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Thread: AI can't plan a pit strategy

  1. #1
    Kart Driver Cumulonimbus's Avatar
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    AI can't plan a pit strategy

    Hey all,

    I know this problem has been adressed previously but those topics are quite some time ago, before some patches. But it still persists...
    So in a 1h-1.5h race I can do with a one stop. For example GT3, with hard tyres. During that stop my tyres are maybe 40-50% worn, and I change them.

    What the AI does:

    Stop about halfway for refueling. NOT changing their tyres, I know this because they gain about 10-12 seconds with that stop.
    Then either:
    - Don't go for a tyre change at all anymore, making me 2-4 seconds per lap faster as the race progresses.
    - Go for a tyre change stop later in the race, making it a two stop for them.

    I race without tyre wear now to make it exciting. It's a real shame!
    Anyone notices the same?

    Cheers and thanks!
    Last edited by Cumulonimbus; 17-01-2021 at 19:52.

  2. #2
    GT5 Pilot kevin kirk's Avatar
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    I always ran with accelerated tire wear. That way they will stop for tires once over every hour without queston.
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  3. #3
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    It doesn't help that the AI doesn't use the same tires as the player. I don't think there's ever been an actual description of how the AI's tires are setup - it goes beyond just a simplified version of the tire model - I don't think they need to bother about softs or hards - there are game design decisions that underlie the AI's tires - which due to the huge number of vehicles and tracks, the permutations are vast - probably part of the reason pcars3 went even more simple with it's tires. Bad decision imo, but that was the design chosen by the devs.

    I did a 1.5 hour GTE race 24hour cycle, and as the track cooled and warmed, my choice of tire was crucial when it came to pace - the softs would overheat during the day, but come into their own come the night - so against the AI, I would struggle in the day, but be much faster at night. I thought they were using hards - so I tried the race again starting on hards - was competitive during the day but the tires were COLD at night, forcing me to pit for softs. The AI meanwhile didn't seem affected by the changing temps.

    So I think the AI must have just one type of simplified tire- neither soft or hard. Who knows, though, honestly. It's always a splinter in my mind, never knowing whether I'm actually driving well, or the AI is nerfed, or the AI is cheating or I just need more practice. Hard to know how one is doing if the AI is, in many real ways, literally playing a different game since the rules are different for them.

    Hopefully next game, the devs recognize that for good, unfake gameplay, the AI tires must be the same as the player - otherwise it will just feel like either the AI is cheating, or we are cheating - killing immersion.
    Last edited by Javaniceday; 26-02-2021 at 16:50.

  4. #4
    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    The main issue with the AI is the fuel. SMS was trying to come up with a relatively easy way to not have the AI all pit at the same time in a long race. They did this by varying the initial AI fuel load.

    Why is this important? This means if you set up a race with the AI where you as the player will end the race on an empty tank, then a good portion of the AI field will likely have to pit since they won't all start with the same fuel level. While this is undesirable, this is what we have to work with so you need to adjust your race lengths to either have everyone pit at least once or not at all.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
    The main issue with the AI is the fuel. SMS was trying to come up with a relatively easy way to not have the AI all pit at the same time in a long race. They did this by varying the initial AI fuel load.

    Why is this important? This means if you set up a race with the AI where you as the player will end the race on an empty tank, then a good portion of the AI field will likely have to pit since they won't all start with the same fuel level. While this is undesirable, this is what we have to work with so you need to adjust your race lengths to either have everyone pit at least once or not at all.
    Doesn't the AI having different tires also play a role?

  6. #6
    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    Doesn't the AI having different tires also play a role?
    Honestly, I am not sure the AI tires really "wear" in the sense of lowering performance like the player tires.
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  7. #7
    GT3 Pilot dault3883's Avatar
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    iv never noticed this problem but i also always have at least one pit stop in the race so if it helps you any adding 1 pit stop at least does eliminate this problem
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  8. #8
    Superkart Pilot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mahjik View Post
    Honestly, I am not sure the AI tires really "wear" in the sense of lowering performance like the player tires.
    wattt? if that's true, that's even more of a problem. I hope whoever their game design person is has learned from the experience of pc2 and pc3, as well as all the other sims. Having AI follow different rules than the player (rubber banding - many other tricks video games in general use to keep the player engaged) might work with arcade racing games, but the point of a sim is to simulate motorsports, and that includes AI. If the AI is literally playing a different game, then racing against them will always feel off.

    To me, it's obvious that if the AI can't have the same level of computational complexity the driver's tires have, then that means the tire complexity needs to be simplified, and let consumer technology catch up to what tire simulation potential can be.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    wattt? if that's true, that's even more of a problem. I hope whoever their game design person is has learned from the experience of pc2 and pc3, as well as all the other sims. Having AI follow different rules than the player (rubber banding - many other tricks video games in general use to keep the player engaged) might work with arcade racing games, but the point of a sim is to simulate motorsports, and that includes AI. If the AI is literally playing a different game, then racing against them will always feel off.

    To me, it's obvious that if the AI can't have the same level of computational complexity the driver's tires have, then that means the tire complexity needs to be simplified, and let consumer technology catch up to what tire simulation potential can be.
    Well, on the other hand, arcade games can get away with using the same physics for player and AI, but the point of a sim is to simulate car behavior and today's computers cannot properly do that for 20+ cars simultaneously. Unfortunately we're still too far away from having AI really feeling like humans in sims or any other type of game really in our PCs/consoles.

  10. #10
    WMD Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javaniceday View Post
    wattt? if that's true, that's even more of a problem. I hope whoever their game design person is has learned from the experience of pc2 and pc3, as well as all the other sims. Having AI follow different rules than the player (rubber banding - many other tricks video games in general use to keep the player engaged) might work with arcade racing games, but the point of a sim is to simulate motorsports, and that includes AI. If the AI is literally playing a different game, then racing against them will always feel off.

    To me, it's obvious that if the AI can't have the same level of computational complexity the driver's tires have, then that means the tire complexity needs to be simplified, and let consumer technology catch up to what tire simulation potential can be.
    All racing titles "fake" the AI to some extent. It's the way all racing titles work. Most developers aren't truthful as to what is really happening. Some titles make it less apparent. If the title has fewer car variants to support, they can make some convincing AI. The more variants to support, the more gaps you see in the AI behavior as it's not feasible to develop AI behavior per car type in a title that supports a high variation of car types.

    If you want full AI:



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