its Not perfect but its Dam Good!

[GrimeyDog]

Using VR i see why some Curbs Feel sooo Harsh and try to Rip the wheel from your Hands!!! VR shows you that some of those Curbs are Really High!!! maybe 4 to 6 inches... You dont see that and have No sense of how high the Curbs are on a regular Screen.

Nubergring in VR is Amazing!!! Especially with Time Shift on... Kudos to SMS they really did a great Job with the Lighting Effects/Crespicular rays.... 1 Lap the Sun is right in your FOV Horizon and Blinds you the Next lap its Very Subtle and with just sun Glare off the Road also the Night time Head Light Effects are Spot on!!!. I ran More Nubergring this weekend than i Have since i Had Pcars!!!

WOW!!! Dirt Rally is Even Better than Pcars when using VR!!! The Immersion Is Insane!!! You get sooo Much perception of Depth that it Feels Real.

When i don't have the Buttkickers on it actually Makes you Dizzy as the Car Bounces around on Bumpy parts both Games....You see the screen shaking but feeling Nothing in your body really throws your senses off... The Buttkickers evens things out because you Now Feel the bumps and bouncing around that you see on Screen.

[konnos]

Awesome ;)

[BigDad]

That's pretty sweet G'Dog , i'm waiting for next Gen , but grabbed TrackIR 5 as the next best thing but listening to you temps me again ,lol.

Anyway i took your advice and installed the next to latest driver 375.70 because there is a new one again after it , and it fcuked my system up , man what a hassel .
First it worked , seemed fine so tried rFactor 2 to check fps and was getting 3-5 fps less and MSI Afterburner was reading my clock speeds in 6 digit numbers , something like 958756MHz and my memory was similar so i went back to desktop and then the fun (not) started , PC shut off , turned it back on and it loaded but then just went bright blue and stayed there , starting to worry now ! Turned it off and on , same shit . ARRRG . Off , on about 4 times with blue screens all the time then get a message on screen saying windows isnt loading properly do i want to reset or not and if i don't know which to do i should consult someone i trust ??? WTF .
Anyway i just shut it off for an hour or so and turned it on a couple of minutes ago and it started , again WTF , so i reinstalled 372.90 and all is good.

Never again .

[GrimeyDog]

WTF Dude:confused: are you sure you picked the Correct GPU Driver??? Win10 32bit or Win10 64bit.... I Dunno... only thing i Click is Custom intstal, the Click Fresh instal so it deletes Old Driver Data...Im Running a Straight Set set up No Changes or Custom GPU settings/No OC just the MSI auto Boost... CPU is usually boosted from 3.5 to 3.9

The Oculus is Bananas!!! Driving the FA cars is Just Insane!!! I Never Been a Fan of F1/ FA but they are the Best using Oculus!!!

Its a Good time to shop and test things out!!! Holiday Return policy... I can take it back up until Jan 2 for a Full Refund:encouragement: as it is i think im Keeping it!!! Its Much Better than i thought!!!

VR wont work with SLI but i dont have to do or disable anything... I just put Head set on and everything just auto disables... When i take it Off everything Goes back to Normal. No Fus No Head aches... Hopefully in the Future they will Get VR working with SLI..its.more than likely to happen as VR becomes more main Stream.

Hmmm... Im going to get the warrenty also!!! when they come out with the Next Model i will take it back for a Replacement:p...LOL.

Edit: Maybe your PC just had a Random Crash???...PC Stuff usualy dont work then just Random Stop working.
PC usualy it just wont work from the start when somethings off:confused:

[BigDad]

Just upt my GTX 1060 to 1070 lol.
Who needs money in the bank when pc gaming comes knocking .
Should have got this to begin with . o well.

[GrimeyDog]

Just upt my GTX 1060 to 1070 lol.
Who needs money in the bank when pc gaming comes knocking .
Should have got this to begin with . o well.

Exactly!!! Did you sell your 1060??? Wait what GPU did your PC crash with???

VR is the way of the Future!!! I am More than Very impressed with it!!! and its Only Going to get Better!!!

[BigDad]

Yeah, sold the 1060 for $340 (paid $420) and got the 1070 for $590, so not to much pain.
Had the driver issue with the 1060.
I just had enough of playing in settings getting 4k to play at 60 and 30 fps depending on game. I mean it did it but had to sacrifice alittle because it dipped a little to often especially at night in rfactor 2 and AMS and replays.

[Roger Prynne]

You guys just have too much money to play with :eek:

But if you've got it then why not spend I suppose :encouragement:

[Haiden]

Yeah, sold the 1060 for $340 (paid $420) and got the 1070 for $590, so not to much pain.
Had the driver issue with the 1060.
I just had enough of playing in settings getting 4k to play at 60 and 30 fps depending on game. I mean it did it but had to sacrifice alittle because it dipped a little to often especially at night in rfactor 2 and AMS and replays.

Do you like rFactor2? How is it compared to PCars, R3E, and AC. I downloaded the demo Monday, but couldn't get it to work with the wheel. Might have missed something, but the menu wasn't very clear. Gonna have another go this weekend. I heard the FFB was pretty good.

[morpwr]

Well just ordered my heusinkveld pedals. Forgot to tell the kids Christmas is canceled.lol Well at least for them.

[BigDad]

Well just ordered my heusinkveld pedals. Forgot to tell the kids Christmas is canceled.lol Well at least for them.

Ooh come on , every time i get close to the top the top keeps moving away .lol
Very nice , Merry Christmas to You .

Haiden , rFactor 2 is good , not perfect . Ive put a fair amount of time with it lately and find the FFB to be good , a bit hit and miss Mod very dependent . Same with graphics . Some look very poor but others are probably around AMS level .You wont like it ,lol . There is a big update coming in the near future moving it to DirectX 11 so that will make it my number one Sim if they stay true to the current Physics . Having mods come directly from Steam workshop with a one click install is perfect , and there are so many pretty great mods available . Getting close to 150 or so tracks .
Check out this crappy clip of a mod track / car and track combo i filmed with my phone showing how good the Ai is .
https://youtu.be/W9evLEGwWM4
I think its the best Ai on the Sim scene especially considering this is done by modders .

Now ive got this GTX 1070 i can seriously max pCars @ 4K with DS4x and FXAA on high . Along with all the other Sims i've got . Dont really drive in storms so haven't tested there yet but with 20 Ai v sync off it seems to be anywhere from 65-80 fps .

[morpwr]

Ooh come on , every time i get close to the top the top keeps moving away .lol
Very nice , Merry Christmas to You .

Haiden , rFactor 2 is good , not perfect . Ive put a fair amount of time with it lately and find the FFB to be good , a bit hit and miss Mod very dependent . Same with graphics . Some look very poor but others are probably around AMS level .You wont like it ,lol . There is a big update coming in the near future moving it to DirectX 11 so that will make it my number one Sim if they stay true to the current Physics . Having mods come directly from Steam workshop with a one click install is perfect , and there are so many pretty great mods available . Getting close to 150 or so tracks .
Check out this crappy clip of a mod track / car and track combo i filmed with my phone showing how good the Ai is .
https://youtu.be/W9evLEGwWM4
I think its the best Ai on the Sim scene especially considering this is done by modders .

Now ive got this GTX 1070 i can seriously max pCars @ 4K with DS4x and FXAA on high . Along with all the other Sims i've got . Dont really drive in storms so haven't tested there yet but with 20 Ai v sync off it seems to be anywhere from 65-80 fps .

Thanks. Ive been looking into better pedals for a while because I really think at this point they are hurting me. Not that mine are horrible but I just cant get consistently faster with the ones I have. So we will see if the pedals help. Maybe I just cant drive.:p

[GrimeyDog]

Well just ordered my heusinkveld pedals. Forgot to tell the kids Christmas is canceled.lol Well at least for them.

Nice!!! I have been eyeing those pedals for a bit... I ordered and have the Pedal plate and angle brakets for those pedals... i used it when i was working on adding rake angle to My V3 pedals.... their shipping is Quick!!! it only took 1 week to arrive so you should have your Pedals Soon!!!

When you get them Please do a Full write up and review of them... I have just been reluctant to order them because i still use the V3 pedals connected at the Wheel... It would be Really Good to know what you think about them.... Congrats on your order... Cheers.

[GrimeyDog]

Do you like rFactor2? How is it compared to PCars, R3E, and AC. I downloaded the demo Monday, but couldn't get it to work with the wheel. Might have missed something, but the menu wasn't very clear. Gonna have another go this weekend. I heard the FFB was pretty good.

Haiden i Really think you would Like PCars with VR because you are so fond of FA cars.... The FA cars are just Incredible in VR!!! I find Myself Squeezing My Shoulders in because the VR Cockpit View Really wraps around you... what a mind Screew!!! you really feel like your in a FA Car.

personally Race the FB cars in VR because the FA Dont drive as Good FFB and Physics wise.

[GrimeyDog]

You guys just have too much money to play with :eek:

But if you've got it then why not spend I suppose :encouragement:

LOL...My Budget is Shot!!! I been eating alot of Turkey Franks... LOL.... YupTurkey franks for thanksgiving too... LOL

[GrimeyDog]

Ooh come on , every time i get close to the top the top keeps moving away .lol
Very nice , Merry Christmas to You .

Haiden , rFactor 2 is good , not perfect . Ive put a fair amount of time with it lately and find the FFB to be good , a bit hit and miss Mod very dependent . Same with graphics . Some look very poor but others are probably around AMS level .You wont like it ,lol . There is a big update coming in the near future moving it to DirectX 11 so that will make it my number one Sim if they stay true to the current Physics . Having mods come directly from Steam workshop with a one click install is perfect , and there are so many pretty great mods available . Getting close to 150 or so tracks .
Check out this crappy clip of a mod track / car and track combo i filmed with my phone showing how good the Ai is .
https://youtu.be/W9evLEGwWM4
I think its the best Ai on the Sim scene especially considering this is done by modders .

Now ive got this GTX 1070 i can seriously max pCars @ 4K with DS4x and FXAA on high . Along with all the other Sims i've got . Dont really drive in storms so haven't tested there yet but with 20 Ai v sync off it seems to be anywhere from 65-80 fps .

What Top!!! Thats why i was stalling to Buy a PC... But thanks to you i got Suckered into it...LOL... I knew once i started i was going to go all the way in with it... Im Addicted to PC Racing Now!!! Yeah thanks alot... Kudos to you.... LOL.

Games that dont support VR... The Theater Mode is Insane!!! I always wondered what it would be like to Play on a Curved IMax Movie screen!!!! Oculus Rift is Just Gaming insanity!!!

[morpwr]

What Top!!! Thats why i was stalling to Buy a PC... But thanks to you i got Suckered into it...LOL... I knew once i started i was going to go all the way in with it... Im Addicted to PC Racing Now!!! Yeah thanks alot... Kudos to you.... LOL.

Games that dont support VR... The Theater Mode is Insane!!! I always wondered what it would be like to Play on a Curved IMax Movie screen!!!! Oculus Rift is Just Gaming insanity!!!

Same here. I blame bigdad.

[morpwr]

Nice!!! I have been eying those pedals for a bit... I ordered and have the Pedal plate and angle brakets for those pedals... i used it when i was working on adding rake angle to My V3 pedals.... theur shipping is Quick!!! it only took 1 week to arrive so you should have your Pedals Soon!!!

When you get them Please do a Full write up and review of them... I have just been reluctant to order them because i still use the V3 pedaks connected at the Wheel... It would be Really Good to know what you think about them.... Congrats on your order... Cheers.

Yeah ive been going back and forth for a couple weeks now trying to decide. These looked to be the best from what I can see even compared to some of the more expensive ones. Guess we will see shortly.

[BigDad]

Crappy 1070 got a problem , checker boarding and BSOD every 10 or so minutes .
Have to wait till Tuesday for a replacement :(

[rosko]

Well just ordered my heusinkveld pedals. Forgot to tell the kids Christmas is canceled.lol Well at least for them.

I'm hovering over the self destruct button with getting these, interesting to see how you get on with them. Should have some spare dosh after selling off my vinyl collection.

[morpwr]

I'm hovering over the self destruct button with getting these, interesting to see how you get on with them. Should have some spare dosh after selling off my vinyl collection.

That's how I was until I said screw it. But I spent a lot of time looking at the different high end pedals. I finally settled on these if you can call these settling.lol The other pedals either didn't look as well built or the ones with the actual hydraulics at some point will leak and there is more to go wrong. Look at some of the replacement part cost also when looking at hydraulic setups. Some of the parts where quite expensive. The hpp pedals looked good but cost more and I still thought the heusinkvelds looked like they are designed better and cost less. Hopefully we will see soon.

[morpwr]

What Top!!! Thats why i was stalling to Buy a PC... But thanks to you i got Suckered into it...LOL... I knew once i started i was going to go all the way in with it... Im Addicted to PC Racing Now!!! Yeah thanks alot... Kudos to you.... LOL.

Games that dont support VR... The Theater Mode is Insane!!! I always wondered what it would be like to Play on a Curved IMax Movie screen!!!! Oculus Rift is Just Gaming insanity!!!

Exactly. What top? I'm giving serious thought to accuforce in the near future. There is just so much more on pc. I haven't even got to try all the games yet.

[BigDad]

So do all you who jumped on a GTX 1070/1080 all get your free copy of Gears Of War 4 ? If not i suggest you get onto it because the offer runs out very SMSoon .
80GB download , wow this is my biggest game .

[GrimeyDog]

If you have a EVGA 10 series card go to the web site and fill out for your Free Power Link connecters... I got mine a week or so ago:yes: I havent put them in yet though...Im waiting for the Next gen CPU's to launch before i get into the wire Management to make things look Neat & Pretty:o... Im going to take out the I5 6600k and build a PC for My Son with it and Put the New Chip in My PC.

[BigDad]

Yeah that I7's gonna make such a difference hey ,lol
Just playing , don't want to start Haidos up again .lol

[GrimeyDog]

Yeah that I7's gonna make such a difference hey ,lol
Just playing , don't want to start Haidos up again .lol

Nope i7 wont Make a big Diff... just building a PC for My Son so i will upgrade My system to Next Gen Kabby Lake CPU.... its supposed to be a minimum 12% more powerful.... But who really knows??? its just Good reading until we get hands on.

[GrimeyDog]

I have been Racing 5pm with 60x time acceleration on California Hwy Full, 20 car grid Sion FRS mixed car race all same class... Racing this track with Oculus is just Hella fun!!! the Oculus, The buttkickers, head phones its like I'm really there!!! I'm hooked!!!... I even ran a few races using the H pattern Shifter and clucth!!! talk about Fun!!! It was bananas!!! and i had full control...WOW

I don't know if i can go back to racing on a TV again...Its going to be really hard!!! its that good... Oculus rift Much better than i ever thought it would be!!! i was buying it a a holiday give back:o yup test it, play with it, take it back and get full refund:yes: No Way is this thing going back:no:

[morpwr]

Happy Thanksgiving guys. New toys come tomorrow. My pedals should be here.:) So you know what ill be doing.

[BigDad]

You'll probably be going on holidays for two weeks , so you wont be able to touch the pedals or enjoy your holidays ( to busy hoping to get home ) . Thats what usually happens to me .lol
Enjoy them Mate and Happy Thanksgiving to you all .

[konnos]

Happy Black Friday everyone ;)

[morpwr]

Happy Black Friday everyone ;)

Yeah I wont be doing any shopping today!lol

[Haiden]

Happy Thanksgiving guys. New toys come tomorrow. My pedals should be here.:) So you know what ill be doing.

Thanks. Same! I pre-ordered Fanatec's new brake cylinder mod a couple weeks ago. Apparently it already shipped and is arriving today. :)

[GrimeyDog]

Happy Black Friday everyone ;)

No shopping for me... The Oculus rift was my black Friday investment.

[morpwr]

Well a couple things I can tell you about the heusinkveld pedals at this point. If you don't want to figure out how to mount them I wouldn't recommend them. They will unless your rig is really strong cause a lot of flex. I cant imagine using the 300lbs brake pedal.lol Even with the ricmotech loadcell mod I had little to no flex but with these it would move the wheel mount quite a bit. I wanted to mount them inverted which took most of the flex out because it moves the load point but it took some engineering to do. Floor mounting is still difficult because of the angle the are on and even with there brackets will still take some engineering on most rigs. The brackets on top of the original mount will probably make the too high and uncomfortable besides the weird angle. Now for the good part once you get them mounted. They are awesome!!! Now I know what you csw v3 guys mean. Being 16bit the throttle is as close to a real car as I could imagine. Its so easy to catch the car now. Going around the sweeper at the glen I can increase my speed by one mph if I want instead of 5 like thrustmaster pedals would do. So easy to be very precise with the throttle. The brake is the same it feels very realistic with a good amount of travel. If you even touch the brake pedal it registers on the screen. You cant rest your foot on it anymore. Will these immediately make you faster no. At this point I'm a little slower because I'm relearning what the pedals are telling me. I'm sure after a little time absolutely they will because they are just that much better then what ive been using. Just about any adjustment you could want to make has been thought of. For those of you that use the clutch yes its good and feels pretty realistic. Id say its more in line with a late model car feel then a race car but most race cars use hydraulic clutches now too so even those aren't real heavy anymore. Its got a nice feel and its gets easier as you get to max travel like the clutch is fully disengaged. Setting up the endpoints is pretty straight forward but make sure all the jam nuts are tight (mine weren't and they are that sensitive) and id probably work the pedal a few times to make sure they return to the same spot everytime. So are they worth the money? Id say absolutely. The quality and thought that went into these is amazing. On a side note about the mounting if you have a 80/20 rig I guess its a lot easier because thats what most of these pedals go into.

[rosko]

Well a couple things I can tell you about the heusinkveld pedals at this point. If you don't want to figure out how to mount them I wouldn't recommend them. They will unless your rig is really strong cause a lot of flex. I cant imagine using the 300lbs brake pedal.lol Even with the ricmotech loadcell mod I had little to no flex but with these it would move the wheel mount quite a bit. I wanted to mount them inverted which took most of the flex out because it moves the load point but it took some engineering to do. Floor mounting is still difficult because of the angle the are on and even with there brackets will still take some engineering on most rigs. The brackets on top of the original mount will probably make the too high and uncomfortable besides the weird angle. Now for the good part once you get them mounted. They are awesome!!! Now I know what you csw v3 guys mean. Being 16bit the throttle is as close to a real car as I could imagine. Its so easy to catch the car now. Going around the sweeper at the glen I can increase my speed by one mph if I want instead of 5 like thrustmaster pedals would do. So easy to be very precise with the throttle. The brake is the same it feels very realistic with a good amount of travel. If you even touch the brake pedal it registers on the screen. You cant rest your foot on it anymore. Will these immediately make you faster no. At this point I'm a little slower because I'm relearning what the pedals are telling me. I'm sure after a little time absolutely they will because they are just that much better then what ive been using. Just about any adjustment you could want to make has been thought of. For those of you that use the clutch yes its good and feels pretty realistic. Id say its more in line with a late model car feel then a race car but most race cars use hydraulic clutches now too so even those aren't real heavy anymore. Its got a nice feel and its gets easier as you get to max travel like the clutch is fully disengaged. Setting up the endpoints is pretty straight forward but make sure all the jam nuts are tight (mine weren't and they are that sensitive) and id probably work the pedal a few times to make sure they return to the same spot everytime. So are they worth the money? Id say absolutely. The quality and thought that went into these is amazing. On a side note about the mounting if you have a 80/20 rig I guess its a lot easier because thats what most of these pedals go into.

Yeah I'm mostly worried about my current rig with these pedal. Did you get the mounting plate as well? Maybe i will have to invest in a more solid rig than my NLR but i really want something i can pack away. Glad you are enjoying them though they sound great.

[morpwr]

Yeah I'm mostly worried about my current rig with these pedal. Did you get the mounting plate as well? Maybe i will have to invest in a more solid rig than my NLR but i really want something i can pack away. Glad you are enjoying them though they sound great.

Yes I got the plate and both of their brackets. If you have a playseat rig id say its a no go unless you do some serious reinforcing. I had one before my gt omega rig and they have quite a bit of flex in the pedal mount. Mounting them inverted which I like better anyways took care of the flex on the gt omega. That is part of the problem with these. They are so solid especially when mounted to the plate any flex shows up in the rig. If mounting these to mdf for example they recommend doubling it up to make it solid enough. Id say for what they cost they are a bargain compared to some of the other high end pedals that cost a lot more.

[rosko]

Yes I got the plate and both of their brackets. If you have a playseat rig id say its a no go unless you do some serious reinforcing. I had one before my gt omega rig and they have quite a bit of flex in the pedal mount. Mounting them inverted which I like better anyways took care of the flex on the gt omega. That is part of the problem with these. They are so solid especially when mounted to the plate any flex shows up in the rig. If mounting these to mdf for example they recommend doubling it up to make it solid enough. Id say for what they cost they are a bargain compared to some of the other high end pedals that cost a lot more.

ok yeah doesn't sound like current rig would be good enough, tbh the build quality is really poor just the design itself is really convenient. Would you see any problem with this sort of rig? http://www.prosimu-shop.com/en/simulator-t1000/52-t1000.html
I like the idea of being able to move the pedals, gear & wheel.

[Haiden]

Yes I got the plate and both of their brackets. If you have a playseat rig id say its a no go unless you do some serious reinforcing. I had one before my gt omega rig and they have quite a bit of flex in the pedal mount. Mounting them inverted which I like better anyways took care of the flex on the gt omega. That is part of the problem with these. They are so solid especially when mounted to the plate any flex shows up in the rig. If mounting these to mdf for example they recommend doubling it up to make it solid enough. Id say for what they cost they are a bargain compared to some of the other high end pedals that cost a lot more.

I like the GT Art, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to replace it somewhere down the line. The little bit of flex in the pedal deck is tolerable, because I don't even notice it when I'm driving. But I know it's there...LOL. The real issue for me, though, is the wheel deck. I wish there was a way to extended horizontally without increasing the vertical height.

That's awesome on the pedals. Glad you like them. They will make a huge difference in laps times. I doubt it will take you that long to get up to speed with them.


ok yeah doesn't sound like current rig would be good enough, tbh the build quality is really poor just the design itself is really convenient. Would you see any problem with this sort of rig? http://www.prosimu-shop.com/en/simulator-t1000/52-t1000.html
I like the idea of being able to move the pedals, gear & wheel.

Overall, the GT Art frame is sturdier than that, but to be honest, that pedal deck looks like it might actually be more solid than the Art's. The supports are in the right place. The GT Art has the upper support about a quarter of the way from the actually top of the plate. So if your pedals are mounted in a way that the top of them extends over that upper support beneath the plate, the pressure creates enough leverage to flex the plate about a CM. I don't see that happening with your rig, unless those side supports attached to the top of the deck are weak.

[morpwr]

I like the GT Art, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to replace it somewhere down the line. The little bit of flex in the pedal deck is tolerable, because I don't even notice it when I'm driving. But I know it's there...LOL. The real issue for me, though, is the wheel deck. I wish there was a way to extended horizontally without increasing the vertical height.

That's awesome on the pedals. Glad you like them. They will make a huge difference in laps times. I doubt it will take you that long to get up to speed with them.



Overall, the GT Art frame is sturdier than that, but to be honest, that pedal deck looks like it might actually be more solid than the Art's. The supports are in the right place. The GT Art has the upper support about a quarter of the way from the actually top of the plate. So if your pedals are mounted in a way that the top of them extends over that upper support beneath the plate, the pressure creates enough leverage to flex the plate about a CM. I don't see that happening with your rig, unless those side supports attached to the top of the deck are weak.

I totally agree with your statement about the wheel deck. Being tall that was one of the reasons I had to mount the seat in the top holes. Otherwise you couldn't get the wheel deck in a reasonable position with the distance I needed for the pedals. Ill probably look into a 80/20 setup in the future and probably should have just done that in the first place. But I didn't know I was going to turn this into a serious hobby when pcars came out.

[Haiden]

I totally agree with your statement about the wheel deck. Being tall that was one of the reasons I had to mount the seat in the top holes. Otherwise you couldn't get the wheel deck in a reasonable position with the distance I needed for the pedals. Ill probably look into a 80/20 setup in the future and probably should have just done that in the first place. But I didn't know I was going to turn this into a serious hobby when pcars came out.

Yeah... same. If I had known...LOL. It's not a huge issue, so it's toward the bottom of my list. I'll look into a little more next year, after I get some of the other upgrades out of the way. I'm going to get a separate mounting system for my triple screen setup. Once the other things are in place, I'll worry about the rig, I'm consider the 80/20 setup, too. Also this one, which has a really nice wheel deck. The pedal deck, seems to have a similar support config as the Art, but the plate is metal and the bottom is actually bolted in place, instead of the tie-down method.

http://simetik-cockpits.myshopify.com/products/cockpit-k2

I like the 80/20, because it basically the config options are basically limitless. But most 80/20 setups I've seen all have pretty large footprints.

[morpwr]

Yeah... same. If I had known...LOL. It's not a huge issue, so it's toward the bottom of my list. I'll look into a little more next year, after I get some of the other upgrades out of the way. I'm going to get a separate mounting system for my triple screen setup. Once the other things are in place, I'll worry about the rig, I'm consider the 80/20 setup, too. Also this one, which has a really nice wheel deck. The pedal deck, seems to have a similar support config as the Art, but the plate is metal and the bottom is actually bolted in place, instead of the tie-down method.

http://simetik-cockpits.myshopify.com/products/cockpit-k2

I like the 80/20, because it basically the config options are basically limitless. But most 80/20 setups I've seen all have pretty large footprints.

I thought so too about the 80/20 footprint. But if you really look at some of them they really aren't any bigger then what we have now. I think it just looks big. They really aren't much wider then the seat like what we have. But even the one you have the link to is really limited on pedals if you ever decide to go high end. The 80/20 is limitless and easy to add stuff too. Plus you can order pretty much anything you can think of for them instead of having to make it which is a big plus. But I'm in the same spot as you now there are other things like the wheel id like to get and ill decide on monitors when I know for sure what rig I'm going to use. Who knew it would turn into this and bigdad said there was a ceiling.lol

[Haiden]

I thought so too about the 80/20 footprint. But if you really look at some of them they really aren't any bigger then what we have now. I think it just looks big. They really aren't much wider then the seat like what we have. But even the one you have the link to is really limited on pedals if you ever decide to go high end. The 80/20 is limitless and easy to add stuff too. Plus you can order pretty much anything you can think of for them instead of having to make it which is a big plus. But I'm in the same spot as you now there are other things like the wheel id like to get and ill decide on monitors when I know for sure what rig I'm going to use. Who knew it would turn into this and bigdad said there was a ceiling.lol

Interesting. I'll have to do more research--setup images and dimensions--when the time comes.

Yeah... I'm pretty happy with my current pedals and wheel, so I'm going to focus on the little things for now. I got tired of waiting on the Buttkickers to be back in stock and found a transducer option that I actually like better. I'll have to make the mount, but overall, it's better hardware for roughly the same cost and easier to scale up. I've got a button box picked out, too. Now I just need to do some monitor research. :)

[morpwr]

Well after spending some more time with the pedals I'm starting to see how good they really are. I'm still getting them positioned right and playing with adjustments some but after last night id definitely recommend them. I purposely picked a car I haven't used a lot (the corvette) and ran some races. There where a few times I had it right sideways and saved it easily without even losing a spot. With the thrustmaster pedals those would have been race ending mistakes. Even though in real life I was pretty sure I could have saved it in the game I never could before and just assumed it was the game. High end pedals are really starting to show there value. The brake is a whole different level then the thrustmaster even with the ricmotech loadcell. I heard stuff ive never heard before in the game from the tires. I can see where trailbraking will be a lot easier with these as its much easier to modulate the brakes. That's what I meant about hearing things to you can hear the tires approaching losing grip as you get on the brake harder. After a couple hours last night I don't think it will take me very long to adjust to these because it feels more natural and a lot closer to a real car.:)

[Haiden]

Well after spending some more time with the pedals I'm starting to see how good they really are. I'm still getting them positioned right and playing with adjustments some but after last night id definitely recommend them. I purposely picked a car I haven't used a lot (the corvette) and ran some races. There where a few times I had it right sideways and saved it easily without even losing a spot. With the thrustmaster pedals those would have been race ending mistakes. Even though in real life I was pretty sure I could have saved it in the game I never could before and just assumed it was the game. High end pedals are really starting to show there value. The brake is a whole different level then the thrustmaster even with the ricmotech loadcell. I heard stuff ive never heard before in the game from the tires. I can see where trailbraking will be a lot easier with these as its much easier to modulate the brakes. That's what I meant about hearing things to you can hear the tires approaching losing grip as you get on the brake harder. After a couple hours last night I don't think it will take me very long to adjust to these because it feels more natural and a lot closer to a real car.:)

I figured it wouldn't take long. I had T3PA Pro pedals before the V3. They're fine for casual use, but they don't have anywhere near the precision you want if you consider sim racing a serious hobby. That's why, if it comes down to one or the other (pedals vs wheel), I'd recommend, getting decent pedals first. Assuming someone already has an FFB capable wheel, good pedals will improve their driving more than a wheel upgrade. :) The reason I never got the ricmotech loadcell mod for the T3PAs is because it lacked adjustment options. I think loadcells are too sensitive and precise to not be fully adjustable.

It doesn't take long to get used to the extra precision. In fact, I think you spend more time finding your preferred pedal feel than getting used to the improved resolution. All I know is, with the T3PAs, I could never ride bumpers like I do with the V3s. It's fun online, too, because you can really pressure people into making mistakes. They're so used to idiots being on the track, when you ride them close, they start freaking out, watching you in the mirrors instead of focusing on the approaching apex...LOL

Just make sure you finalize your seat and pedal deck position before tweaking the brake feel, because it changes depending on the seat and pedal position. If you're doing both at the same time, it's probably going to take longer. Whenever I've changed my seating position or pedal deck, I've always had to readjust the brake feel--resistance and dampening).

[konnos]

You guys are making me mad jealous!

[morpwr]

I figured it wouldn't take long. I had T3PA Pro pedals before the V3. They're fine for casual use, but they don't have anywhere near the precision you want if you consider sim racing a serious hobby. That's why, if it comes down to one or the other (pedals vs wheel), I'd recommend, getting decent pedals first. Assuming someone already has an FFB capable wheel, good pedals will improve their driving more than a wheel upgrade. :) The reason I never got the ricmotech loadcell mod for the T3PAs is because it lacked adjustment options. I think loadcells are too sensitive and precise to not be fully adjustable.

It doesn't take long to get used to the extra precision. In fact, I think you spend more time finding your preferred pedal feel than getting used to the improved resolution. All I know is, with the T3PAs, I could never ride bumpers like I do with the V3s. It's fun online, too, because you can really pressure people into making mistakes. They're so used to idiots being on the track, when you ride them close, they start freaking out, watching you in the mirrors instead of focusing on the approaching apex...LOL

Just make sure you finalize your seat and pedal deck position before tweaking the brake feel, because it changes depending on the seat and pedal position. If you're doing both at the same time, it's probably going to take longer. Whenever I've changed my seating position or pedal deck, I've always had to readjust the brake feel--resistance and dampening).

Even with the loadcell on the pros youre still very limited. Yes youre using muscle memory but the area you have to work in is very small without having actual travel. When I read one of the reviews about the heusinkveld pedals and the guy mentioned hearing things in iracing he had never heard before I thought yeah ok but hes right. Youre right about riding bumpers too. I had the best race I ever had in pcars last night. I didn't win but I fought hard like I never could do before with the 2 lead cars for 5 laps and I'm nowhere near used to the pedals yet. It was awesome swapping places back and forth.I only ended up 3rd because I was still making mistakes with the new pedals. You just don't have the same confidence with the t3pa pros even with the loadcell. Don't overlook the throttle either. I always used to have the cars jump sideways off the first turn at the glen and its much easier now to control with more resolution. I don't think the throttle could feel any closer to a real car then it does its just so linear and instant.

[morpwr]

You guys are making me mad jealous!

Its Christmas get yourself something.;)

[GrimeyDog]

Well after spending some more time with the pedals I'm starting to see how good they really are. I'm still getting them positioned right and playing with adjustments some but after last night id definitely recommend them. I purposely picked a car I haven't used a lot (the corvette) and ran some races. There where a few times I had it right sideways and saved it easily without even losing a spot. With the thrustmaster pedals those would have been race ending mistakes. Even though in real life I was pretty sure I could have saved it in the game I never could before and just assumed it was the game. High end pedals are really starting to show there value. The brake is a whole different level then the thrustmaster even with the ricmotech loadcell. I heard stuff ive never heard before in the game from the tires. I can see where trailbraking will be a lot easier with these as its much easier to modulate the brakes. That's what I meant about hearing things to you can hear the tires approaching losing grip as you get on the brake harder. After a couple hours last night I don't think it will take me very long to adjust to these because it feels more natural and a lot closer to a real car.:)

Nice!!! Good to have your review of the Pedals.... I think they will be on My 2017 buy list.

Im Making the same Progress with Racing in VR with the Oculus... My Lap times are More Consistent and even Faster on Some Tracks!!! VR is Much Better than i thought it would be.... VR wont work with SLI...For now Its still New Tec.... But its no Fuss i dont do anything but put the Hed set on and it disables what ever it Needs to and 30 secs later PC is Alive and in VR.... I have No prob Keeping 90FPS Once i got the settings right... No judder or Tearing!!! Plays in 1080p with all the important settings at ultra!!! Stuff like Grass is on Low but still Looks 3D!!!

Look at what Big Dad Started!!! He has Generated almost 10k in PC equipment and sales between Me, You, Him self and Haiden!!! If he were getting a Commission from the sales he would be get a Nice Lump of Cash!!! LOL

[morpwr]

Nice!!! Good to have your review of the Pedals.... I think they will be on My 2017 buy list.

Im Making the same Progress with Racing in VR with the Oculus... My Lap times are More Consistent and even Faster on Some Tracks!!! VR is Much Better than i tjought it would be.... VR won work with SLI...For now.... But its no Fuss i dont do anything but put the Hed set on and it disables what ever it Needs to and 30 secs later PC is Alive and in VR.... I have No prob Keeping 90FPS Once i got the settings right... No judder or Tearing!!! Pkays in 1080p with all the important settings at ultra!!! Stuff like Grass is on Low but still Looks 3D!!!

Look at what Big Dad Started!!! He has Generated almost 10k in PC equipment and sales between Me, You, Him self and Haiden!!! If he were getting a Commission from the sales he would be get a Nice Lump of Cash!!! LOL

10K in sales that sony got nothing from. lol

[Haiden]

Even with the loadcell on the pros youre still very limited. Yes youre using muscle memory but the area you have to work in is very small without having actual travel. When I read one of the reviews about the heusinkveld pedals and the guy mentioned hearing things in iracing he had never heard before I thought yeah ok but hes right. Youre right about riding bumpers too. I had the best race I ever had in pcars last night. I didn't win but I fought hard like I never could do before with the 2 lead cars for 5 laps and I'm nowhere near used to the pedals yet. It was awesome swapping places back and forth.I only ended up 3rd because I was still making mistakes with the new pedals. You just don't have the same confidence with the t3pa pros even with the loadcell. Don't overlook the throttle either. I always used to have the cars jump sideways off the first turn at the glen and its much easier now to control with more resolution. I don't think the throttle could feel any closer to a real car then it does its just so linear and instant.

You're right. I forgot about the throttle. That was huge. I didn't realize how poor my corner exits were until I got a pedal with an adequate amount of resistance. The T3PAs are just too loose. You have no fine control.

[konnos]

...It was awesome swapping places back and forth...

Well... I'm glad you are having fun!

[morpwr]

Well... I'm glad you are having fun!

I always liked pcars but its a different experience with better gear. Consumer grade stuff is good and has come along way since my g27 but the higher end stuff shows what the games are really capable of. I'm finding out a lot of the things people bitch about aren't the games fault but the limitations of our gear. Just a couple hours with pedals that aren't positioned exactly right yet showed how savable spins really are in pcars. I actually think they got it pretty damn close now that I have better pedals. I cant wait to see what the accuforce wheel feels like.