Lets talk FFB PC, PS4, XBox1

[Haiden]

I think your mad for going straight to pcars?
Using that GTX1080 with that i7 any game you want should look dam fine.

Not really. If I started with a new game, how would I judge the difference between console and PC?

I downloaded AC. It's good, and definitely blows the console version of PCars away. But I think you need to get PCars on PC. Don't let your console experience jade you. The PC version is nothing like the console version. Better graphics and WAY better FFB. IMO, there's very little difference in FFB (overall) between AC and PCars. They're just using different models. PCars has no canned effects, which gives it a very visceral feel. AC has very polished and refined canned effects. IMO, neither is better. They're just different, which is good. If they were the same, then owning both would have less value.

But I'm telling you. PCars on PC is so different. I haven't experienced any of the annoying little bugs I had on console. They might be there, but they aren't as prevalent, not do they occur as much. And if they do, they'll be far less irritating, because it only takes like 5 seconds for the game to load...LOL

I'm running both games at ultra, everything cranked to the max. It's smooth as butter. I haven't seen the frame rate on PCars, because they don't have a monitor (or at least I haven't see one), but with ultra settings on AC, I ran the benchmark and let it run for a while. I'm getting an average 110 fps, with peaks in the 120s on straights, and 130s with less cars on the track. F'ing butter.

What's your Steam ID?

[morpwr]

Changing RAB from .08 to .10 made a world of difference for me. The v3.0 settings are f'ing brilliant! Thanks Jack!

Yeah I just jumped in last night and made a big change to rab to see and immediately went yep this is the problem. It seems rab values are very important to get the right feel at this point. Even one number makes a noticeable change in feel. Funny we are both at the same setting now. Other then scoop values at this point the settings seem to be pretty universal other then a few wheel specific things like wps,ddr,etc which would make it much easier for someone just coming in.

[Jack Spade]

Changing RAB from .08 to .10 made a world of difference for me. The v3.0 settings are f'ing brilliant! Thanks Jack!

So you are on PC now with that? If so you perhaps can shed a light upon the old FFB master 100% issue also any other PS4/PC FFB differences.

[Jack Spade]

Jack Spade are you Really still using FW 116 in your V2 if so i suggest you update the V2 FW has Really come a long way and is Much Better

No, I´m on Fanatec´s latest update just have not updated my signature.

Edit: done now

[GrimeyDog]

So you are on PC now with that? If so you perhaps can shed a light upon the old FFB master 100% issue also any other PS4/PC FFB differences.

I thought that Old Master 100% issue had been figured out

PC Has a FFB Limiter in the control panel so it Totally Negates/ Overides the Game Master FFB 100%...

GM FFB 100 ---> Device Control Panel FFB 75 = Output to the wheel 75

Console is Ruled By the GM FFB only...100% is just Too Strong... This is also Very Tweek dependent... Low TF, RAG, RAC can be adjusted accordingly to make GM FFB 100 useable... Except in the Case your using a Fanatec wheel... With Fanatec wheel the GM FFB can be set to 100 because the on Wheel FFB setting acts like the PC Device Control Panel and over rides the GM FFB

[Jack Spade]

I thought that Old Master 100% issue had been figured out

PC Has a FFB Limiter in the control panel so it Totally Negates/ Overides the Game Master FFB 100%...

GM FFB 100 ---> Device Control Panel FFB 75 = Output to the wheel 75

Console is Ruled By the GM FFB only...100% is just Too Strong... This is also Very Tweek dependent... Low TF, RAG, RAC can be adjusted accordingly to make GM FFB 100 useable... Except in the Case your using a Fanatec wheel... With Fanatec wheel the GM FFB can be set to 100 because the on Wheel FFB setting acts like the PC Device Control Panel and over rides the GM FFB

What makes you think that? There is no limiter and nothing overrides that master on PC, it´s two of the same but independent....FFB master in game and FF on the wheel (Fanatec)
None of it really needed as just the dynamic range gets reduced on the wheel and the deadzone increased if below 100%. TF, SG and Scales are more than enough to adjust
appropriate levels without the loss of anything. The question is, is it really any different on consoles? ....almost forgot, FOR on CSW´s an other global thing to mess with.

[BigDad]

Not really. If I started with a new game, how would I judge the difference between console and PC?

I downloaded AC. It's good, and definitely blows the console version of PCars away. But I think you need to get PCars on PC. Don't let your console experience jade you. The PC version is nothing like the console version. Better graphics and WAY better FFB. IMO, there's very little difference in FFB (overall) between AC and PCars. They're just using different models. PCars has no canned effects, which gives it a very visceral feel. AC has very polished and refined canned effects. IMO, neither is better. They're just different, which is good. If they were the same, then owning both would have less value.

But I'm telling you. PCars on PC is so different. I haven't experienced any of the annoying little bugs I had on console. They might be there, but they aren't as prevalent, not do they occur as much. And if they do, they'll be far less irritating, because it only takes like 5 seconds for the game to load...LOL

I'm running both games at ultra, everything cranked to the max. It's smooth as butter. I haven't seen the frame rate on PCars, because they don't have a monitor (or at least I haven't see one), but with ultra settings on AC, I ran the benchmark and let it run for a while. I'm getting an average 110 fps, with peaks in the 120s on straights, and 130s with less cars on the track. F'ing butter.

What's your Steam ID?

Steam ID : 2ndlastjedi
Are you running both games in 4K ? if so how do they compare and what fps are you getting for pCars ? with ultra everything because my GTX1060 very nearly
maxes out 4K everything @60fps which is all my tv can handle . 3840x2160 60p and using fast sync to totally remove any screen tearing .
i added some mods last night , some of them are pretty bad even after reading reviews from other users . Paul Richard is probably the stand out track so far . Longford is a definite no go , it puts huge loads on your cpu and i was getting a 99%occupancy warning appearing in game .uninstalled asap .

[Haiden]

So you are on PC now with that? If so you perhaps can shed a light upon the old FFB master 100% issue also any other PS4/PC FFB differences.

Yep. I just got everything set up last night. Love it!

If you mean the negativity about running FF=100, I think it's totally misplaced. I've been running FF=100 for the longest on my CSW-v2 with TF=75, RAG=1.50, and RAC=90. I've had zero problems, and my wheel doesn't run hot. Before my CSW, I was running FF/TF at 100/65 on my T300 and TX with no trouble--both wheels are still in perfect working order. IMO, I get a higher degree of fidelity with FF=100, than I do when I lower FF and run higher TF values. But, to each his own.

I think the negative backlash against FF=100 was simply due to a lot of people, early on--especially console users--running settings that were way too high. They had FF, TF, and their Master Scales cranked and burned out their hardware. The scale descriptions in the game make it seem like TF is more important than FF for fidelity, but it's not. It's a symbiotic relationship. I or my terminology may be wrong, but, IMO, TF determines how much of the various forces you feel (the calculation) and FF determines how strongly you feel them. So basically, lowering FF can cause some of the lower end forces that TF is generating/calculating to fall into an undetectable range that you can't sense/feel. They're still there. And they still show in telemetry, but they're too weak to actually feel. Again, a simple misunderstanding of the telemetry window. Just because the line/signal is fluctuating, doesn't mean you can actually feel the output. Just like an audio signal. You can tune the crap out of your EQ, but the lower you turn the volume down, the less detail you're ears are able to hear. The detail is still there, a well polished/tuned signal, you just can't hear enough of it to fully appreciate what's going on.

As far as the differences between PS4 and PC. The graphics are better, but I wouldn't say shockingly so. I'm running a GTX1080 and have everything max'd out. On some tracks, like the Nords, the differences are more noticeable than others, especially if you're driving in the late afternoon. The shadows and reflections on PC do blow console away, though. Same goes for rain effects. The drops behave a lot differently on PC and look way more natural. The loads times are way faster on PC, and the GUI itself is so much easier to navigate. On console, it was a pain in the butt to scroll through the track and car lists, but the same list on PC is breeze, because of the mouse scroll. I think SMS designed the GUI for PC, not realizing some elements might be a little cumbersome to navigate with analog sticks.

I think the FFB is where the PC version really shines, though. It's so much smoother and nuanced than console, giving me a level of car control that basically makes it feel like a different game. I can push the car a lot harder now. And I've caught a few spins that I know I would have never recovered from on console. And I'm not talk about little slips. I mean, losing it, sliding off track out of control, and being able to regain control and direction before smacking the wall kind of recoveries. Also, I might be crazy, or maybe it's the fact that I have better control of the car, but I think the AI is better. It's the same AI behavior, but they seem to be thinking and reacting faster, which makes them seem more intuitive. On console, if you aren't alongside the AI before you reach the braking zone, you get no respect. They'll turn into you, like you weren't even there. But on PC, I've noticed the AI leaving me room even when I'm only barely alongside his rear bumper. Again, I'm only about 4 hours into my PC experience, but the wheel to wheel action I was getting was impressive, compared to what I was used to on console. My guess is, it's the same behavioral algorithms, but, like load times, PC CPUs are able to process them faster. It's basically the same principle that allows PCs to have more cars on the grid. If true, then it would mean, the slower your PC, the less intuitive the AI will seem.

PC also seems more stable. Like I said, I'm only about 4-5 hours into the experience. But in 4-5 hours on console, was usually more than enough time to run into something.

All in all. The experience on PS4 was solid and a lot of fun and definitley the best I've ever had on console. Despite the intermittent glitches, I have yet to find anything else on console that comes close.

[Haiden]

Steam ID : 2ndlastjedi
Are you running both games in 4K ? if so how do they compare and what fps are you getting for pCars ? with ultra everything because my GTX1060 very nearly
maxes out 4K everything @60fps which is all my tv can handle . 3840x2160 60p and using fast sync to totally remove any screen tearing .
i added some mods last night , some of them are pretty bad even after reading reviews from other users . Paul Richard is probably the stand out track so far . Longford is a definite no go , it puts huge loads on your cpu and i was getting a 99%occupancy warning appearing in game .uninstalled asap .

No. I haven't upgraded the screen yet, so it's just HD. That's the next thing on the list. I did, however, play with the GPU settings and tried the one that increases the number of frames rendered and then downsizes it for the screen's native resolution. I doubled the frames, and it was still running smoothly. If you haven't, make sure you adjust your GPU to run in "Single Screen" performance mode. Mine was running in Multi-screen mode by default.

I checked the benchmarks for the 1080, though, before I bought it. It's definitely capable of running 90+ fps at 4K. In fact, the GTX1070 would have been cheaper, and totally capable of running PCars, but, on average, it's benchamarks were 20-30 fps less than the 1080 at 4K Ultra settings. For the most part, it stayed about 60 fps, but the 1070 definitely fell below it a few times. I don't think I saw it drop below 54 fps, though. Still, 60 is the minimum for racing. And 90+ runs like butter.

I'll send you a friend request later tonight.

Oh, also... I was wrong about AC's FOV. I think it's fine. It looks like they just designed it with the assumption that users would have their screens mounted closer. If my screen was actually mounted to my rig, the FOV would be totally fine.

Edit: One thing though... What the hell was Kunos thinking not adding a brake pressure setting in the car setup? That's a little f'ing annoying. The CSW-v2 has it own brake pressure setting, but I'm not sure I'll be able to use that once I plug the pedals in directly.

[GrimeyDog]

What makes you think that? There is no limiter and nothing overrides that master on PC, it´s two of the same but independent....FFB master in game and FF on the wheel (Fanatec)
None of it really needed as just the dynamic range gets reduced on the wheel and the deadzone increased if below 100%. TF, SG and Scales are more than enough to adjust
appropriate levels without the loss of anything. The question is, is it really any different on consoles? ....almost forgot, FOR on CSW´s an other global thing to mess with.

On PC its a redundant setting GM FFB is Not Needed for Console GM FFB is the equvilant of the PC Device control pannel...There is Nothing to debate on this Matter... I thought that this was Clearly understood a while ago.

Also Reducing TF, RAC there is No Dynamic Range Loss but IMO from my testing on Console Reducing Steering Gain you Lose Dynamic Range

Yes i am aware of the FOR setting on CSW wheels... That setting should only be used when the game has Very weak/Low out put of FFB Forces... This is Clearly Not the case with Pcars... If your Pcars settings are Balanced correctly you will Never ever have to use this setting which is also the case with Most Current FFB Games...Maybe the FOR setting may Need to be used with older games... I Have and play a few older games Rfactor, Race 07 etc and even that does Not require the FOR to be + or -.

BTW FOR as per Fanatec setting is used to + or - FFB effects only with out increasing the Total Strength of the Wheel... EX it should Not add extra wheel weight but it will / Should bring out More Bump Curb Road feel.

Edit: Fanatec on Wheel FFB over rides GM FFB on PS4 only... it acts same as the PC Device control pannel... Thats the best i can explain it.

On PC the GM FFB is Negated by the Device Control pannel setting... GM FFB 100 --->Device Control Pannel 75= output to wheel 75

Edit: Congrats but also im Not suprised at all that your tweek users say that the New tweek Give More Detailed FFB...The Basics of your tweek is still the same... The Big Difference is you Raised the Masters The rest was just Mix + or - Fy,Fx,Fz,Mz, SOP until it felt right

IMO as i have stated all along when you use Low Masters you are Cutting your FFB Dynamic Range at the Source then trying to amplify the Low FFB signal with Higher RAG/SG... Which it Does but you have still lost the purity of the FFB signals Dynamic Range at the Source--->In Car FFB settings... the intuitive system value is 1.00 and anything 1.00+ Is overdrive IIRC. This was the basis why i kept My tweek settings at 1.00 or below.