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  1. #1
    Superkart Pilot
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    [Post #6] Can someone explain dampers...

    I have tried to read in game explanation about each damper settings... i really dont get it at all.

    Could someone try explain the following

    -Bump stop
    -Slow bump
    -Fast bump
    -Bump transition

    -Slow rebound
    -Fast rebound
    -Rebound transition
    What does each thing do?
    Sry to sound stupid to ask this but english isnt my strong language and i really need some better explanation than ingame covers.
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  2. #2
    GT3 Pilot
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    I am sure blinkngone and others can give us some very nice explanations. Some time ago, I had a go through this (and other videos in the series):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3pn...wlaV423MOhPUiN

    also gives plenty of info and in a visual way as well.
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  3. #3
    GTE Pilot blinkngone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takaii View Post
    I have tried to read in game explanation about each damper settings... i really dont get it at all.



    What does each thing do?
    Sry to sound stupid to ask this but english isnt my strong language and i really need some better explanation than ingame covers.
    They are not stupid questions, although you really need to look at Google/plenty of suspension videos.

    Well first just use Google and put in "bump stops", they are basically rubber/polymers that are on the shocks to balance your cars attitude(when using softer springs/shocks/dampers and rollbars Nascar style).

    What you could do takaii is study up on the suspension questions you have and leave the dampers section alone in game(Jussi has given you these using his calculator) until you have mastered 1st driving, using default loose and stable. Then going into each of the other tuning pages before you try adjusting the damper page.
    The first page to work on would be this.
    Attachment 242566
    Then this page. The reason I have the LSD next is because a quick adjustment here can really help if you are having trouble with your car spinning under braking or acceleration.
    Attachment 242567
    This.
    Attachment 242568
    and finally this.
    Attachment 242569
    Last edited by blinkngone; 12-10-2017 at 11:29.
    Bikes wrecked-77 Suzuki RM125, 78 Honda Elsinore 250, 81 Honda CB900F, 2000 Kawsaki ZX12R(2), 2001 Honda F4I, 2005 Yamaha R1. A bike hasn't been made I couldn't wreck, spectacularly, but I'm retired now.
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  4. #4
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    I copied this from a diffrent forum hope it helps !

    Softer springs = more grip but also more skid = a bit slower. Stiffer springs should make you faster but only if you drive on the limit, if not they'll just make you loose control easier.

    Bump/Rebound:
    Slow (bump/rebound)= your steering input. Low value means that it takes more time for the spring to absorb or rebund giving you more grip or a more stable car over bumps (really depends on track and driving style).
    Fast(Bump/rebound) = feedback from the track, level changes, bumps,curves, same ideea here as above.
    This is what i understand but spring/bump/rebound are one of the hardest thing to set up properly cuz the changes are very small and they generaly show up in better times not feel (that's if you don't change them by more than 2 clicks). If you maxx them out (high/low) tha car will react very diferently.

    Dampers counteract the springs' natural compressing and decompressing by resisting those forces. Dampers do this via hydraulic fluids being pushed through small valves inside the damper while the damper is in motion. A higher damper value equates to greater resistance.

    A wheel's maximum grip level will be achieved when the spring is fully compressed. This is when that wheel has maximum weight being transfered through the suspension, tire, and to the track. In a generic sense that weight equals grip. How quickly or slowly that spring is allowed to fully compress is the job of the damper. Springs may dictate HOW MUCH weight is transferred, dampers dictate HOW and WHEN that weight is transferred.

    The easiest way to begin to understand dampers is in a straight line, under braking or acceleration:

    Under braking, much of the car's weight will shift from the rear of the car to the front. The front springs will compress while the rear springs will decompress (or rebound). The dampers do the same and will compress (front) and decompress (rear). The faster the front springs are allowed to achieve their most-compressed state, the faster the front tires will have maximum grip for that all important braking. A softer compression setting will give the least amount of resistance to the spring compressing, allowing weight to transfer very quickly once the brakes are applied. The rear damper compression setting will have no effect on what happens here, but the rebound will. A greater rebound setting will resist against the rear springs decompressing. If the spring is not allowed to rebound quickly, the rear tires will be somewhat lifted off the ground (exaggerated of course). Softer rebound settings in the rear will allow the rear tires to stay connected with the road and offer more rear-grip during that weight transfer to the front.

    Under straight-line acceleration the complete opposite is happening, with the rear dampers compressing and the front dampers decompressing. Surely you will want maximum grip on the rear tires under acceleration, but the front tires may need grip adjustments to prevent understeer oversteer. You can adjust this condition by adjusting how the rear suspension compresses or how the front suspension rebounds.

    The same philosophy can be applied laterally (side to side) as well. Long sweeping corners that do not involve large braking or accelerating will shift weight to the left and right of the car. How fast you allow that weight to transfer is up to you and can be adjusted via the left and right dampers, but keep in mind how that will also effect your front to rear damping.

    If your car is equipped with fast-damping adjustments, everything above still applies but only when the suspension is in "fast motion". An example of your suspension moving in fast-motion is when you are hopping over curbing, something I like to call "curb smacking". This is when you are shocking the suspension into movement in a very short time frame. Hitting a curb at speed (like you might at Monza, or the final chicane at Magny-Cours) is forcing your suspension to compress or rebound in a much shorter time frame than normal weight transitions. This is where fast-damping comes into the mix
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  5. #5
    GTE Pilot blinkngone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takaii View Post
    I have tried to read in game explanation about each damper settings... i really dont get it at all.



    What does each thing do?
    Sry to sound stupid to ask this but english isnt my strong language and i really need some better explanation than ingame covers.
    Hi takii, English is my only language.
    I am giving you a link to the Project Cars 1 Garage, at the top of that forum there are numerous stickies involving your suspension questions.

    http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/for...Car-Setup-Talk
    Bikes wrecked-77 Suzuki RM125, 78 Honda Elsinore 250, 81 Honda CB900F, 2000 Kawsaki ZX12R(2), 2001 Honda F4I, 2005 Yamaha R1. A bike hasn't been made I couldn't wreck, spectacularly, but I'm retired now.

  6. #6
    Vehicle Technical Lead Casey Ringley's Avatar
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    The big new addition for PC2 in this area is the setting for transition force. This essentially controls the valve which sets when the damper moves from slow rates for bump/rebound to fast rates. What this does is give you better control over the damper tune for what you want out of the setup. (it also lets us get a much closer match to real damper adjustments for many cars) Showing some damper dyno plots from the Clio Cup below as it's a good example matched to real data where the compression damping does rate change at constant transition force while rebound damping changes both the rates and transition force by a large amount.

    Orange line shows increasing bump stiffness of the front damper. Note how the kink in the force line happens at the same vertical position for all settings. So we've gone up 5x in slow bump damping rate (something you would definitely feel in steering response!) but overall force from the damper at typical shaft velocity only goes up by 40-50%, meaning it won't be a huge difference for high speed bumps like kerb strikes and such.
    Say you have a car that handles pretty well overall but you want a bit sharper input from small steering inputs. This would be one way to approach this would be tuning for that situation. Conversely, say you like the initial steering feel but find the car moves too much after that input, the outside front compresses too much and then has to spring back. In this case, you might want to keep rates the same but increase transition force for a damper with the same basic properties while being stiffer overall.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clio-cup-damper-001.gif 
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ID:	242582

    The rebound damping, however, increases the slow rate by almost 9x while also stiffening the blow-off valve that controls bypass flow to the fast damping circuit. You can see that the slope of each segment of the yellow line increase, and the transition knee also rises vertically on the plot significantly from softest to stiffest settings. This side of the damper isn't just changing feel of one particular area but stiffening the whole damper by 150% or more.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clio-cup-damper-002.gif 
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ID:	242583
    Haste Is Slow

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Ringley View Post
    The big new addition for PC2 in this area is the setting for transition force. This essentially controls the valve which sets when the damper moves from slow rates for bump/rebound to fast rates. What this does is give you better control over the damper tune for what you want out of the setup. (it also lets us get a much closer match to real damper adjustments for many cars) Showing some damper dyno plots from the Clio Cup below as it's a good example matched to real data where the compression damping does rate change at constant transition force while rebound damping changes both the rates and transition force by a large amount.

    Orange line shows increasing bump stiffness of the front damper. Note how the kink in the force line happens at the same vertical position for all settings. So we've gone up 5x in slow bump damping rate (something you would definitely feel in steering response!) but overall force from the damper at typical shaft velocity only goes up by 40-50%, meaning it won't be a huge difference for high speed bumps like kerb strikes and such.
    Say you have a car that handles pretty well overall but you want a bit sharper input from small steering inputs. This would be one way to approach this would be tuning for that situation. Conversely, say you like the initial steering feel but find the car moves too much after that input, the outside front compresses too much and then has to spring back. In this case, you might want to keep rates the same but increase transition force for a damper with the same basic properties while being stiffer overall.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clio-cup-damper-001.gif 
Views:	1096 
Size:	88.4 KB 
ID:	242582

    The rebound damping, however, increases the slow rate by almost 9x while also stiffening the blow-off valve that controls bypass flow to the fast damping circuit. You can see that the slope of each segment of the yellow line increase, and the transition knee also rises vertically on the plot significantly from softest to stiffest settings. This side of the damper isn't just changing feel of one particular area but stiffening the whole damper by 150% or more.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clio-cup-damper-002.gif 
Views:	1095 
Size:	89.8 KB 
ID:	242583

    Could you make an easier explanation? What u said looks very important, but it's overmind and i'm not really understanding. Could u do some examples, showing us some practice applications? Like what should happen if i increase the transition force at a gt3 car in a corner. Hope u see this.

  8. #8
    Handling QA Lead Jussi Karjalainen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos Riffel View Post
    Could you make an easier explanation? What u said looks very important, but it's overmind and i'm not really understanding. Could u do some examples, showing us some practice applications? Like what should happen if i increase the transition force at a gt3 car in a corner. Hope u see this.
    This will depend on what the car is doing now (since most cars have the transition in a different spot). Basically increasing the transition force value will usually* increase the overall damping force, especially for cornering, braking, accelerating etc., since what it does is increase the effect of the slow setting, and the slow setting is usually stiffer.

    The best way to visualize this is probably to use my calculator, where you can see the effects of all the settings in graphical form. Links are in my signature.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casey Ringley View Post
    The big new addition for PC2 in this area is the setting for transition force. This essentially controls the valve which sets when the damper moves from slow rates for bump/rebound to fast rates. What this does is give you better control over the damper tune for what you want out of the setup. (it also lets us get a much closer match to real damper adjustments for many cars) Showing some damper dyno plots from the Clio Cup below as it's a good example matched to real data where the compression damping does rate change at constant transition force while rebound damping changes both the rates and transition force by a large amount.

    Orange line shows increasing bump stiffness of the front damper. Note how the kink in the force line happens at the same vertical position for all settings. So we've gone up 5x in slow bump damping rate (something you would definitely feel in steering response!) but overall force from the damper at typical shaft velocity only goes up by 40-50%, meaning it won't be a huge difference for high speed bumps like kerb strikes and such.
    Say you have a car that handles pretty well overall but you want a bit sharper input from small steering inputs. This would be one way to approach this would be tuning for that situation. Conversely, say you like the initial steering feel but find the car moves too much after that input, the outside front compresses too much and then has to spring back. In this case, you might want to keep rates the same but increase transition force for a damper with the same basic properties while being stiffer overall.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clio-cup-damper-001.gif 
Views:	1096 
Size:	88.4 KB 
ID:	242582

    The rebound damping, however, increases the slow rate by almost 9x while also stiffening the blow-off valve that controls bypass flow to the fast damping circuit. You can see that the slope of each segment of the yellow line increase, and the transition knee also rises vertically on the plot significantly from softest to stiffest settings. This side of the damper isn't just changing feel of one particular area but stiffening the whole damper by 150% or more.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	clio-cup-damper-002.gif 
Views:	1095 
Size:	89.8 KB 
ID:	242583
    Congratulations for your rich post. There is some place where i can find the calculator? thanks

  10. #10
    Superkart Pilot Visceral_Syn's Avatar
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    In a nutshell, the fast bump/rebound controls the springs response from the track. the slow bump/rebound controls the springs response from driver input.
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