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Thread: Dyr_gl PSN's thoughts on pCARS 2

  1. #1
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    Dyr_gl PSN's thoughts on pCARS 2

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMo1vgxA6OQ

    He makes a lot of good points. Ian addressed similar questions so I think chances are good that these issues will be taken care of. Let's remain hopeful.
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    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    There a lot of things that person doesn't understand about tires...
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    WMD Member Alan Dallas's Avatar
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    Who and why should I care about his thoughts?
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    Because he does make a couple of good points, like the AI not struggling on wet races hence making racing under heavy rain conditions pointless; then the intermediate tyres issue too; hard and medium compunds = pointless against softs; and etc many other issues found in pc1.

    That's why it's very important for everyone to have these things fixed in pc2, so the tracklive feature isn't rendered as useless because the tyre model isn't working as expected, specially some compounds

    If tyre model has been fixed, and the different compounds are now worth the use, then the tracklive thing will be an absolute game changer, of course

  5. #5
    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    Everyone should understand that for the time being (i.e. given current home-based processing power), the AI will always have a little different behavior in any condition than the player car. They are not running the exact same tire models due to processing power. The goal is to get them close but there will always be "some" differences.

    Fun fact, during WMD1 when the SETA tire model was introduced, SMS was trying to find the right blend of performance and fidelity of the model. For a test, they increased the fidelity of the model for a build and it brought every PC out there down to a crawl. Having said that, the tire model is pretty complex and as CPU processing continues to grow, they can increase the fidelity of the model to unlock more potential. However, trying to run that level of fidelity for all of the AI cars is just not possible today.
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    Indeed, but making the AI slower on wet on purpose to just have behave more realistic (and more playable against) shouldn't take any cpu resources.

    Everybody knows you can't simulate all cars but just the player without burning any cpu. Then, you can just make it slower on purpose when on wet races (to simulate their struggling against the rain just as player does too) and that's all.

    And what about the compund issues (inters; etc) in pc1?. That's far from being cpu issues. This all must be fixed in pc2 so the tracklive feature is worth it. Otherwise it will be pointless

  7. #7
    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by honespc View Post
    And what about the compund issues (inters; etc) in pc1?. That's far from being cpu issues. This all must be fixed in pc2 so the tracklive feature is worth it. Otherwise it will be pointless
    Some of the "issues" he mentions, as I said, he doesn't understand tires. Yes, there were a handful of "issues" but I do understand why SMS went with a more cautious approach. Sure, everyone wants everything perfect and likely SMS attempted to do too much with pCARS1 which left some areas exposed. However, just because someone can post a video on Youtube doesn't make them an expert (nor right).
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    Quote Originally Posted by honespc View Post
    Indeed, but making the AI slower on wet on purpose to just have behave more realistic (and more playable against) shouldn't take any cpu resources.

    Everybody knows you can't simulate all cars but just the player without burning any cpu. Then, you can just make it slower on purpose when on wet races (to simulate their struggling against the rain just as player does too) and that's all.

    And what about the compund issues (inters; etc) in pc1?. That's far from being cpu issues. This all must be fixed in pc2 so the tracklive feature is worth it. Otherwise it will be pointless
    You should have a look at Ian's Q&A at GT Planet there is some clarification on the work they've being doing on tires...when it comes to different compounds things are looking promising. Fingers crossed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
    Some of the "issues" he mentions, as I said, he doesn't understand tires. Yes, there were a handful of "issues" but I do understand why SMS went with a more cautious approach. Sure, everyone wants everything perfect and likely SMS attempted to do too much with pCARS1 which left some areas exposed. However, just because someone can post a video on Youtube doesn't make them an expert (nor right).
    He's not an expert, but you can still give him credit for correctly pointing out problems that can be fixed, instead of dismissing him outright. Softs are not supposed to be so good that they make all other tires useless. FB Mediums are not supposed to be faster than softs. Wet tires in Clios aren't supposed to be faster when cold, and be at their best when completely worn down (my observation)

    I think he's just concerned because we all want the game to succeed. These issues are just the core that all other features will depend on.

    Ian has said that quality assurance is a much much bigger aspect of production for pCARS2 than pCARS1, so there's reason to be hopeful.
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  10. #10
    GT4 Pilot breyzipp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
    Everyone should understand that for the time being (i.e. given current home-based processing power), the AI will always have a little different behavior in any condition than the player car. They are not running the exact same tire models due to processing power. The goal is to get them close but there will always be "some" differences.

    Fun fact, during WMD1 when the SETA tire model was introduced, SMS was trying to find the right blend of performance and fidelity of the model. For a test, they increased the fidelity of the model for a build and it brought every PC out there down to a crawl. Having said that, the tire model is pretty complex and as CPU processing continues to grow, they can increase the fidelity of the model to unlock more potential. However, trying to run that level of fidelity for all of the AI cars is just not possible today.
    I understand that not every AI driver can behave with the same complexity as the car/tyre/handling model of the player. But as has been said before here, it would be nice to see the AI also suffer from rain races. Also, judging from PCARS1 AI drivers, they never seem to make a mistake or do anything out of the ordinary. Not that the following game is any sort of useful reference for PCARS but in FM6 at least AI drivers occasionally also make mistakes and end up off the track. In PCARS the AI drivers feel a bit sterile and lifeless, they constantly seem to be doing the same thing over and over again. Also, they seem very much glued to the ideal racing line as well, often simply pushing me off the track.

    If for PCARS2 the AI suffers (in their own way) from bad weather / bad track condition, if they feel a bit more alive and "human" (including the occasional error but without making those errors feel scripted as in FM6) and if they give a bit more room to the player instead of pushing us off then I will be a happy singleplayer racer in PC2.
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