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Thread: Let's design the ultimate racing simulation game

  1. #201
    Superkart Pilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusN View Post
    Real cars can drift so just mess with that part of the physics so they can't? Good drift physics are a perfect test for a physics engine. Drifts also don't have to be intentional.

    I don't want drift modes/counters/stats, that never interested me one bit. But a (street)car should be able to do it as good in game as it can IRL. It's enjoyable to do once in a while, more so on longer tracks/street circuits(like the Deutschlandring in AC).
    100% right.

    If I lock spool, I should be almost constantly drifting and it should be manageable - but it isn't. Currently only 4x4 cars are drifitng well (and stock Aston Martin DB11 as RWD exception). This indicates there is a gap in physics that cannot handle drift.

    And if a game will be capable of drifting, there should be a separate competition for this. I will definitely drift as from time to time this brings a lot of fresh fun. That said, drift in AC or GT Sport wasn't for me, but drift in NFS Shift 2 ohhhh men it was such fun to catch those perfect lines! And with PC being a spiritual successor of Shift 2, I would expect something similar.

  2. #202
    GT4 Pilot Zaskarspants's Avatar
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    Drift cars are set up with reverse Ackermann geometry so a good drifting SIM would need to include the facility to adjust Ackermann angles. I don't think that is possible in pcars but I don't know about other Sims but it does appear important for max drift realism.

    https://www.wisefab.com/resources/ev...nn-in-drifting
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusN View Post
    Real cars can drift so just mess with that part of the physics so they can't? Good drift physics are a perfect test for a physics engine.
    Of course, I meant drifting as a competition, a normal car drift should be realistically implemented.
    The following user likes this Post: Zinnsash


  4. #204
    LMP2 Pilot hkraft300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnsash View Post
    100% right.

    If I lock spool, I should be almost constantly drifting and it should be manageable - but it isn't.
    Drift = oversteer. Spool diff doesn't guarantee oversteer.
    V8 supercars, for example, are mandated (in real life) with spool diffs. They're not drifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnsash View Post
    Currently only 4x4 cars are drifitng well (and stock Aston Martin DB11 as RWD exception). This indicates there is a gap in physics that cannot handle drift.
    Not necessarily. 4wd cars are seemingly easier to control ie return from a big o/steer angle. With the right combination of throttle and steering you can drift the FA, FC, pretty much any rwd car in the pcars2. It's difficult: "drifting" in real life isn't exactly easy either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaskarspants View Post
    Drift cars are set up with reverse Ackermann geometry so a good drifting SIM would need to include the facility to adjust Ackermann angles. I don't think that is possible in pcars but I don't know about other Sims but it does appear important for max drift realism.

    https://www.wisefab.com/resources/ev...nn-in-drifting
    Not necessary to need to have adjustable ackerman, just that steering geometry needs to be fairly well simulated. Extreme ackerman steering angles do help get those big angles.
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  5. #205
    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaskarspants View Post
    Drift cars are set up with reverse Ackermann geometry so a good drifting SIM would need to include the facility to adjust Ackermann angles. I don't think that is possible in pcars but I don't know about other Sims but it does appear important for max drift realism.

    https://www.wisefab.com/resources/ev...nn-in-drifting
    It's not about "adjusting Ackermann angles", that's just a component (or result) of the steering components (i.e. allowing more steering angle on the cars than normal). The Madness engine already does this but just like a real car, the car's linkage has to support it (i.e. you just can't make a race car do it without changing parts). The drift cars in PC2 do this... Look at the angle of the front wheels:

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    The following 5 users likes this Post: GTsimms, hkraft300, Psychotik, Sankyo, Zaskarspants


  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkraft300 View Post
    Drift = oversteer. Spool diff doesn't guarantee oversteer.
    It helps, and that is the point of it. Most of drift cars have welded differential and as long as it is welded, tires will slide on every turn, always, now just add power and you loose traction and can easily start drifting.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkraft300 View Post
    Not necessarily. 4wd cars are seemingly easier to control ie return from a big o/steer angle. With the right combination of throttle and steering you can drift the FA, FC, pretty much any rwd car in the pcars2. It's difficult: "drifting" in real life isn't exactly easy either.
    This is PC3 forum, and in PC3 it is quite easy to make a bit of a smoke while accelerating on turns, but it is close to impossible to recover once you catch a slide. - except 4x4 cars which are very easy to control. Of course you can drift anything in PC3 with enough of epic skill, but in PC3 drifting/sliding part is just not right. It is much much easier to drift in real with any stock BMW, than it is with any car in PC3.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkraft300 View Post
    Not necessary to need to have adjustable ackerman
    We are DESIGNING ultimate racing game here and adjustable ackerman would be great addition to PC4. This would be one of those small things that I would be excited about. Similar to paying extra for 300HP car to later using it for traveling to work at 50 km/h. Not required but damn I want it and am willing to pay extra.

  7. #207
    WMD Member John Hargreaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinnsash View Post

    We are DESIGNING ultimate racing game here and adjustable ackerman would be great addition to PC4. This would be one of those small things that I would be excited about. Similar to paying extra for 300HP car to later using it for traveling to work at 50 km/h. Not required but damn I want it and am willing to pay extra.
    With you on both points there.
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  8. #208
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    Is there any news about PC4? Now I play online in PC2, I really like it. (thanks to SMS for PC3, which brought back interest in PC2 ) There are confusion about Force Feedback, cars sticking to each other in collisions, as well as strange behavior of some classes (for example, DTM 1991), but overall PC2 is good! And AMS2 too
    Last edited by BorisK; 28-03-2021 at 10:10.
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